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Interactive Brokers - experiences and opinions

  • #721
  • Apr 18, 2016 7:49am Apr 18, 2016 7:49am
Yep, that 15m close can often offer up some strange moves with IB. 20-30 tick up/down is not uncommon on the re-open. Often seems to pick off some level as well. Bet IB get more than a fair share of stick from semi-irate customers.

Personally in this day and age it shouldn't happen. Re-booting/maintenance my arse. They put a man on the moon 47 years ago so in this day and age sorting out the problem should in turn be no problem.
Road To Wisdom? To err and err and err again, but less and less and less...
  • #722
  • Apr 18, 2016 7:51am Apr 18, 2016 7:51am
Quoting Calculus
Yep, that 15m close can often offer up some strange moves with IB. 20-30 tick up/down is not uncommon on the re-open. Often seems to pick off some level as well. Bet IB get more than a fair share of stick from semi-irate customers. Personally in this day and age it shouldn't happen. Re-booting/maintenance my arse. They put a man on the moon 47 years ago so in this day and age sorting out the problem should in turn be no problem.
I can't disagree with that, well said.
  • #723
  • Apr 18, 2016 8:33am Apr 18, 2016 8:33am
Quoting FXEZ
{quote} The top chart is cash AUD.USD. Pay attention to the session times (open/close). For IB there is a 15 minute daily maintenance where all products are closed for trading between 5-5:14:59 PM Eastern time, reopening at 5:15 PM. What time does Pepperstone open? My Oanda chart showed a gap but not as large as shown on the IB chart you posted. I think that first bar has bad data. Note the start time of the first and second bars are the same 17:15-17:16. You can delete the bad bar by right clicking on the bar and choosing Remove bar, or edit the...
Thank you so much for the details, FXEZ.
I think the spike was real. Look at the picture below.
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: 2016-04-18_22-06-19.png Size: 92 KB

Pepperstone opens at GMT 2:00 and there was no huge spike (If it had, I would have closed their account..)

I opened AUD but it looks still not as liquid as Forex (1M shown below. Looks quite awful...):
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: 2016-04-18_22-17-23.png Size: 69 KB


It seems trading futures using TWS is 100 times more complicated than MT4...
Do you think trading currency futures better than spot forex? I know there are never ending debates about which one's better, but I want to hear about your opinion. I became interested in currency futures after reading this link: http://www.forexpeacearmy.com/commun...-market.14300/.

Thanks,
Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication - Leonardo da Vinci
  • #724
  • Apr 18, 2016 9:08am Apr 18, 2016 9:08am
Futures are are sometimes better than spot, other times not. Here are 4 problems with them -

 

  1. Their contract size can be too large for some traders and not flexible, ie in the Euro you can only trade in blocks of $125k so you can't trade for example, $200k
  2. The data, at the beginning of the listing of a month, say Jun, there is always going to be a discount/premium to spot which will converge going into the expiry of the Jun contract. So if you use spot for charting (more action on the spot chart) you'll always have to take into account the difference, it's not a big problem but just another thing to think about
  3. Only a few crosses are listed so no EUR-AUD for example, and
  4. Some of the futures are listed the wrong way around so instead of USD-CAD it's CAD-USD which can again mess with charts because you get a long trade on Spot but you have to short futures

Futures have a role to play, just not all the time. Where they really excel is for longer term positions, then a lot cheaper than Spot to hold a position re the roll etc.

Road To Wisdom? To err and err and err again, but less and less and less...
  • #725
  • Apr 18, 2016 9:10am Apr 18, 2016 9:10am
And as far a TWS being a load of crap that's true. But there are some pretty good order entry add-ons, I use Button Trader and it's excellent, really quick and slick to enter all sorts of orders, many can be programmed up. If one is a scalper BT is a must (or similar).
Road To Wisdom? To err and err and err again, but less and less and less...
  • #726
  • Apr 18, 2016 9:20am Apr 18, 2016 9:20am
Quoting heispark
{quote} Thank you so much for the details, FXEZ. I think the spike was real. Look at the picture below.
Hmm that's an interesting chart level. You can check to see if prices were actually there by right clicking on a bar on the chart and selecting "Time and Sales." A window will pop up allowing you to see all the transactions and price changes during that time. I didn't see that spike's prices on T&S so assumed that the charting data was off in conjunction with my own data.

