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XAU/USD & XAG/USD - Gold & Silver Traders Thread

  • #21,301
  • Oct 17, 2012 12:56pm Oct 17, 2012 12:56pm
Quoting XTrade
NP

Depends on your lot size. 20 USD swings are nice.

Although I must say I prefer when she moves 50 bucks a day.

--------------------------------------------------------------

On another note, as long as your broker is paying you the correct amount than it really isn't an issue.

Take a look at the link I posted in the last post to you- it explains pip breakdowns and profit using a 10 USD swing for

.01 micro lot
.1 mini lot and
1.0 standard lot.

For instance 20 USD move = 2000 pips using 1.0 standard that would be $2000 USD in...
Yeah I guess I just need to increase the lot size.
  • #21,302
  • Oct 17, 2012 12:59pm Oct 17, 2012 12:59pm
Quoting Kadc
Interesting. I'm shorting from 1.038 as I believe it will bounce either at 1.0385, the 50% retracement of the ~1.06-~1.015 channel it's been in since August, or at 1.04 which, aside from being a psychological level, is intersected by a line connecting major reversals on Apr 4 and Jul 19. My initial target is 1.0325. I'll reverse my position and go long if we pass through then retest 1.0385 or 1.04 as support.

Long aussie from green circle 1.0170

http://www.screencast.com/t/2WaLS1vpWen

beeb
  • #21,303
  • Oct 17, 2012 1:00pm Oct 17, 2012 1:00pm
Quoting Turveyd
$1 move is 1750.00 to 1750.10 on FXCM with it set at 10 so that's 1 pip in FX world, I can micro account it so that's 10cents to.

Pips are calculated down to the 0.01 level so they read 10x's as high as FX which is annoying.

Micro mode smallest I can trade would be 100pips for a $ that's real gold pips so 10 in FX world.


time for another broker for sure.
Thanks T - guess theres no difference really just sounds better if you make 100 pips rather than 1. But if 100 pips is in microlots and the otheer in full contracts there is no difference.

I wondered why one of my brokers gold contracts was $33/pip - now I know.
  • #21,304
  • Oct 17, 2012 1:07pm Oct 17, 2012 1:07pm
Quoting stewrigh
Hi all,
Can I ask you a q - what is the value of a pip with your brokers.

e.g. on mine a $1 move per gold ounce = 1 pip but I saw some on FF reckon that should be 100 pips??
Technically, a pip is the smallest tradeable unit of movement any stock, commodity, or Forex item can make. In the case of Forex, the predominance of discount brokers limiting trades to four decimal places (I can trade to five) has made 100 pips equivalent to a 1¢ move when trading Forex pairs except gold, silver, and Yen pairs where a pip equates to $1 (or whatever the denomination of the paired currency) moves. It took me several months to catch onto why people were so excited about 100 pip moves which I had always considered to be 1000 pip moves.
You can always make money tomorrow provided you don't lose it today.
  • #21,305
  • Oct 17, 2012 1:14pm Oct 17, 2012 1:14pm
Quoting Kadc
Technically, a pip is the smallest tradeable unit of movement any stock, commodity, or Forex item can make. In the case of Forex, the predominance of discount brokers limiting trades to four decimal places (I can trade to five) has made 100 pips equivalent to a 1¢ move when trading Forex pairs except gold, silver, and Yen pairs where a pip equates to $1 (or whatever the denomination of the paired currency) moves. It took me several months to catch onto why people were so excited about [color=Red]100 pip moves which I had always considered to be...
Thats where I was till today except ppl were getting excited about 200 pip moves and on my broker it was 2 - but it's all relative I guess if I'm trading $33 pip.
  • #21,306
  • Oct 17, 2012 1:20pm Oct 17, 2012 1:20pm
What you want to find out is (or look at an open trade)

If 1.00 USD is giving you the following profits:

A. .01 micro lot = .10 cents
B. .1 Mini lot = 1.00 USD
C. 1.0 Standard= 10.00


if this is correct on your end then you are fine.

Or call and ask them to explain their reasoning for pip breakdowns in gold.

Quoting stewrigh
Thanks T - guess theres no difference really just sounds better if you make 100 pips rather than 1. But if 100 pips is in microlots and the otheer in full contracts there is no difference.

