FXCM Discussion

DO YOU MEAN THEY HAVE A VILLA for DD?
OR A BIG TOWER, WITH 987 ft. HIGHT?
OR SKY-RUBBER ?

they tell me the truth when they say they do not have DD room. yes it is not a room, it is a big VILLA.

Some jokes to alleviate topic.

Hi Jason,

How do I switch to the new FXCM-USDReal09 server? Just connect my MT4 to it directly or I need to take extra steps?

Thanks,
LittleArt

Guys/Gals, what is the problem, if you know how to trade, you will come ahead regardless of MM or STP/ECN.
If you are not happy with FXCM/OANDA, just move away to other Forex brokers either in US or Offshore. not a biggie.
Don't whine about what you can not control.

Huh ?

assume your goal, multi-millions!
it is simple question to say this is a respectful broker or not: Are they will be happy when you gain in continuous way millions of dollars?
if they are happy with this, they are good brokers even though their spread on eurusd is 50 pips, not only 2 pips with bad support.

If the goal is millions, you should find other alternatives. IMO, the max one can go with Retail Brokers is 250K

I have tried contacting fxcm and tried to ask them for help but I can't get anywhere.
I'm trying to understand why my standard account with fxcm UK which is on non dealing desk have spreads which are much higher than what they advertise on their website. What I have seems to be all inclusive pricing with eur/usd spread 2.5 but even if i check eur/usd their all inclusive pricing on the mini is only 1.4-1.5 pips. If I calculated their spread+comission model then it is still similar with their all in price of 1.5 pips. I asked them why my spreads are higher and I want to have the same spread pricing. I thought since I have all in pricing I should switch to spread+ comission to have lower spreads.
This screenshot is taken on Monday, server time (I think it's NY time 4.58 am)






Last Friday I chat with their representative:
FXCM - Joshua:
Thank you
You have the standard account
Me:
ok, and my account is on non dealing desk ?
fx leverage 100:1?
i just want to confirm these
FXCM - Joshua:
those are the correct settings
Me:
for spreads I have the all in pricing?
FXCM - Joshua:
that is correct
you have the spreadbetting pricing
but you are on the NDD model

When I ask him about my spreads he was also surprised and suggested that they will investigate
Me:
see that's what im saying on normal days my all in spread betting spread is 2.8
instead of 1.4
i don;t know how is this so
FXCM - Joshua:
on which pair?
Me:
eurUSD
the very same pair
that's why when i look at that comission + spread it's so low i want to change that
FXCM - Joshua:
we will have to follow up with you when trading is reopened so we can double check the spreads you are getting with the live market spreads
Me:
if the all in spread is 1.4 i would not change
look this was a long time happening
FXCM - Joshua:
if there is a mistake with the account setting, we will be able to address this when trading is opened again
we will certainly investigate this
on your behalf
Me:
so who should i contact to follow up on this?
FXCM - Joshua:
we will contact you

I initiated request to switch to spread+comission model and was told:
Thank you for your email.If you can provide the proof of resident of United Kingdom, you can open the low spread with commission account. Thank you!

I asked via live chat under different name Andreas to ask their rep if UK residency is needed and the answer is no:




So bottom line is why I can't get the same pricing as what FXCM advertised? and Why I was told UK residency is needed by one person but was told not necessary by other? This account was opened long time ago with FXCM UK. All I want to get is the same spread

Unless there's a clear explanation why i'm charged a whole pip higher than their advertisement this looks like a price discrimination!
I was trading with FXCM since 2001 and I had several accounts in the past

Is there anyone ever have the spreads like I have?

I was told by FXCM rep that FXCM only recently introduced reduced spread ( i assume about 1.5 pips for all in pricing or about 0.4 for the comission based) . I asked since when and the person could not answer. Could some other traders please tell me since when have you been trading with FXCM with 1.5 pips all in pricing or 0.4 pips comission based? I ask because some month I traded about 40m GBP/CAD, just one pip additional spread eat up about 4k of my profit and added to my losses. Could someone reply? much appreciated!

