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  • #4,141
  • Jan 27, 2015 3:33pm Jan 27, 2015 3:33pm
Quoting Profit Daily
{quote} I'm just saying I prefer a broker who doesn't have a conflict of interest. I literally can watch price move to .001 of my stop and not hit it. When they are on the other side, it will get hit. Call Oanda and ask them if they use the virtual dealer plug-in on their MT4? It's just a matter of preference though, if you're happy with them. My whole point for the past few days is the NFA taking away my choice of how I trade and who I trade with. There are much better brokers around the globe with no conflict of interest and I can't trade with...
I have 4 brokers
After 7 years of trading I work with Oanda and 3 ECN Brokers.
On ECN brokers, I have much more slippage.
  • #4,142
  • Jan 27, 2015 3:34pm Jan 27, 2015 3:34pm
Quoting Tim_isoara
{quote} In NDD is automatically In DD was manually, too much time and a lot requotes.
Think I was too funny again. What I was implying is automatic settlement was made by people. Am not saying Oanda abuses the system, am your client, love your prices and liquidity. Even if you may take a little advantage of clients, I like you , because I am not the overleveraged guy who can loose thanks to internal settlement, I am the guy using your tight spreads for swings. I also think thanks to Oanda beeing kind of little DD, is much faster in settling trades so stable during events like SNB - compared to ECN.
"I know one thing, that I know nothing." Sokrates
  • #4,143
  • Jan 28, 2015 12:49am Jan 28, 2015 12:49am
Quoting Profit Daily
{quote} Your basis is on what is 99.9% likely to be a one time event. Prior to that Thursday, when was that last time you heard of traders having negative balances?
It was on Sept. 6th 2011 - when the SNB introduced the peg.
A lot of traders got burned quite well in that 1700 Pip move on that day which was in a perfect downtrend.

All in all I'm counting more than 100 events since 2003 where a daily candle of more than 1000 pips occured each and every one designed to get accounts hurt pretty bad. I would not play it down as a "one time event". It's more a fat tail.

Quoting Profit Daily
If I want to risk $200 on a trade, that's what my broker gets. I am not putting up $20,000 in margin in an unprotected, non-segregated account. Who in their right mind would think that is a good idea?
But there, I'm totally with you. The "unprotected, non-segregated" thing is totally nuts.
  • #4,144
  • Jan 28, 2015 5:26am Jan 28, 2015 5:26am
Quoting Naddmer
{quote} It was on Sept. 6th 2011 - when the SNB introduced the peg. A lot of traders got burned quite well in that 1700 Pip move on that day which was in a perfect downtrend. All in all I'm counting more than 100 events since 2003 where a daily candle of more than 1000 pips occured each and every one designed to get accounts hurt pretty bad. I would not play it down as a "one time event". It's more a fat tail. {quote} But there, I'm totally with you. The "unprotected, non-segregated" thing is totally nuts.
Difference this time was no liquidity, sure there have been 1000 pip daily candles, but prices were available, stops were able to be filled. A 40000 pip move with no LPs providing prices, I'd say high probability we wait another 40 years.
  • #4,145
  • Jan 28, 2015 11:11am Jan 28, 2015 11:11am
Quoting Profit Daily
{quote} I'm just saying I prefer a broker who doesn't have a conflict of interest. I literally can watch price move to .001 of my stop and not hit it. When they are on the other side, it will get hit. Call Oanda and ask them if they use the virtual dealer plug-in on their MT4? It's just a matter of preference though, if you're happy with them. My whole point for the past few days is the NFA taking away my choice of how I trade and who I trade with. There are much better brokers around the globe with no conflict of interest and I can't trade with...
I've called OANDA and they created their own custom bridge to MT4 - no virtual dealer plug-in.

I understand your concern as a retail trader, especially with the plethora of scam brokerages around these days. However, I'll say one thing (I have been involved with several e-FX desks and also trade FX on the side):

Market makers basically run FX. Without them, liquidity would be jacked and spreads would be ridiculously high. Go right to the top of the totem pole - UBS, DB, Citi, BARX - all MMs and supply virtually all 'end-point' liquidity everywhere. When you guys say 'ECN', what you're really saying is you want a middle man between the MM and yourself. For example, who do you think supplies the vast majority of liquidity on the world's largest ECNs (Reuters/FXall, EBS, Hotspot, Currenex)?