I wondered why one of my brokers gold contracts was $33/pip - now I know.
XAU-XAG/USD_Gold n Silver Trader's Thread = Technicals, Fundamentals & News
  • #21,307
  • Oct 17, 2012 1:25pm Oct 17, 2012 1:25pm
Quoting XTrade
What you want to find out is (or look at an open trade)

If 1.00 USD is giving you the following profits:

A. .01 micro lot = .10 cents
B. .1 Mini lot = 1.00 USD
C. 1.0 Standard= 10.00


if this is correct on your end then you are fine.

Or call and ask them to explain their reasoning for pip breakdowns in gold.
Yeah I just came off the phone to them - and it's all good - just me being a dumbass.

Basically $1 = 1 pip but they price it to 1 dec place.
  • #21,308
  • Edited 1:41pm Oct 17, 2012 1:25pm | Edited 1:41pm
Quoting beeb
Long aussie from green circle 1.0170
beeb
Ideally, yes, but I got out around 1.02750 and unfortunately I never got back in. I suppose it would be fair to say I do a lot of contrarian trades, going short when others go long and vice versa, primarily to challenge myself. That's probably not the best rationale, but it's my nature.
You can always make money tomorrow provided you don't lose it today.
  • #21,309
  • Edited 5:11pm Oct 17, 2012 3:06pm | Edited 5:11pm
Quoting Kadc
Ideally, yes, but I got out around 1.02750 and unfortunately I never got back in. I suppose it would be fair to say I do a lot of contrarian trades, going short when others go long and vice versa, primarily to challenge myself. That's probably not the best rationale, but it's my nature.
The great thing about forks is that you can appear to be taking a trade in the middle of nowhere - or so it appears to those not conversant with the methodology....

To those people the circle would be a place to go short not to go long.....

AUD without the forks - http://www.screencast.com/t/y96BYRghlx

With the forks - http://www.screencast.com/t/2WaLS1vpWen

beeb
  • #21,310
  • Oct 17, 2012 4:03pm Oct 17, 2012 4:03pm
Very interesting,

I took the trade based on confirmed support (horizontal) as well as a dip in the USD.

which the fork likely pointed out support as well have to look.

Most likely thought the support would break and she would fall.

I do notice at times an OVERWHELMING amount of people shorting on this forum and buying the USD when it is falling.

It seems like wherever I read everyone is always SHORT.

Some financials you can't short. I think every trader should be forced to trade long only for 6 months live at first.

Think about stocks/ETFs for example, sure you can short many of them yet if the company or fund goes all the way to zero with no bailout or such, then the trade is done. Why not first learn to identify strength and with that you will in turn know on the other end how to identify weakness.
Quoting beeb
The great thing about forks is that you can appear to be taking a trade in the middle of nowhere - or so it appears to those not conversant with the methodology....

To those people the circle would be a place to go short not to go long.....

AUD without the fork - http://www.screencast.com/t/y96BYRghlx

beeb
XAU-XAG/USD_Gold n Silver Trader's Thread = Technicals, Fundamentals & News
  • #21,311
  • Oct 17, 2012 4:28pm Oct 17, 2012 4:28pm
I like 5 decimal with the fifth sort of grayed or smaller on spreads,What I don't like is brokers that have sort of "changed the rules."

A 1 pip move is 1.0001 to 1.0002 to the fourth decimal plain and simple.

They are fractions of a cent.

Simply think of the currency like this to get it.

1.50 or a dollar and 50 cents.

so 1.5000 it would take 1000 pips to make the example 1.60 or 1.6000

Now these brokers step in and try to probably confuse and "game" people with "units" or still calling them pips yet showing in your log you have 1000 pips profit due to the 5th decimal placing when it is really 100

Quoting Kadc
Technically, a pip is the smallest tradeable unit of movement any stock, commodity, or Forex item can make. In the case of Forex, the predominance of discount brokers limiting trades to four decimal places (I can trade to five) has made 100 pips equivalent to a 1¢ move when trading Forex pairs except gold, silver, and Yen pairs where a pip equates to $1 (or whatever the denomination of the paired currency) moves. It took me several months to catch onto why people were so excited about 100 pip moves which I had always considered to be 1000 pip moves....
XAU-XAG/USD_Gold n Silver Trader's Thread = Technicals, Fundamentals & News
  • #21,312
  • Oct 17, 2012 6:23pm Oct 17, 2012 6:23pm
Quoting zusch
I also see a possible reversal pattern on gold. Fridays daily candle was a bearish outside day after Thursday's breakout of last months highs. Friday should have been another green day, but instead a bearish engulf happened. That is very worrisome.