Quote
I opened AUD but it looks still not as liquid as Forex (1M shown below. Looks quite awful...):

The thing to keep in mind with futures charts is that futures can display actual volume transacted while FX cash only has bid/ask prices. I'm guessing that the chart you posted is displaying transactions rather than the usual bid/ask high/low prices during a period as is commonly done with FX cash charts. This may be why it appears so disjointed. But in fact the futures market's bid/ask prices move right along with the FX cash's bid/ask price moves with some minor discrepancies.

From chart settings under "What to show" change from Trades to Midpoint or Bid/Ask. Bid/ask is probably most like FX cash but for some annoying reason it just shows up in white. I generally use "Midpoint" when I look at (not very often) IB's charts. Others who use this charting more may have better suggestions.

To gauge the liquidity of futures/cash you might try putting on some demo trades on both and seeing how they differ / are the same. The IB cash is priced very aggressively in terms of b/a cost and trades in smaller denominations than the futures (min tick 0.0001). But min trade size on IB cash is generally $25K USD and commissions are high at that level of trading compared to trading $100K+. As Calculus mentioned, swap cost on cash may be expensive on IB so if you trade longer term positions, the futures may be a better deal in terms of cost.

The IB demo provides a fairly decent way to test out these differences. One thing I've noticed though is that the demo fill algo is a bit messed up - price can trade through it but no fill. This doesn't happen on live!
  • #727
  • Apr 18, 2016 9:56am Apr 18, 2016 9:56am
Quoting heispark
{quote} Do you think trading currency futures better than spot forex? I know there are never ending debates about which one's better, but I want to hear about your opinion. I became interested in currency futures after reading this link: http://www.forexpeacearmy.com/commun...-market.14300/. Thanks,
There are plusses/minuses for each. The points made on that link above are good things to think about. Safety of capital is no small thing - that's one in favor for IB. Central clearing in futures is generally safer than fx cash because it is pooled risk vs individual risk. But the same clearing members are often the same counterparties on the other end of a cash fx trade. For me futures vs cash FX comes down to cost in most cases but other factors weigh in.

The spread on IB cash on average is smaller than the spread on the futures (large contract). This makes sense because of minimum tick size on futures is 1 pip so spread shifts from 1-2 pips when price moves up/down vs. smaller increment of 1 pippette on cash. But generally when it is stable the cash is tighter in spread. That said there are also commissions so I suggest placing some demo trades on both to see what the costs are in terms of commissions for comparison purposes with different trade sizes on both instruments. Then there are the swap charges which tend to add up on cash, vs the premium/discount decay on futures which tends to not be as noticeable as swap.

Cash has more flexibility in terms of how many units to trade - except at really small sizes (less than 25K USD) in which case the futures micro at 10K multiplier may be a lower cost alternative. Trading smaller lots on IB cash they add 2-4 pips of extra spread as it is executed on Ideal exchange but the prices aren't displayed any more, so watch out! These small sizes are intended for currency conversion rather than currency trading.

Futures are traded on a central exchange in Chicago, IL. Cash is traded on IB's electronic IdealPro exchange in New Jersey consisting of many banks offering/bidding and is a composite quote. I can't recommend one over the other but flexibility in contract sizes also plays in for me so I prefer the cash for that reason and for the lower total cost per trade (with 100K+ transaction size).