Both FXCM UK and FXCM US offer you the choice of either a Mini account ($50 minimum, DD execution) or a Standard account (2k minimum, NDD execution): http://bit.ly/1Z9W5BR

It's good you learned the difference between these execution models. FXCM believes the NDD model is the most fair and transparent to provide to traders which is why we have offered it to our clients since 2006. That was when we were first able to convince liquidity providers to offset individual client orders as small as one mini lot. In 2012, we extended our NDD forex execution to include micro lot orders.

As others here have rightly pointed out, the SNB flash crash last year proved FXCM provides genuine NDD execution: http://www.forexfactory.com/showthre...23#post8130023

Below is an excerpt from an interview with Finance Magnates our CEO Drew Niv did after the historic event:

At the time of the SNB announcement over 3,000 FXCM clients held slightly over $1 billion in open positions on EUR/CHF. Those same clients held approximately $80 million of collateral in their accounts. As you know this was the largest move of a major currency since currencies started floating 1971.

The EUR/CHF move was 44 standard deviation moves, while most risk management systems only contemplate 3-6 standard deviations. The moved wiped out those clients account equity as well as generated negative equity balances owed to FXCM of over $225 million. We believe that the FXCM system operated properly during this event.

The caveat of our no dealing-desk execution system is that traders are offset one for one with a liquidity provider. When a client entered a EUR/CHF trade with FXCM, FXCM Inc. had an identical trade with our liquidity providers. During the historic move, liquidity became extremely scarce and shallow, which affected execution prices. This liquidity issue resulted in some clients having a negative balance.

While clients could not cover their margin call with us we still had to cover the same margin call with our banks. When a client profits in the trade FXCM gives the profits to the customer, however, when the client is not profitable on that trade FXCM Inc. ends up having to pay the liquidity provider.

FXCM ended with a regulatory capital shortfall. Accordingly, FXCM needed to get a loan to cover this balance, which it did. For anyone that still thinks FXCM is running an FX dealing desk, we have now demonstrated that such is not the case.

It's not an act. At FXCM, we take great pride in giving traders excellent customer service and execution.

While we offer a DD option for Mini accounts ($50 opening minimum), FXCM provides No Dealing Desk (NDD) forex execution for all Standard accounts (2k minimum) and Active Trader accounts (25k minimum). On the NDD model, we immediately offset each of your orders one-for-one with the best prices from competing liquidity providers: http://bit.ly/1mbpmtH

That means FXCM doesn't profit from your losses or lose from your profits. Instead, we profit from your trading volume by charging you a commission. Therefore, FXCM wants you to be profitable, so you can trade more with us.

Hi LittleArt,

We can switch your MT4 account to server FXCM-USDReal09 whose charts reflect the raw FX spreads of our NDD pricing if you complete the form below:

1. MT4 Chart Update for FXCM UK Clients
2. MT4 Chart Update for FXCM US Clients

On our NDD model, FXCM profits from your trading volume, not your losses. And we don't lose from your profits. Therefore, FXCM wants you to be profitable, so you can trade more with us.

FXCM has several options available for accounts at and above $1 million. We offer a Custodial Trust account through Bank of America for an added layer of safety. The clients funds are put in a separate account that is opened as FXCM FBO Client Name, and clients receive a statement from BofA monthly showing their funds.

Accounts in excess of $1 million will often have additional or different settings than traditional "retail trading accounts". They will need to work with the Private Client Group to determine the appropriate commission setting, along with the NOP settings for evenings and weekends. NOP is Net Open Positions. Due to the fact that larger accounts can take out significantly larger positions, accounts may have limitations imposed on them for size held over the weekend, going into potentially volatile news events or through the less liquid hours of the trading day. NOP and commissions are customized based on the pairs an account trades, duration of trades, margin requested (above minimum required) and platform/API utilized for sending orders to FXCM.