The universal rule of thumb is that MMs will ALWAYS execute better than an ECN - less slippage, generally better spreads etc. For HFs and dealers and the like, the appeal of ECNs (and to a lesser extent the CME) is one major thing: anonymity. When you trade with an MM, you have a disclosed relationship and they'll come back to you with feedback on what kind of trading they like and don't like. On an ECN, you're undisclosed. This is why, again, generally, liquidity will dry up on an ECN MUCH faster than disclosed relationships as the MMs that supply liquidity to the ECN get more conservative.

For the retail trader, guys like LMAX are basically matching you with a real MM (most likely guys like FXCM and GAIN and OANDA are supplying liquidity there as well), so in the end, you're still trading with an MM. The benefit is that you get the 'best bid/offer' over a range of MMs with one broker. On the other hand, LMAX slippage will be more than an MM like OANDA. This is because, in the end, the MM WILL "last look" you on an ECN and may not accept the trade, which means LMAX will try to find the 'next' bid/offer etc etc.

Generally speaking, if you find a great MM and your strategy isn't some HFT arbitrage algo (I love OANDA personally), you get the benefit of greater execution and disclosed relationships so better spreads. If you have the resources, you should try it with a basic API strategy (or, the dreaded MT4 EA). Execute the same API or EA on a broker like OANDA and LMAX - I guarantee that you will be slipped less at OANDA.
  • #4,146
  • Jan 28, 2015 12:50pm Jan 28, 2015 12:50pm
Quoting Pirotechnic
{quote} I've called OANDA and they created their own custom bridge to MT4 - no virtual dealer plug-in. I understand your concern as a retail trader, especially with the plethora of scam brokerages around these days. However, I'll say one thing (I have been involved with several e-FX desks and also trade FX on the side): Market makers basically run FX. Without them, liquidity would be jacked and spreads would be ridiculously high. Go right to the top of the totem pole - UBS, DB, Citi, BARX - all MMs and supply virtually all 'end-point' liquidity...
I agree on almost all points. I prefer an ECN because the broker doesn't have a conflict of interest. I understand someone has to be on the other side of trade, but I prefer it to not be the broker. As far as spreads, I pay.6 pip commission round turn and get 1.8 on gbpjpy so 2.4, most mm are 4+, eurusd I have .2 so .8 total . I'm just more upset about the fact the NFA will not let me trade how I want or with a broker I want. I'd much prefer a regulated broker, but I do not like the choices in US, and the regulation here does nothing for me anyway as far as protection. Any regulated broker in another country, the NFA feels they can regulate them also by not allowing them to accept me. It's just not free enterprise, this is America, right?
  • #4,147
  • Jan 28, 2015 1:13pm Jan 28, 2015 1:13pm
Quoting Profit Daily
{quote} I agree on almost all points. I prefer an ECN because the broker doesn't have a conflict of interest. I understand someone has to be on the other side of trade, but I prefer it to not be the broker. As far as spreads, I pay.6 pip commission round turn and get 1.8 on gbpjpy so 2.4, most mm are 4+, eurusd I have .2 so .8 total . I'm just more upset about the fact the NFA will not let me trade how I want or with a broker I want. I'd much prefer a regulated broker, but I do not like the choices in US, and the regulation here does nothing for...
True - The NFA is overkill to the point of making it a nanny state.

From a retail standpoint, I guess the differences in liquidity etc. are not significant enough between MMs and ECNs, so your preference is perfectly valid.