Gold also formed a weekly flying buddah (last weeks range completely outside 5 and 10 EMA). Price closed at just a little bit above the 50% mark of its range forming a noticeable wick. This is a possible reversal signal also.

I have no idea how long this bearish momentum could last, but I would...
Computer problems are solved and now gold seems to be in a weird spot.

The 61.8% retrace of last month ($167.30) was almost hit but bounced. I would have liked to see a stronger up day yesterday than what happened, but for now the monthly hindsight of up is still in tact.

There are only 10 trading sessions left between now and when the monthly candle closes so ask yourself, "Where will the monthly candle close?"
Twitter: @zusch_ -- Preselecting trending pairs, stocks on a weekly basis.
  • #21,313
  • Oct 17, 2012 7:40pm Oct 17, 2012 7:40pm
Quoting XTrade
I like 5 decimal with the fifth sort of grayed or smaller on spreads,What I don't like is brokers that have sort of "changed the rules."

A 1 pip move is 1.0001 to 1.0002 to the fourth decimal plain and simple.

They are fractions of a cent.

Simply think of the currency like this to get it.

1.50 or a dollar and 50 cents.

so 1.5000 it would take 1000 pips to make the example 1.60 or 1.6000

Now these brokers step in and try to probably confuse and "game" people with "units" or still calling them pips yet showing in your log you have 1000...
No, the fifth decimal place is not greyed out and is completely tradeable to me and most people who don't use a discount broker to trade Forex. The definition of a pip I posted has been a defined financial term for decades dating back prior to the advent of electronic trading. Just because it has become popular to misuse the term doesn't mean the definition has changed.
You can always make money tomorrow provided you don't lose it today.
  • #21,314
  • Edited 10:23pm Oct 17, 2012 10:09pm | Edited 10:23pm
Those are simply fractional pips. if that's the case on your broker than fine, all I was trying to articulate were my preferences.


If you want to state going back YEARS, I guarantee you that when this definition of a pip was written there was no fractional pricing.

Also Most brokers don't tell you this but they often dont fill on the fraction on closes or opens they simply round up or round down to the nearest 4th using 5 as the median.

So all in all it's really kinda bullshit - unless you are trading with an ECN or Futures.

none of this mt4 nonsense:

Yet I do understand what you are saying and see the contradiction in even the definition I posted.
Bottom line - not "technically" FX is still new to the retail market and growing, and since the late 70's when the interbank started using pips they were to the 4th not the fifth place.

You can't simply add a decimal and claim the person has 900 more pips on a 100 pip trade when really all they have is a rounded fill using fractional pricing... Thus actually brokers are doing people a favor by calling them units.

"Definition of 'Pip'
The smallest price change that a given exchange rate can make. Since most major currency pairs are priced to four decimal places, the smallest change is that of the last decimal point - for most pairs this is the equivalent of 1/100 of one percent, or one basis point.


Investopedia explains 'Pip'
For example, the smallest move the USD/CAD currency pair can make is $0.0001, or one basis point. The smallest move in a currency does not always need to be equal to one basis point, but this is generally the case with most currency pairs.


Read more: http://www.investopedia.com/terms/p/pip.asp#ixzz29cG9CcSw"

See a pic below for the example right here on FFs market page of the fifth being smaller (in essence grey)

BTW aussie is pushin 0 4 0 0. 0

http://www.forexfactory.com/market.php


Quoting Kadc
No, the fifth decimal place is not greyed out and is completely tradeable to me and most people who don't use a discount broker to trade Forex. The definition of a pip I posted has been a defined financial term for decades dating back prior to the advent of electronic trading. Just because it has become popular to misuse the term doesn't mean the definition has changed.
Attached Image
XAU-XAG/USD_Gold n Silver Trader's Thread = Technicals, Fundamentals & News
  • #21,315
  • Oct 17, 2012 10:12pm Oct 17, 2012 10:12pm
notice the last two of the first FOUR are black? that's because no one really cares about the 5th.. it's just splitting hairs.