Note: There is a point where depositing funds can be cost prohibitive or where the trader wishes to have a portion of those funds still available for other ventures. In this instance, clients will look to the Prime of Prime service offered through FXCM Pro. In these cases, FXCM Pro extends a credit line to traders who can then access and trade FX without depositing all of their money in a retail margin account.

Hi Fx882,

I'd be happy to check your account settings for you. Without having more details, I can't know for certain, but it could be you're trading on all inclusive spreads with no commissions and/or you're trading under an introducing broker who's charging you a markup on the spread for some additional service they're providing you.

Please send me a private message confirming the email address we have on file for your account, and I will use that information to follow up for you.

Thanks,
Jason

Hi Jason, I opened my account directly with FXCM UK, there is no introducing broker since 2011. Just few hours ago I tried again to make the change and eventually got it the person was surprised that i was charged 2.5 spread on eur.usd and seconds after that I was logged out and given the new pricing model.


I believe for brokers they have fiduciary duty to their client and per FSA regulation to make sure the client have best execution. This clearly is not the case as I am charged spread which is outside of what is considered normal and I was not given transparency regarding spreads in my account.

" The application of the best execution obligations is determined by whether the execution of the clients order can be seen as truly done on behalf of the client. This is a question of fact based on whether a client legitimately relies on a firm to protect his or her interests in relation to particular elements of the transaction that may be affected by the choices the firm makes when it executes the order."

"Reliance and price transparency: In obtaining best execution for the client, firms should consider a number of factors, including whether:
Best execution where price transparency to clients may be poor (for example, when trading as principal) can best be achieved by using public reference prices and disclosing a methodology for calculating fees and charges (or a ‘mark-up’ or ‘mark-down’)."


http://www.fca.org.uk/static/documen...t-watch-45.pdf


I had sent you a PM with my account detail so that you can check what was my previous setting. I suppose I had that setting for a long time since I opened in 2011 so it is very costly for me.
So here's some questions I hope to get answer:
1. I have been asking what was that additional 1 pip and never got an answer from fxcm. So I want to clarify what is that additional charge?
2, Since when did I have that setting?
3. Of course if the setting had been wrong, I would like to have this rectified i.e reimburse me for that incorrect pricing.


These were my chat with your rep:
Me:
no it is not your typical all in spread in this case is 1.4
not 2.5
I did not realize the differene were so huge untill i calculated recently
there were month where I traded GBP CAD for close to 40 million in a month that alone could eat about 4k with 1pip taken from my trades
but what is the source of that 1 pip difference? that is what I also want to kow
*know
FXCM - Mark L:
It is based on liquidity available at the time. A higher spread means there is less trading going on
Me:
sure, that i can understand but even at times right now the spread in eur usd is 2.6 pips vs 0.4 in the comission model
sure I need to ad 1 pip to that 1.4 but then 2.6 vs 1.4?? where is that coming from?
I mean add 1 pip to 0.4 with ttoal 1.4
here's now in my trading station
Symbol Sell Buy Spread Amount High Low Roll S Roll B Pip Cost MMR Time EUR/USD 1.12394 1.12420 2.6 1 1.12861 1.12343 0.18 -0.39 0.10 13.00 13:04:31
here's from the demo account with comission
EUR/USD 1.12390 1.12392 0.2 1 1.12850 1.12354 0.13 -0.28 0.06 GBP per unit round turn 0.07 9.00 17:04:46
you see what i'm saying? it's 2.6 vs 0.2 even
FXCM - Mark L:
You're getting 2.5 spreads on your live account?
Me:
yes
that is why i am shocked
and this is now during normal time
that's why this is excessively high
i did not realize this until last week when I start calculating the spreads between comission and all in
that's why i keep wondering where is that 1 extra pip come from ???
and all this time i had been trading with this setting
i just had my account logged out
what's happening?
FXCM - Mark L:
We transitioned you to the low spread + commission model
If you have further questions or concerns please do not hesitate to contact us.
Me:
no, then what about the extra spreads that had been charged to my trades before?
what was that extra charge?
if it was a mistake then I want this to be investigated for fairness sake
FXCM - Mark L:
We recently began offering lower spreads to clients and have been transitioning clients to this new system
Me:
recently?
when?
FXCM - Mark L:
I'm not sure, but I do now that your account is set to low spreads no and you no longer have any reason to be concerned
Me:
what? FXCM need to investigate when this mispricing had been happening and fix this mistake
clearly my past pricing were completely wrong it was not even comparable to your all in pricing
FXCM - Mark L:
Ok. I'll put in a case for you amd we'll get back to you shortly
Me:
when approximately?
FXCM - Mark L:
When we review the situation
Me:
can you give a clearer answer? a timeline?
because I am recording this on my screen including the time where FXCM suddenly moved me to different pricing model
FXCM - Mark L:
I cannot. I do not know how long it will take to review this particular situation
Me:
I hope FXCM know that this is a serious issue
that my account had been priced wrongly for a long time
FXCM - Mark L:
Sure. If you have further questions or concerns please do not hesitate to contact us.