Futures generally just have USD pairs. RY is the symbol for EUR/JPY futures on IB. Its spread/depth isn't competitive vs. the cash spread, particularly when price is ripping. But most other crosses don't have futures symbols that are liquid/active and using two futures contracts to create a synthetic cross is iffy because of the non-uniform contract sizes and the double commission/execution cost. Anyway, I suggest you experiment and make up your own mind based on the sizes/symbols you trade.
  • #728
  • Apr 18, 2016 10:16am Apr 18, 2016 10:16am
Quoting FXEZ
{quote} Hmm that's an interesting chart level. You can check to see if prices were actually there by right clicking on a bar on the chart and selecting "Time and Sales." A window will pop up allowing you to see all the transactions and price changes during that time.
I attached screenshot. Yes, it's crap....
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: 2016-04-19_0-23-33.png Size: 66 KB
Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication - Leonardo da Vinci
  • #729
  • Apr 18, 2016 10:28am Apr 18, 2016 10:28am
Quoting FXEZ
{quote} Hmm that's an interesting chart level. You can check to see if prices were actually there by right clicking on a bar on the chart and selecting "Time and Sales." A window will pop up allowing you to see all the transactions and price changes during that time. I didn't see that spike's prices on T&S so assumed that the charting data was off in conjunction with my own data. {quote} The thing to keep in mind with futures charts is that futures can display actual volume transacted while FX cash only has bid/ask prices. I'm guessing that the...
FXEZ and Caculus, thank you so much for all the details. It really helped me a lot. As I often trade high ADR minor pairs such as EN, EA, GA, GC,..etc, I think I better stick to spot. Anyway, I learned a lot about futures. I appreciate that!
Thanks,
Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication - Leonardo da Vinci
  • #730
  • Apr 18, 2016 7:16pm Apr 18, 2016 7:16pm
Hi Guys,

I have noticed a few comments about Interactive Brokers liquidity especially the recent Swiss event. I survived with another broker but don't think I would have survived with IB given their 0.35849 low. Other brokers have not had such draw downs and so if trading with IB you would have lost even more money due to their liquidity. Any ideas?

Images attached showing IB's liquidity - NZD.CHF & EUR.USD
Attached Image(s) (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: NZDCHF.png Size: 98 KB
Click to Enlarge Name: EURUSD.png Size: 101 KB
  • #731
  • Apr 18, 2016 7:27pm Apr 18, 2016 7:27pm
IB lost a cool 120 million with the SNB incident. Negative client balances they couldnt collect. But according to Peterffy 99% of the losses occured in futures, not spot. And the bulk of the losses were only 4 clients too.
  • #732
  • Apr 19, 2016 6:13am Apr 19, 2016 6:13am
Quoting Qw3rty
Any ideas? Images attached showing IB's liquidity - NZD.CHF & EUR.USD {image} {image}
It's hard to judge a broker on the Swiss debacle (unless they're a complete bucket shop). The cold hard reality is people who lost money only had themselves to blame as financial history proves it's just a matter of time before a peg brakes. It was therefore naïve to think one could play the long side, put a stop at the peg level (or just below) and get out with a manageable loss. Sure, maybe that could have happened but the risk is very high as the case proved. I'm not having a go at you Qwert, just stating the facts.

Plus with so many markets to trade, why trade the Swiss in such circumstances?

IB is an excellent broker for FX (not though the cheapest), it's also probably the biggest broker in the world with probably the best technical infrastructure for managing risk. Plus, and this really is the most important point about them - they're run by Peterffy who a) is a long time trader, and more importantly, an options trader so he will have forgotten more about risk than most brokers know and understand. He also I believe has 80% or so of his wealth tied up in IB shares.

Conclusion: Unless a sudden meteorite hits earth (where we only have 20min notice) it's hard to believe that IB as a firm is a financial risk to any of its client deposits.

IB is therefore one big Blue Chip broker and there aren't many of them around.

PS. IB's share price is also an excellent barometer of the firm's financial strength. If the firm ever gets into real trouble that will be reflected in the share price before most people know (including me). So put in an alarm at $13 and if the stock hits that, get concerned if you have a big deposit with them.
Road To Wisdom? To err and err and err again, but less and less and less...
  • #733
  • Apr 19, 2016 8:06am Apr 19, 2016 8:06am
Quoting heispark
I am new to IB TWS. I saw a huge spike down in AU in demo account. Is this real? I don't see it in Pepperstone live account.... (1H) {image} {image}
Typical IB, so they make you hit your stop
  • #734
  • Apr 21, 2016 12:49am Apr 21, 2016 12:49am
Quoting Calculus
{quote} It's hard to judge a broker on the Swiss debacle (unless they're a complete bucket shop). The cold hard reality is people who lost money only had themselves to blame as financial history proves it's just a matter of time before a peg brakes. It was therefore nave to think one could play the long side, put a stop at the peg level (or just below) and get out with a manageable loss. Sure, maybe that could have happened but the risk is very high as the case proved. I'm not having a go at you Qwert, just stating the facts. Plus with so many markets...
Thanks for the information, this actually makes sense. Still a bit unnerving to think that stops could be hit more with IB with the liquidity but then again so can profits. I've decided to give them a go since I already use IB for stocks so one single account makes managing trading easy.
  • #735
  • Apr 21, 2016 4:07am Apr 21, 2016 4:07am
Give them a shot Qwert I think you'll like them. If you're short term trading get a demo of both Button Trader and Bracket Trader. Button Trader is the more expensive and it takes time to learn but it's so slick in putting orders in and working them. Bracket T is cheaper, I don't have any experience with that program but anything is better than TWS for shorter term trading. Longer term TWS is fine when time is not of an essence.