Why don't you try Interactive Brokers in the U.S? If I'm not mistaken, they run a mini-ECN type environment. I mean, not a true ECN, but all they do is allow MMs to quote directly into their system and they display best bid/offer. That's essentially what any retail ECN is doing.
  • #4,148
  • Jan 28, 2015 1:22pm Jan 28, 2015 1:22pm
Quoting Pirotechnic
{quote} True - The NFA is overkill to the point of making it a nanny state. From a retail standpoint, I guess the differences in liquidity etc. are not significant enough between MMs and ECNs, so your preference is perfectly valid. Why don't you try Interactive Brokers in the U.S? If I'm not mistaken, they run a mini-ECN type environment. I mean, not a true ECN, but all they do is allow MMs to quote directly into their system and they display best bid/offer. That's essentially what any retail ECN is doing.
Yes, for me, they are the best choice in the USA, but still under NFA regulations. Although there are a few here who disagree, I prefer high leverage brokers simply for the fact it allows me to keep my funds in my bank. The NFA/CFTC does not protect me, so if I can put up $200 to trade a standard lot for say, USD/JPY, as opposed to $3,030, which is now required on JPY. Since the NFA WILL NOT ALLOW the brokers to segregate client funds, I choose to do so myself.
  • #4,149
  • Jan 28, 2015 1:31pm Jan 28, 2015 1:31pm
Quoting Profit Daily
{quote} Yes, for me, they are the best choice in the USA, but still under NFA regulations. Although there are a few here who disagree, I prefer high leverage brokers simply for the fact it allows me to keep my funds in my bank. The NFA/CFTC does not protect me, so if I can put up $200 to trade a standard lot for say, USD/JPY, as opposed to $3,030, which is now required on JPY. Since the NFA WILL NOT ALLOW the brokers to segregate client funds, I choose to do so myself.
That's a lot of leverage - must get hairy with Risk Management.
  • #4,150
  • Jan 28, 2015 1:36pm Jan 28, 2015 1:36pm
Quoting Pirotechnic
{quote} That's a lot of leverage - must get hairy with Risk Management.
You would think, but only 10% of my capital is with broker, so I simply send over whatever amount I want to risk on the trade. So if I want to trade 1 lot of USDJPY with a 40 pip stop, I transfer $400 to the broker for that trade, even though margin required is $200. Here in US, even though my risk is $400, I have to put up $3,030, it's absolutely ridiculous.
  • #4,151
  • Jan 28, 2015 2:08pm Jan 28, 2015 2:08pm
Quoting Profit Daily
{quote} You would think, but only 10% of my capital is with broker, so I simply send over whatever amount I want to risk on the trade. So if I want to trade 1 lot of USDJPY with a 40 pip stop, I transfer $400 to the broker for that trade, even though margin required is $200. Here in US, even though my risk is $400, I have to put up $3,030, it's absolutely ridiculous.
  • #4,152
  • Jan 28, 2015 2:30pm Jan 28, 2015 2:30pm
Quoting Tim_isoara
{quote}
Still not sure what is so funny about protecting my capital., when my countries regulation, although claiming to be looking out for me, refuses to allow brokers to segregate forex accounts. Why would someone want to put up $3,000 when risking $400?
  • #4,153
  • Jan 28, 2015 2:40pm Jan 28, 2015 2:40pm
Quoting Pirotechnic
For the retail trader, guys like LMAX are basically matching you with a real MM (most likely guys like FXCM and GAIN and OANDA are supplying liquidity there as well), so in the end, you're still trading with an MM. The benefit is that you get the 'best bid/offer' over a range of MMs with one broker. On the other hand, LMAX slippage will be more than an MM like OANDA. This is because, in the end, the MM WILL "last look" you on an ECN and may not accept the trade, which means LMAX will try to find the 'next' bid/offer etc etc. Generally speaking,...
Please check your facts before you make such statements. LMAX is not an ECN it is a MTF - Multilateral Trading Facility. Look up the definition if you are interested to know the difference. Being an MTF is exactly why there is NO "last look" provision for their LPs and that is why you are more likely to get less slippage there.
I'm not insane; my mother had me tested.
  • #4,154
  • Jan 28, 2015 4:16pm Jan 28, 2015 4:16pm
Quoting RoBiK
{quote} Please check your facts before you make such statements. LMAX is not an ECN it is a MTF - Multilateral Trading Facility. Look up the definition if you are interested to know the difference. Being an MTF is exactly why there is NO "last look" provision for their LPs and that is why you are more likely to get less slippage there.
LMAX is ECN or MM?
  • #4,155
  • Jan 28, 2015 5:25pm Jan 28, 2015 5:25pm
Quoting Profit Daily
{quote} No, I believe, if given the option, the US based brokers would offer the same leverage as its overseas competitors. It's the over regulation that won't allow them too. Same reason they don't offer segregated accounts, not broker choice,the NFA does not allow it. They do not want spot forex to exist in the US, plain and simple. Let's face it, there are some much better brokers around the world than the offering here in the US. Are these brokers, such as Dukascopy, not fiscally responsible? They lowered leverage to 10:1 on eurchf in Oct. It...
Oando's website says they have segregated accounts. Why do you think differently?
  • #4,156
  • Jan 28, 2015 5:37pm Jan 28, 2015 5:37pm
Quoting verv
{quote} Oando's website says they have segregated accounts. Why do you think differently?
It's against NFA regulations. They don't want spot fx to exist in the US. So they do everything to steer traders away.
  • #4,157
  • Jan 28, 2015 5:40pm Jan 28, 2015 5:40pm
Quoting Profit Daily
{quote} It's against NFA regulations. They don't want spot fx to exist in the US. So they do everything to steer traders away.
But Oando says on their website that clients funds are separate from their operational funds.

