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XAU/USD & XAG/USD - Gold & Silver Traders Thread

  • #53,581
  • Oct 23, 2019 2:16pm Oct 23, 2019 2:16pm
Is it possible we have this monthly candle to turn red???????
Extreme gut feeling trader
  • #53,582
  • Oct 23, 2019 3:39pm Oct 23, 2019 3:39pm
Quoting montygoldy
can someone being generous share a hedging technique.......
Only hedge the winning trade, both positions have to be in profit.
"Show me the charts, and I'll tell you the news." Bernard Baruch
  • #53,583
  • Oct 23, 2019 3:41pm Oct 23, 2019 3:41pm
hedging is pure stupiditty to make your broker rich. Either you are short or you are long, not both. It's pure selfdelussion.
MTF PA with indicators = a winning team
  • #53,584
  • Oct 23, 2019 6:16pm Oct 23, 2019 6:16pm
Quoting montygoldy
can someone being generous share a hedging technique.......
The real way to hedge is to put on a new trade that removes some risk aspect. Perhaps you're bearish on gold, but you're worried gold will go up if the US-China trade negotiations fall apart. You could effectively hedge that risk by shorting soybean futures since they're sure to fall in that scenario.
Self-sufficiency is the greatest of all wealth. - Epicurus
  • #53,585
  • Oct 23, 2019 8:10pm Oct 23, 2019 8:10pm
Quoting notyetthere
hedging is pure stupiditty to make your broker rich. Either you are short or you are long, not both. It's pure selfdelussion.
What Ef5 said. notyetthere, I 100% agree with what you said. Actually I agree 110%. It is pretty delusional to go long and short in the same instrument and call it a hedge. That's not a hedge. It's net flat really. You're just paying your broker for the privilege of carrying the positions. That type of trading isn't allowed in the US.

A true hedge as Ef5, the wise one, pointed out is when you are in a position and enter into another position in a different instrument or market in order to counter any moves and limit losses. For example, if I'm allocating X percentage of my portfolio to equities and I believe there's risk of an economic downturn, I could buy gold as a hedge because in an economic downturn gold will rise as investors seek safer investment vehicles.

I felt like I had to respond because you were 100% correct. The traders I know don't even call that type of trading hedging because it's that misleading.

I hope this came across as being with you not against you, because Ef5 above and me, we both agree with your sentiment. The broker is the only one that benefits and that's why they allow it. A good broker will flatten your position instead of making you long and short simultaneously.
Attached Image
We must learn who is gold, and who is gold plated
EventsTrader Live All Time Return: 54.4%
  • #53,586
  • Oct 23, 2019 11:26pm Oct 23, 2019 11:26pm
Quoting montygoldy
Is it possible we have this monthly candle to turn red???????
Plenty of things are coming in last days of the month, it may turn it into red, my wish too or vice versa
P.S. Trade with the discipline of Money Management and Risk Management.
  • #53,587
  • Oct 23, 2019 11:26pm Oct 23, 2019 11:26pm
24/10/19

Morning Traders...

As things stand yesterdays daily candle closed higher than the previous days daily close, but prices were capped inside the Daily sell zone.
Our outlook and plan for the day had been to buy H1 Dips and look to sell any rally that went into the D1 Sell Zone, we managed to get a couple of Buy dip setups from the H1 and took two sell setups from inside the Daily sell zone.
Prices managed to bounce off of the H1 Buy ZOne again during Asias session and have continued to find resistance at the Daily Sell Zone, which has also given the first sell setup.

Outlook for the day will be to:
1. See what London Opening Hour does for bias
2. Look to continue buying dips from the H1
3. Sell the D1 Sell Zone

There is a bit of bearish RSI divergence on the H1 so any Buy dip setups will be managed with conservative stops/trade sizes.


H1: Bullish: Buy Zone:1492.27 -1491.44
H4: Neutral to Bullish: 1490.23 - 1490.76
D1: Bearish:Sell Zone:1494.77 - 1492.17


Intra day Levels of Interest:
Upside
1511.17
1504.65
1500.41
1497.2
1495.19
1493.63

Downside
1491.9
1490.57
1488.71
1486.73
1483.49
1479.27

Posted the Images here
https://www.metalsmine.com/showthrea...2#post12579332
4&1 All Time Profit: $37,496
  • #53,588
  • Edited Oct 24, 2019 12:02am Oct 23, 2019 11:33pm | Edited Oct 24, 2019 12:02am
Quoting montygoldy
can someone being generous share a hedging technique.......
As someone said, hedging is delusional..... but..... that is true if I open a buy and sell instantly at the same price, using the same lot size. Does not make any sense to do that.