If you're in the UK also consider ProSpreads, they're a spread betting broker that connects to the exchanges so it's no different than having a regular account at a broker. Their order entry software is pretty good although their DOM is moving due to the TT patent, a moving DOM makes it easy to put the wrong levels in when entering an order especially in a fast moving market. Nothing Prospreads can do unless they pay up. However, Prospreads can offer clients Trading Technologies if that investment makes sense to them.

Prospreads only at present offer futures on FX, they used to offer Spot but no more. Apparently spot will be listed soon but they've been saying that for several months now.
Road To Wisdom? To err and err and err again, but less and less and less...
  • #736
  • Apr 22, 2016 2:26am Apr 22, 2016 2:26am
IB still has a 1:50 leverage on majors? Oanda showed a good examle when they hiked leverage some time ago. Gives more flexibility to small guys.
  • #737
  • Apr 26, 2016 4:28am Apr 26, 2016 4:28am
Quoting Calculus
Give them a shot Qwert I think you'll like them. If you're short term trading get a demo of both Button Trader and Bracket Trader. Button Trader is the more expensive and it takes time to learn but it's so slick in putting orders in and working them. Bracket T is cheaper, I don't have any experience with that program but anything is better than TWS for shorter term trading. Longer term TWS is fine when time is not of an essence. If you're in the UK also consider ProSpreads, they're a spread betting broker that connects to the exchanges so it's no...
Everything has been going well until today. I have 4 trades open and one trade closed today at the profit target set yet IB reflects it as a loss. Upon further inspection and still trying to wrap my head around TWS (thank goodness for Classic TWS) I have realised it did not close the trade in the sequence I opened it. In other words should the other 3 trades close I will be in the positive and everything will make sense as calculated. I think it has something to do with LIFO or FIFO (can I set it to LIFO for Forex trading?). Is it possible to close each trade in the profit targets set? or is it possible to view and close each trade separately?

Thanks for the help
  • #738
  • Apr 26, 2016 5:41am Apr 26, 2016 5:41am
Quoting Mitbrad
IB still has a 1:50 leverage on majors? Oanda showed a good examle when they hiked leverage some time ago. Gives more flexibility to small guys.

cant believe , cant believe , don't believe , don't believe , but people still do it
people leave, but this thread will go on for ever
  • #739
  • Apr 26, 2016 7:51am Apr 26, 2016 7:51am
Quoting Qw3rty
{quote} Is it possible to close each trade in the profit targets set? or is it possible to view and close each trade separately? Thanks for the help
Qwert, can't help you there because I don't know. As I said I use Button Trader so I can manage each trade independently regardless of what happens behind the scenes with the IB statement. For example I can go long EUR-USD and then open a short against that trade (IB will have me flat), in fact I can open 20 longs at different prices, and 20 shorts at different prices and all positions are open on Button Trader but again IB will have me flat (assuming all trades are for the same amount). Or I can open 20 long trades all with different amounts and 20 short trades with different amounts and have 40 open positions according to Button Trader whereas with the IB statement I'll only have one position which will either be long or short depending on which side has the greater amount.

You have to love Button Trader.
Road To Wisdom? To err and err and err again, but less and less and less...
  • #740
  • May 2, 2016 12:53am May 2, 2016 12:53am
Just done my first third party withdrawal from IB. Bloody hell, what a drama! It was only EUR200 to a bank in Barcelona, but I can't believe the number of security hoops I had to jump through before they would authorise it. Really not sure if this is a good thing or not

So, if you're planning on doing any third party withdrawals with IB then give yourself plenty of time... and patience!
You reap what you sow.
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