It says it on both the Oando US and Oando Europe websites.

Are they lying?


''How safe are my funds with OANDA Europe?
OANDA has always been dedicated to the highest standards of integrity, compliance and investor protection. OANDA Europe maintains all customer funds strictly separate from operational funds in accounts at highly reputable banks such as HSBC, and Standard Chartered Bank. Funds are withdrawn from these accounts only as a direct result of customers' trading-related activities or withdrawal requests.'' Oando Europe regulated by the FCA...

''How safe are my funds?
OANDA Corporation has always been dedicated to the highest standards of integrity, compliance and investor protection. OANDA maintains all customer funds strictly separate from its operational funds in accounts at highly reputable banks such as HSBC, and Standard Chartered Bank. Funds are withdrawn from these accounts only as a direct result of customers' trading-related activities or withdrawal requests.''
  • #4,158
  • Jan 28, 2015 6:09pm Jan 28, 2015 6:09pm
Quoting verv
{quote} But Oando says on their website that clients funds are separate from their operational funds. It says it on both the Oando US and Oando Europe websites. Are they lying? ''How safe are my funds with OANDA Europe? OANDA has always been dedicated to the highest standards of integrity, compliance and investor protection. OANDA Europe maintains all customer funds strictly separate from operational funds in accounts at highly reputable banks such as HSBC, and Standard Chartered Bank. Funds are withdrawn from these accounts only as a direct result...
Little tricky, isn't it. While it may be posted on the US site, neither of those statements mentions USA, first statement says Oanda Europe. It is not that Oanda doesn't want to do it, they probably would be happy to. It's the NFA, which is not even a government agency, that is requiring you to put up 20x the margin as the rest of the world, while at the same time offering you no protection of those funds.

WELCOME TO AMERICA--LAND OF THE FREE
  • #4,159
  • Jan 28, 2015 6:14pm Jan 28, 2015 6:14pm
Quoting Profit Daily
{quote} Little tricky, isn't it. While it may be posted on the US site, neither of those statements mentions USA, first statement says Oanda Europe. It is not that Oanda doesn't want to do it, they probably would be happy to. It's the NFA, which is not even a government agency, that is requiring you to put up 20x the margin as the rest of the world, while at the same time offering you no protection of those funds. WELCOME TO AMERICA--LAND OF THE FREE
I'd be signing up to Oando Europe though... which is regulated differently than the US version.

Make any difference in your view?
  • #4,160
  • Jan 28, 2015 6:45pm Jan 28, 2015 6:45pm
Quoting verv
{quote} I'd be signing up to Oando Europe though... which is regulated differently than the US version. Make any difference in your view?
Yes, I'm sure the accounts are segregated in Europe. However, if you are not in the US, you have many, many better options.
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