XAU/USD & XAG/USD - Gold & Silver Traders Thread

I'm sorry, I will have to check my PMs. Will certainly get back to you.

OK ALL, THIS IS SERIOUS AND VERY EYE OPENING> ALL NEWBIES MUST WATCH,
More SEASONED TRADERS LIKELY KNOW A LOT ABOUT THIS, YET there are STILL MANY on this forum that REFUSE TO ACCEPT THAT THIS IS THE TRUTH.

Oddly Enough - while I was having an email discussion with a close friend about GOLD and the future of the USD, (Which is on it's way to losing it's spot as "reserve currency, but by all means keep buying! Please do, so I can buy more discounted gold and silver.)

I received this video interview (no talking heads just a voice) and a great one at that.

Courtesy of Ben From Coghlan Capital or "beeb"
Thanks Mate for sending, this really brought me back to my roots.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The odd part is, before I listened to this interview, I wrote to said friend the following in part....
" XTRADE" to "friend"

I remain bullish Gold and I believe that people who only look at spreads, price ladders, and charts with a name attached,
cotton, sugar, corn, pork bellies, copper, gold, silver, platinum, iron, oil, palladium, etc.
Who have never actually shelled out the DOUGH to buy a SINGLE OZT of any precious metal before have no idea exactly what this market is all about.


It is way more than just a "betting game" leave the betting for the fiat currencies.

Do people even realize how much WEIGHT in COPPER ONE standard futures contract is? Let alone gold! it takes a truck to move that weight and it's all raw CU!
what do they think? Do they realize that "short selling" in most or basically every market without an FX broker is either "naked" or a LIE, borrowing stock from someone else on a BET,
or basically welp, insider trading that they got a good tip to DUMP ALL XXX stock by tokyo open before NY.???!!!!!
It's only so simple in FOREX to short because in Reality! YOU ARE SHORT NOTHING!!!! You have to BUY another currency to be SHORT the other! SO you are just EXchanging!
END QOUTE "

http://kingworldnews.com/kingworldne...w_Maguire.html

If you really don't think that GOLD, Silver and PGMs are manipulated you are likely naive or just a fool. Sorry to be so blunt. But sometimes the truth does hurt.
Oh and Currencies? Yeah, manipulated, I mean JEESE! You really think GOVERNMENTS that print money on paper that's worth more than the note will tell you this?

Rant over.

WATCH THE VIDEO.

BTW THE CME NOW ACCEPTS GOLD TO SETTLE FUTURES CONTRACT NOW... But I suppose the USD really has a grip on things. Maybe I should go buy some 10yr T-Bills!

Yes Us economy is doing well but some bobbles are also there, EU is straggling still, China is doing well as well. Gold has entered in to the official bearish zone as on April 12, 2013, today is 15 September, 2013 i think it is time to buy gold if it retrace to 1278-1276 level.

Hi X Trader

I certainly know Gold is manipulated ....just have to look at April this year and see over a two day period roughly a $200 plunge, this certainly is not true fundamentals. Also just have to look at 2008 when Gold was around $ 700 an ounce then we have a high of gold at $1920 three years later. This is not true supply and demand. Gold in my eyes is overvalued based on a smashing bull run in reality since it was ever floated. The problem here people seem to think it just has to go up up up and up. Maybe everyone needs rethink that current price is not the true value ? Maybe our minds have been conditioned based on the past few years of a major increase per ounce and thinking being gold is should be worth more because you either hold it in physical or you are trading it long based on thinking it is worth more than paper money you are using to buy it with . If one also is to look at past wars and depressions Gold was not an item for profit it was an item for stability (think about it) . Gold is now an item unstable and being used for measures of control for the future control and to debase currency's and amalgamate other countries into one currency. Simply this is why the Euro Dollar was created ...Ireland , Greece , Cyprus the list will go on...
The US dollar will more than likely go under and will tie in with a few other counties for a new currency ...they will get bank rolled the vaults will be emptied based on bail out terms and the countries will sell of there assets to privateers ( Bankers) and will be in deficit to the printed paper money for the bail outs that appears to be worthless in everyone's eyes other than the IMF. There will be nothing that stops this as we are all so reliant on the cash in our wallets to trade with every day for our survival. There simply is not enough physical Gold for everyone to go down to the local supermarket to buy your shopping so paper is the measure for trade. The problem is we are all in a century of greed and fear based on media and power hungry people.
Times have changed and conditions have changed and with Forex being a method to manipulate everything on paper that has the roll on effect to physical.

I think you are mistaken me for someone else.

I very rarely close my trades the same day and also never posts once I am in a trade or later exited. Just bias and or sentiment and of course charts showing what I believe price is signaling.

Nothing to gain from disclosing trades and everything to lose.