However, if you are in a trade and it goes 25-50 pips against you.... you realize the trend probably has changed. You can either:

1) Swallow your pride and close it with a loss..... or......
2) You can hedge it, but with a slightly bigger lot size than the one in DD. The trick with this, is knowing WHEN to do it. If you do this in Asian session or towards end of London/NY, or after a big move etc, you are more likely to go into ping pong ranging, that can get you to margin call quickly.

To know more about the pros and cons of this type of hedging, check out TicTac-Nur's zone recovery thread. (V8 is the stable one if you decide to use the EA, but be warned.....it works perfectly with fx pairs, but messes up with gold, dax etc. I have not figured out how to work it for gold, because of the extra decimals).
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

For those against any type of hedging, here are a few more reasons to do it.

1. Psychological - It stops the pain level from seeing all that draw down (not knowing if the DD will keep getting bigger). Gives time to clear head and figure out where to 'unlock' the hedge. No guarantee you will be profitable, I agree.

2. If you close the losing position, you might not be present to take the new setup for the opposite move. It might have moved too high or low by then, resulting in same draw down position (if you do take it). But with a slightly bigger lot hedging, you are with the 'new trend' until you get to break even or profit..... then close all positions, or only the profitable one and let the 'old one' retrace and then close.

3. Many successful/veteran traders have multiple accounts. The 'main one' is the one with the BIG money and longer term, often taking long hours/days to complete a trade. While waiting for that to mature, they place OPPOSITE trades in smaller accounts during obvious retrace modes.

In effect, they are hedging.... either with similar or smaller lot sizes. I think someone already mentioned here..... hedge only when you are already winning.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

In closing, nothing wrong with hedging, if you know what you are doing. Just know that your risks can multiply out of control.
In other news: A ranger was trapped between a bull and a bear
  • #53,589
  • Oct 23, 2019 11:34pm Oct 23, 2019 11:34pm
Quoting EventsTrader
{quote} What Ef5 said. notyetthere, I 100% agree with what you said. Actually I agree 110%. It is pretty delusional to go long and short in the same instrument and call it a hedge. That's not a hedge. It's net flat really. You're just paying your broker for the privilege of carrying the positions. That type of trading isn't allowed in the US. A true hedge as Ef5, the wise one, pointed out is when you are in a position and enter into another position in a different instrument or market in order to counter any moves and limit losses. For example,...
ET I will have to agree and disagree with you guys to a certain degree...in that you can still trade an instrument two ways and make money from it, for example, i Buy at 1490, price gets to 1495, i closed 50% of that position, move stops to my entry point at 1490 or even 1491 then i open a sell trade at 1495 stops slightly above the 1495 handle...now, if price moves back down toward my buy entries position i wash rinse and repeat the cycle, if it carries on rallying the sell order gets taken out and the Buy trade(of which i have taken partial profits helps absorb the loss that the sell trade incurred) it may not be conventional or maybe the problem is in the wording(hedging) but it is very possible to ride an instrument both ways PROVIDED you mark your levels and entries well and secondly, your position sizes remain consistent.....Just my 2cents worth. Now i am not saying people should begin doing this at a whim,as it does take some time and practice to do.....
4&1 All Time Profit: $37,496
  • #53,590
  • Oct 23, 2019 11:55pm Oct 23, 2019 11:55pm
Quoting MzansiObi
{quote} ET I will have to agree and disagree with you guys to a certain degree...in that you can still trade an instrument two ways and make money from it, for example, i Buy at 1490, price gets to 1495, i closed 50% of that position, move stops to my entry point at 1490 or even 1491 then i open a sell trade at 1495 stops slightly above the 1495 handle...now, if price moves back down toward my buy entries position i wash rinse and repeat the cycle, if it carries on rallying the sell order gets taken out and the Buy trade(of which i have taken partial...
I will defer to you since I've never traded that way. In the US we don't call it hedging, because it doesn't exist.

Most traders don't have the experience you have, so it doesn't work in their favor. That's why a lot of people are so against it. Usually, it's in the brokers favor because traders get burned.