One more question, could you confirm if there's a case opened to investigate as per my discussion with Mark L?

Hi Jason,
How can I get more info on FXCM Pro and Custodian Accounts?

To FXCM: If this is an accurate transcript without omissions or errors the question arises → why was the client not given a case number against the promised case submit by FXCM support ? This is standard procedure with any professional and ethical organization.

Thanks Phylo, I also think it's important to have a case ID which means they formally acknowledge my request and will do something about it but the way the conversation with Joshua and Mark ended does not seem definitive.

Jason, this was not the first time I was told that FXCM will investigate. In fact last week I had a chat with Joshua (you can see the transcript at and he also told me he would investigate but did not provide me with case ID as well. Post 8787 http://www.forexfactory.com/showthre...54#post8826454


I do want to point out FXCM's dismissive attitude to my requests:

After my initial conversation with Joshua on Friday, I requested change to spread+ comission model through [email protected]. I got email reply saying that it is only for UK residence. A quick chat with their rep in live chat says it was possible. I dont understand why one company is giving conflicting advise.

I tried to talk again with FXCM on Monday and so I had to start over again. Their rep called Ridwan Gunawan called me and said if I am from Indonesia there is no such option to open low spread + comission and that he asked me to do it from Vankar Trading or FXCM US.

If you go to FXCM Indonesia their mini account spreads for eur/usd is also 1.4 pip (all in pricing) so that's why I wanted my account to be investigated

I did not want to open new account, I already had an account with FXCM UK and my spread was not the kind of spread they advertised on FXCM UK or FXCM Indonesia. So I went to live chat again and met with Craig. This conversation didn't go smoothly. As he had heard I had spoken to Ridwan he kept ignoring my explanation that I am not looking for new account but I want to investigate the spread. He asked Ridwan to call me again. Ridwan called again and I asked him to speak in English. Either because of bad phone connection or he didnt speak English he hung up after I ask him "do you speak English". I am not being rude, I had been living abroad for the last 10 years and my Bahasa is not as good as it used to be and I am more comfortable with English. Furthermore, my account is with FXCM UK not FXCM Indonesia.