Feel the same about manipulation talk. That's just me though.

Perhaps I was confused with your trading style, Certainly fine to not post your personal trades.

I just thought you were a shorter term trader I think because you and I were discussing using the weekly to position trade for months at a clip.



Yeah, I haven't been using the manipulation card lately, yet with cable, kiwi, even the Euro is maintaining, the USD falling on days as well as Gold dropping,
makes absolutely no sense to me... I don't like "pegging" Gold to any other instrument too tightly, yet usually there is SOME sort of correlation,
ie: USD Up Gold Down - Riskier currencies up Gold Up USD down, But lately it is just clear the market is being artificially kept at ridiculous lows, especially for
how other markets are trading. I mean another 200 pips and cable will be at 1.60!!!

I also and I have even looked at pages upon pages of inventory logs for GLD and seen the duplicated bar / lot #s!!!
There is no way two people can "have the right" to the same bar.

Even though GLD is not deliverable, COMEX is, and if there was a run on the COMEX or even just Consistent "taking of delivery" of the actual metals by
whomever it may be, the whole thing would blow up. Naked shorts would die, and tons of longs would likely have to be settled in cash! Yikes Imagine that!
Investing in a skid of 100 oz gold bars and getting paid in USD. I would LOSE IT!

There was absolutely no reason for the 38 USD loss that STARTED In the AusAsian session, where the majority of the loss was made.
the price slid right through 1350 without so much as a hesitation...

It will be interesting to see how the price moves in from now till' the winter holidays.

Hey Man,
Welcome! GREAT POST, I will get back to you a bit later in the day on this one!

But the thing is the same can be said for any other commodity that has a paper version, i.e. future or option.

I see nothing wrong.

But even if there is if someone has a problem with the system they should either a) not trade it or b) start their own.

Otherwise talking about it to me, without being able to do something about, is counterproductive.

True, manipulation is multi market deep.

It is helpful to whine and complain about it sometimes!

X

I appreciate the banter about manipulation. As a newbie, I have been caught on a rising or dropping dollar, imagining that it will impact Gold. When it does not, I am left shaking my head. Awareness of market manipulation is crucial for new people to understand driving forces that are less traditional, yet very real in their impact.

I say keep up the "full discussion" of market forces when it applies to to the current market!! We are all the better for it.

It's ok; no need to write back! All's well.

Deliverable gold at all time low -- claims per deliverable ounce at all time high.

Gold up?? like another pair (euro,gbp and ausi)??

gold down http://www.bloomberg.com/quote/XAUUSD:CUR

Actually, that's a misconception many people have. As far as I know, all physically-backed ETFs allow for the delivery of commodity. In this case, here's a quote from the Sprott GLD FAQ:

Unitholders will have the ability, on a monthly basis to redeem their units for physical gold bullion for a redemption price equal to 100% of the NAV of the redeemed units, less redemption and delivery expenses, including:

1. the handling of the notice of redemption
2. the delivery of the physical bullion for units that are being redeemed (estimated at $5 per troy ounce at the time of the prospectus, Feb. 2010 for delivery anywhere within continental US and Canada)
3. and the applicable gold storage in-and-out fees (minimum $50 plus $5 per each additional bar, at the time of the prospectus).

Redemption requests must be for amounts that are at least equivalent to the value of one London Good Delivery bar or an integral multiple thereof, plus applicable expenses. A ''London Good Delivery bar'' weighs between 350 and 430 troy ounces (generally, most bars weigh between 390 and 410 troy ounces). Any fractional amount of redemption proceeds in excess of a London Good Delivery bar or an integral multiple thereof will be paid in cash at a rate equal to 100% of the NAV of such excess amount. For full details including the procedure to redeem units for physical gold bullion, please see page 48 of the prospectus.

This must have changed, yet I will need to look at the actual "SPDR GLD" site,
I remember reading close to the inception of GLD that any and all "contracts" possibly if of a larger size "MAY, be able to settle a PART in Physical Gold"
Otherwise on exit of a position and looking for redemption the "amount of GLD shares owned" which is appx 1/10th of an OZT give or take, "will be settled in USD."

Think about it. Even if it is such that they now offer settlement in "Good delivery" bars is true, which by your post it seems to be as of late, the average as you stated and the most desirable is a 400 ounce (troy) bar with no less than .9950 or at most 4 nines fine .9999.

So if your GLD position is the equivalent of 200 troy ounces physical gold by their method of breakdown and link to the USD, they are not going to cut a 400 ozt gold bar in half and you WILL be settled in Cash.

Furthermore, the point remains the same and I would think it even foolish of largely one of the if not the most synthetic paper market to trade Gold ---- / GLD
/ besides "CFDs" which we know are just "spread bets" and not deliverable, ---- to consider offering delivery on product. If the COMEX is under question of duplicating bars, the scandal will surely fall flat on it's face when people in "GLD" begin to try and take delivery of a product that is simply not there.