But in your case if it's working for you, then I'm all for it! No hating going on over here. Go MzansiObi! Get that money!
Attached Image
We must learn who is gold, and who is gold plated
EventsTrader Live All Time Return: 54.4%
  • #53,591
  • Oct 24, 2019 12:33am Oct 24, 2019 12:33am
Quoting EventsTrader
{quote} I will defer to you since I've never traded that way. In the US we don't call it hedging, because it doesn't exist. Most traders don't have the experience you have, so it doesn't work in their favor. That's why a lot of people are so against it. Usually, it's in the brokers favor because traders get burned. But in your case if it's working for you, then I'm all for it! No hating going on over here. Go MzansiObi! Get that money! {image}
Lol totally agreed, I too am not for the idea of opening two trades in opposite directions at the same level.....from differing counter levels once the other trades in profit then yes it can work, but one needs to leave some room inbetween them to make some money, the reality is though that it can go horribly wrong if the levels and trades arent taken and managed wisely.....
4&1 All Time Profit: $37,496
  • #53,592
  • Edited 2:00am Oct 24, 2019 1:45am | Edited 2:00am
Euro PMI data - October Preview - Heads up guys! Last month gold took a direction on PMI data and continued a rally through the session. I posted a picture of the chart, along with the EUR impact, and a bunch of info that you might find helpful. If you want to check out my latest preview.

Quoting MzansiObi
{quote} Lol totally agreed, I too am not for the idea of opening two trades in opposite directions at the same level.....from differing counter levels once the other trades in profit then yes it can work, but one needs to leave some room inbetween them to make some money, the reality is though that it can go horribly wrong if the levels and trades arent taken and managed wisely.....
You the man MzansiObi!
We must learn who is gold, and who is gold plated
EventsTrader Live All Time Return: 54.4%
  • #53,593
  • Oct 24, 2019 2:43am Oct 24, 2019 2:43am
covered my short from 92.91 at 00.11, now looking to goo long with a buy stop at 91.30
MTF PA with indicators = a winning team
  • #53,594
  • Oct 24, 2019 3:04am Oct 24, 2019 3:04am
got in at 90.88 due to slippage, targeting 96.20.
MTF PA with indicators = a winning team
  • #53,595
  • Oct 24, 2019 3:18am Oct 24, 2019 3:18am
Quoting Tekin
there is 1.5 hours to rare data of today. and price reached to 1494 i added sell because its under %61.8 (1496.55)
finally i quit all positions in profit. wrong entries made some nervous but its ok

now i will wait till ecb and euro rate data
  • #53,596
  • Oct 24, 2019 3:22am Oct 24, 2019 3:22am
I will enter short position only at fibo levels anymore
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  • #53,597
  • Oct 24, 2019 4:35am Oct 24, 2019 4:35am
reversed to short at 90.91: 5M fackey expecting new lows.
MTF PA with indicators = a winning team
  • #53,598
  • Edited 5:27am Oct 24, 2019 4:59am | Edited 5:27am
D1 is stuck in a tight range for weeks now. Breakout imminent. Downward pressure today. Direction will depend on whether we trade below 1487 or above 1493.
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In other news: A ranger was trapped between a bull and a bear
  • #53,599
  • Oct 24, 2019 6:11am Oct 24, 2019 6:11am
Quoting notyetthere
reversed to short at 90.91: 5M fackey expecting new lows.
got out at 88.73 morning star on the 5M and also had something to eat so better leave things not alone.
Looking for a new short at this moment. EDIT: got that one as I was writing: 5M ib break with the down trend at 90.20
MTF PA with indicators = a winning team
  • #53,600
  • Oct 24, 2019 6:47am Oct 24, 2019 6:47am
Quoting digiff
However, if you are in a trade and it goes 25-50 pips against you.... you realize the trend probably has changed. You can either: 1) Swallow your pride and close it with a loss..... or...... 2) You can hedge it, but with a slightly bigger lot size than the one in DD. The trick with this, is knowing WHEN to do it. If you do this in Asian session or towards end of London/NY, or after a big move etc, you are more likely to go into ping pong ranging, that can get you to margin call quickly. ........ Many successful/veteran traders have multiple accounts....
Some great discussion on hedging. Thank you guys for sharing. Got a little of my learning in today.
If in doubt, paddle out!
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