This was my conversation with Craig:
Me:
he doesnt speak english apparently? he just hung up
all i want is to get the same 1.5 spread as shown in your website
for eur usd and typical spread as per your website for other spreads
if you read the chat log i included whtn i initiatie this you can see why i am asking you this question
Me: see that's what im saying on normal days my all in spread betting spread is 2.8 instead of 1.4 i don;t know how is this so FXCM - Joshua: on which pair? Me: eurUSD the very same pair that's why when i look at that comission + spread it's so low i want to change that FXCM - Joshua: we will have to follow up with you when trading is reopened so we can double check the spreads you are getting with the live market spreads Me: if the all in spread is 1.4 i would not change look this was a long time happening FXCM - Joshua: if there is a mistake with the account setting, we will be able to address this when trading is opened again we will certainly investigate this on your behalf Me: so who should i contact to follow up on this? FXCM - Joshua: we will contact you
FXCM - Craig:
The correct information for Indonesian accounts
can be found on the Indonesian website
I spoke to my collegue
Me:
my account is with fxcm uk
FXCM - Craig:
and he says he spoke to you a few minutees ago regarding this
Me:
my account [account ID removed] is with fxcm uk and not fxcm indonesia
that's why i dont understand why im being referred to fxcm indonesia
FXCM - Craig:
You can speak to Ridwan regarding this he is the local rep and will tell you the necessary regulations for Indonesian clients
Me:
my account [account ID removed] is with fxcm uk and not fxcm indonesia
if i print my statement here's the address
Forex Capital Markets Ltd Northern & Shell Building 10 Lower Thames Street London EC3R 6AD United Kingdom
according to your website https://www.fxcm.com/uk/advantages/mini-spreads/
FXCM - Craig:
Indonesia
To open an account and receive services in Bahasa, please apply through www.fxcm.com/id. Enjoy super low spreads on 18 popular currency pairs and up to 400:1 leverage from FXCM Markets.
if you opened vioa uk
Me:
even mini spreads have 1.5 pips eur usd
FXCM - Craig:
you can have your old settings
Me:
I AM NOT OPENING A NEW ACCOUNT
FXCM - Craig:
then the conditions of the account can not be changed
Me:
I SIMPLY WANT TO KNOW WHY THE ACCOUNT I HAVE HAVE SHITTY SPREAD
FXCM - Craig:
please speak to Ridwan
if you want those spreads
Me:
AND I WANT TO HAVE THAT FIXED
I CHAT WITH YOUR OTHER COLLEAGE AND HE SAID IT WAS NO PROBLEM AT ALL
FXCM - Craig:
That is not what the chat says
he said he will investigate
Me:
Me: ok, should the account currency affect the spread? like if the account is in usd or gbp? no right? FXCM - Joshua: this will not affect the spread Me: ok thanks but if i want to change into comission + spread that should be no problem? FXCM - Joshua: that will be no problem, we can investigate what is going on once the markets are live and make the switch in necessary *if
THERE
HE SAID IT IS NO PROBLEM TO CHANGE
WHY YOU LIE????|
The agent is typing.

After that chat I was furious and ended the chat. I knew I would not get anywhere with that guy. So then I waited till later the day when UK time is open. That's when I chatted with Mark L and eventually got the change.

So chronologically:
Joshua
Ridwan
Craig
Mark L

So without any case ID I had to explain everything from the start and I had to keep referring to my chat with Joshua and now with Mark L.

What I am wondering is why Craig so adamantly did not want to help me get my account changed? he kept pushing me to open account through another firm and when I said I didn't want new account I want my present account to be rectified he simply said that these account conditions cannot be changed which clearly now Mark L have proven to be possible. Craig seems to be clueless about account settings and not the least bit interested in providing a good customer service.

So, these questions remain:

So here's some questions I hope to get answer:
1. I have been asking what was that additional 1 pip and never got an answer from fxcm. So I want to clarify what is that additional charge?
2, Since when did I have that setting?
3. Of course if the setting had been wrong, I would like to have this rectified i.e reimburse me for that incorrect pricing.


From FCA's reminder:
"As previously set out in the Commissions guidance on whether a client legitimately relies on a firm to protect his or her interests, firms should note that:
in ordinary circumstances, a retail client legitimately relies on the firm to protect his or her interests in relation to the pricing and other parameters of the transaction
the non-fungible nature of some instruments results in captive trades where the client relies entirely on the firm for pricing"

"If a firm is in breach of our rules, we will seek to take further regulatory action. "




For other traders, below is FCA's reminder on best execution and firms duties.
http://www.fca.org.uk/static/documen...t-watch-45.pdf


I don't keep check and rechecking what FXCM charge me in spread, I relied on their expertise and I assumed they have their clients' best interest and therefore adequate controls and procedures are in place that I would not be disadvantaged.