This will take some time to unravel, yet when and if it does, the losses and market disruption it will cause will be astronomical, likely sending the OTC or spot price through the ROOF if one can even find any gold to buy.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I remember when silver made it's last "all time high" before appx 50 USD and the whole "Hunt brothers corner attempt" it was around 17 - to about depending on LDN fix or NY spot, 20 USD, then slid all the way to,
7 bucks an ounce (troy). -- I personally spent hours on the phone with dealers and producers - NO ONE HAD ANY SILVER.
The BEST I could do was place a +100 ozt order with a dealer who actually mines and mints it's own silver here in the US.
And to even get a near term delivery date, was SIX MONTHS.

Link for main site:
http://www.spdrgoldshares.com/

Here is some wording from the SPDR "GLD" actual sight.
I am still looking for the part about delivery,

and not all of this info is pleasing, they state the aforementioned price point of 1/10th per ozt of REAL Gold to DECLINE due to it's NAV,
yet say that it is a better and cheaper way to "OWN GOLD" than a physical bullion buy or account.

It's quite a crock actually,

"
HOW TO BUY AND SELL

Gold Shares are listed on the New York Stock Exchange Arca (NYSE Arca Ticker: GLD). Typically, investors will be able buy and sell Gold Shares through a standard brokerage account.

FEES AND EXPENSES
Ongoing Expenses of the Trust

The Trust's estimated ordinary operating expenses are accrued daily and are reflected in the NAV of the Trust. The ordinary operating expenses of the Trust include (1) fees paid to the Sponsor, (2) fees paid to the Trustee, (3) fees paid to the Custodian, (4) fees paid to the Marketing Agent, and (5) various Trust administration fees, including printing and mailing costs, legal and audit fees, registration fees and NYSE Arca listing fees. For the period ending seven years from the date of the Trust Indenture or upon the earlier termination of the Marketing Agent Agreement, if at the end of any month during such period the estimated ordinary expenses of the Trust exceed an amount equal to 0.40% per annum of the daily ANAV of the Trust for such month, the fees payable to the Sponsor and the Marketing Agent from the assets of the Trust for such month will be reduced by the amount of such excess in equal shares up to the amount of their fees.

The ordinary operating expenses of the Trust accrue daily and are reflected in the NAV of the Trust. The Trustee sells gold held by the Trust on an as-needed basis to pay the Trust's expenses. As a result, the amount of gold represented by each share will be reduced over time, from an initial 1/10th of one ounce of gold. Because the expenses of the Trust will be offset by the sale of Trust gold, the amount of gold backing each share (Ounces Per Share) will decrease gradually.

Each share will initially represent 1/10th of one ounce of gold, but this will decline over time. This reduction in ounces per share will be reflected in the NAV of the Trust.

"

More:

""""""""""""""

‡The Sponsor and the Marketing Agent have agreed to reduce the fees payable to them from the assets of the Trust to the extent required so that the estimated ordinary expenses of the Trust do not exceed an amount equal to 0.40% per annum of the daily net asset value. Investors should be aware that if the value of the Trust assets is less than approximately $388 million, the ordinary expenses of the Trust will be accrued at a rate greater than 0.40% per year of the daily ANAV of the Trust even after the Sponsor and the Marketing Agent have completely reduced their combined fees of 0.30% per year of the daily ANAV of the Trust. This amount is based on the estimated ordinary expenses of the Trust.

Neither diversification nor asset allocation ensure profit or guarantee against loss. """""

About the "supposed actual Good Delivery bars the 'fund' has in a vault in London via HSBC"

http://www.spdrgoldshares.com/usa/gold-bar-list/

Still see Nothing here about any shares being able to be settled in actual gold bullion, it actually reads - the site - and tries to convince people this is a
smarter and cheaper way to access the "BULLION" market, Less of course brokerage fees, GLD requirements and such.

Seems to me all they are doing is dissuading people from entering the actual physical market.

Personally I would rather pay a spread, get free shipping and the product delivered to my door.
A kilo fits nicely inside a small US post priority mail box. Same for silver, PT or PD.

An old physical saying: Nothing much for traders, yet still feasible for GLD vs. Physical discussion
"IF YOU
Don't hold it,

YOU,

don't own it."

Ok here is the second scenario for the potential INV Head and Shoulders on the daily,
using the first major spike down as S1 the Head is the same, the neck is slanted down, as of now which is good, and the Second shoulder or S2 is appx the same low as
S1.

Just another potential scenario. Yet, I believe the completion area is larger and just into clustered potential resistance.

We'll see. Looks like the bar is starting "green" for Sunday...