You wouldn't be happy calculating pips if you had 7th decimal pricing, nor would you want to even look at a price ladder let alone calculate profit.
XAU-XAG/USD_Gold n Silver Trader's Thread = Technicals, Fundamentals & News
  • #21,316
  • Oct 17, 2012 10:49pm Oct 17, 2012 10:49pm
This is what I mean...

HELLLLOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!
Quoting XTrade

I do notice at times an OVERWHELMING amount of people shorting on this forum and buying the USD when it is falling.

It seems like wherever I read everyone is always SHORT.

Some financials you can't short. I think every trader should be forced to trade long only for 6 months live at first.

Think about stocks/ETFs for example, sure you can short many of them yet if the company or fund goes all the way to zero with no bailout or such, then the trade is done. [b]Why not first...
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: Picture 14.png Size: 43 KB
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XAU-XAG/USD_Gold n Silver Trader's Thread = Technicals, Fundamentals & News
  • #21,317
  • Oct 17, 2012 10:53pm Oct 17, 2012 10:53pm
No especially EXPORT driven country wants a high currency rate, yet it is also good to some.

Believe me the FED is in NO rush to pump up the USD price, we export practically nothing at this sorry state and buy everything like container loads of crap made in China... Mighty convenient for them to keep the yuan pegged... Nor is it even a part of the USDX which in my opinion is outdated and needs an overhaul.

This election will prove interesting, yet still have little to no lasting effect on gold.

XAU-XAG/USD_Gold n Silver Trader's Thread = Technicals, Fundamentals & News
  • #21,318
  • Oct 17, 2012 10:54pm Oct 17, 2012 10:54pm
Quoting XTrade
"Definition of 'Pip'
The smallest price change that a given exchange rate can make. Since most major currency pairs are priced to four decimal places, the smallest change is that of the last decimal point - for most pairs this is the equivalent of 1/100 of one percent, or one basis point.
The term pip is used for more than Forex, but specifically in the Forex markets, since currency pairs can and are traded to the fifth decimal point, that your broker limits you to four doesn't change the fact larger brokers do trade to five.

Quoting XTrade
Investopedia explains 'Pip'
For example, the smallest move the USD/CAD currency pair can make is $0.0001, or one basis point. The smallest move in a currency does not always need to be equal to one basis point, but this is generally the case with most currency pairs.
The smallest move the USD/CAD pair can make is actually 0.00005, a point I can and do trade at, not 0.0001. That $1.25 difference per standard $25,000 lots can negate half the commission at my level of trading, resulting in a difference of up to $100 to my daily bottom line.
You can always make money tomorrow provided you don't lose it today.
  • #21,319
  • Oct 17, 2012 11:13pm Oct 17, 2012 11:13pm
Regardless of his political views, I enjoy Moneychangers commentary.

http://silver-and-gold-prices.goldpr...in-can-it.html
You can always make money tomorrow provided you don't lose it today.
  • #21,320
  • Oct 17, 2012 11:41pm Oct 17, 2012 11:41pm
Two of my brokers (i use 3) do not use price rounding on the spread or the close or open.
only the Mt4 broker does. which is only used for gold due to the fact of the Dodd Frank act, Us here in the US are limited.

Some brokers quote to four others five others five and round.

Either way, it really makes no difference to me.

Except for the way that I learned - 100 pips is 100 pips not 1000.

This is sort of a useless discussion and moot point.

You have way better things to contribute than a discussion about fractions of a cent. I don't really compute your math either.. If you are saying you are trading or making 25k per trade what do you care about a measly buck and a 1/4

But
Quoting Kadc
The term pip is used for more than Forex, but specifically in the Forex markets, since currency pairs can and are traded to the fifth decimal point, that your broker limits you to four doesn't change the fact larger brokers do trade to five.



The smallest move the USD/CAD pair can make is actually 0.00005, a point I can and do trade at, not 0.0001. That $1.25 difference per standard $25,000 lots can negate half the commission at my level of trading, resulting in a difference of up to $100 to my daily bottom line.
XAU-XAG/USD_Gold n Silver Trader's Thread = Technicals, Fundamentals & News
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