I kept trading with them assuming I had been treated equally as other clients which clearly in this case is not, my spread is on average 1 pip higher that that of their all in pricing or spread + commission based pricing. My requests for clarification has only been met with ambiguity such as we will contact you or I cannot. I do not know how long it will take to review this particular situation.

A case ID at least will help me in following up in the future without having to restart conversation again.

Thank you for sending me your account details, because having complete information helped me to determine what happened. Reading through your chat transcripts, I see there has been some confusion, and for that I apologize.

Please note I have responded to your questions privately, because as I mention in my forum profile, I cannot publicly discuss the details of any client's trading activity. However, you are welcome to share my response with others if you choose.

Hi Jason, thanks for the reply. I'll share it with others, for those who are following.

Even with your answer I still do not get anywhere with my first question.

Here's the issue:
Take EUR/USD spread, the raw spread is about 0.5 pip. if we add comission, say 8 cents it will be about 1.3 pips.
that 1.3 pips is comparable to about 1.5 pips all in. Correct? and this is what all the FXCM reps had been saying, comparable.

1.5 pips of all in is comparable to 0.5 pip plus comission. This is the fact and I agree.


Now, in my account I do not see 1.5 pips for EUR USD. I see 2.5 pips. Hence my question is, why am I being charged a whole pip higher on all pairs?
I attach below a direct comparison from my account's spread with a demo account which clearly shows the spread difference.
In the attachment below, my account's dealing table is on the left and the demo account on the right bottom corner.


So, Jason walk me through your calculation if you want to say I am not being overcharged???? Show me the transparency as per FCA regulations.

You replied I was charged a fix pip markup, that markup should have been 1 pip only making my spread comparable to 1.5 pip. NOT 2.5 pips

Walk me through what makes my 2.5 spread??
0.5 = raw spread
1.0 = markup
1.0 =? what is this?? This is the one I am asking you





Here's FXCM's reply through Jason's account:

Thank you for sending me your account details, because having complete information helped me determine what happened. Reading through your chat transcripts, I see there has been some confusion, and for that I apologize.

Quoting Fx882
1. I have been asking what was that additional 1 pip and never got an answer from fxcm. So I want to clarify what is that additional charge?
First, I want to clarify that your account has always been on our No Dealing Desk (NDD) forex execution, since you opened it in 2011. On our original NDD pricing model, you were charged a fixed pip markup on the spread but no separate commission.

Jason: that markup in total is 2 pips for me instead of 1 pip normal because I see my total spread 2.5 pips instead of 1.5 pips.


Quoting Fx882
2, Since when did I have that setting?
This pricing model was in place for your account from the time you opened it until my colleague changed the setting for you recently to our new raw FX spread and commission model.

Quoting Fx882
3. Of course if the setting had been wrong, I would like to have this rectified i.e reimburse me for that incorrect pricing.
There was no error in your settings. Your account was set up on the original NDD pricing model in place for all accounts at the time. When we introduced the new raw FX spread and commission pricing model, it was not rolled out everywhere at the same time. As I mentioned then, the transition to the new model has been done by region, and Indonesia is not one of the countries where existing accounts have been automatically switched:http://www.forexfactory.com/showthre...53#post7832453

Jason, clearly my account had been overcharged by 1 pip. It should be comparable to 1.5 pips all in cost instead of the 2.5 pips I have
Even FXCM Indonesia page shows all in charge is 1.5 pip spread instead of what is showing in my account of 2.5 pips!
here's the link https://www.fxcm.com/id/products/forex/forex-spreads/
here's the screen shot of that page:




Compare those spreads with the spreads on my screen!

You are assuming a commission level which is incorrect. The old NDD pricing model had no commissions and instead added a fixed pip markup to the spread. The exact amount of the markup was fixed for each pair, and was approximately 1 pip on each side (both bid and ask) for the majors. I explain the difference between that and our new NDD pricing model in section 3 of this post: http://www.forexfactory.com/showthre...43#post7788843