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  • #6,721
  • Jan 26, 2015 10:38pm Jan 26, 2015 10:38pm
Quoting Bilstein
Is it just me or does it take $20,000.00 MMR to hold 100K EURCHF at FXCM now? Lol?
Yeah, I think the leverage is something like 1:4-5 max for that pair.
  • #6,722
  • Jan 26, 2015 10:41pm Jan 26, 2015 10:41pm
Quoting calstar
{quote}
Without a doubt 400-1 leverage absolutely burns newbies and is not in a beginners best interest if they want to become an aspiring long term trader. Much like your experience I too had a steep learning curve with 200-1 when i first began and i did lose a lot money. Learning the hard way teaches good capital management in the long run.Thus 50-1 can be too restrictive for mature traders who have good Money Management (MM)strategies.

For non US FX traders the ability of choice is very important and being treated like a child by a broker that is going against the industry standard after it stuffed up is rather unpleasant. I've been trading 100-1 for quite a while so why should i change my MM strategies because of my brokers stuff up? especially not when i have a plethora of other brokers willing to let me trade how i want.

Again i feel it is wrong to blame high margin newbs for blowing up FXCM. As a retail trader you are trading within the environment that is governed and provided by the broker(Market maker). Now within this environment that FXCM provided they had 'promised' or at least advertised to its customers that it would never allow them to lose more money than what they have in their account, ie go into negative.
Thus FXCM bears responsibility and liability for managing the risks associated with that promise and should have taken appropriate steps for hedging these risks on their behalf.
Like i posted previously Dukascopy lowered the margins in anticipation of volatility and they escaped relatively unscathed.

Using your example of kids with candy, it is up to the parents to supervise and provide guidance. Now because one parent didn't do their job properly and supervise adequately they are now going to remove all the candy bowls as punishment........
So you can't blame the lowly customers for breaking a broker when they were trading within the rules the broker laid out.
If anything FXCM has been rather cagey with playing by rules as the $14 million CFTC fine a few years back suggests.

Lets not forget too for Market-maker brokers who hedge against its customers, the newbs with 400-1 leverage that end up blowing up their accounts are typically cash cows and great for revenue......
  • #6,723
  • Jan 26, 2015 10:42pm Jan 26, 2015 10:42pm
Quoting ForexOracle
{quote} I don't think it is a swetshop. But the location is Tampa Florida!! And I don't know.......... for 30 bucks per hour people will incarnate a lot of nicknames!!
I also think you must be paid for such spam.
"I know one thing, that I know nothing." Sokrates
  • #6,724
  • Jan 26, 2015 10:46pm Jan 26, 2015 10:46pm
Quoting Dafonz
{quote} Without a doubt 400-1 leverage absolutely burns newbies and is not in a beginners best interest if they want to become an aspiring long term trader. Much like your experience I too had a steep learning curve with 200-1 when i first began and i did lose a lot money. Learning the hard way teaches good capital management in the long run.Thus 50-1 can be too restrictive for mature traders who have good Money Management (MM)strategies. For non US FX traders the ability of choice is very important and being treated like a child by a broker that...
How many mature, experienced, long-term profitable traders using 1:400 lever do you know?
  • #6,725
  • Jan 26, 2015 10:48pm Jan 26, 2015 10:48pm
Quoting Magix
{quote} Yeah, you dicks... Quit fighting...me n kanz are trying to have a convo.


Quoting Magix
{quote} How does insolvent and being able to give traders their money back and close their doors, like a responsible company, even fit into the same sentence? Scaremongering? Have they not requested money back? Have they not kipsed funds from secondary accounts? Have they not justified their antics with the bullshit Forced Majeure, clause? Whether they chase you down the street or just send out this email, they are one the same. Their business was built by the people who trusted them and their contract. Their business failed because they didn't...
Despite your personal attacks, I'm only interested in the facts Magix. What I see is misinformation and speculative rumor. I don't like misinformation.

They were insolvent. They aren't now. They can and are giving traders back their money if they want out, evidence has been provided by traders in this thread of that. They have pulled from secondary accounts within the FXCM account but that was a previously agreed catastrophic clause and that's not supposed to be a surprise to anybody who had an inkling of sense. Quite frankly the only way you should have lost that much money in the first place where you had secondary accounts cleaned out is if you were an extremely overleveraged fool with stoplosses way too far away if they existed at all and crossing your fingers a black swan would never happen against you. Which wasn't an unreasonable expectation given the magnitude of the event and how rare it should have been but it was still possible. Yeah they asked for funds to be deposited. As stated earlier that's a far cry from what some are saying is going to happen as far as them going after your bank account yada yada yada. When that day comes then I'll eat my words and call FXCM out for what I would see as a violation of their good faith agreement but until then I'm just calling a spade a spade - paranoia fueled by the anger that some lost significant sums. Sorry to those who did but it isn't a justification to spread misinformation.

You're right - someone dropped the ball here, big time. But given the situation and what some companies would be trying to do (LMAX, Alpari, *cough* *cough*), FXCM could be handling it a lot worse. Ask any of the people with negative balances from those two companies.
  • #6,726
  • Jan 26, 2015 10:51pm Jan 26, 2015 10:51pm
To Dafonz What works for you is great. The point of my PDF post was I am limited to 50-1 and it works for me glad yours works for you and I would agree FXCM messed up but my point is I would rather not take the hit for FXCM by having to pledge more in collateral and also not be able to do business overseas. For crying out loud they just allowed a some one to open a new exchange to trade bit coins and I am getting my margin reduced like Magix said uninformed decisions.

Does anyone even know how many US customers lost money. It would be nice to see those numbers because I bet in the grand total it is a small percentage of the whole which the NFA is using this like has been said put retail under.
  • #6,727
  • Jan 26, 2015 10:52pm Jan 26, 2015 10:52pm
Quoting xy76
{quote} How many mature, experienced, long-term profitable traders using 1:400 lever do you know?
Over 500.

A lot of us play higher leverage with automated software.
Attached Image
Money Can't Buy Happiness. Poverty Can't Buy SHIT! You Choose!
  • #6,728
  • Jan 26, 2015 10:58pm Jan 26, 2015 10:58pm
Quoting Magix
{quote} Over 500. A lot of us play higher leverage with automated software. {image}
EAs, I have never tried them. I have always been trading manually and turned profitable more or less consistently once I reduced my leverage.
  • #6,729
  • Jan 26, 2015 11:03pm Jan 26, 2015 11:03pm
Quoting Kanzler
Despite your personal attacks, I'm only interested in the facts Magix. What I see is misinformation and speculative rumor.
Personal attacks would start with, me banging your mom, type replies.
I don't know you, I don't trade with the same broker, I have no reason to attack you...
If you feel my replies are personal, that is not my issue...it's yours.

There is no misinformation.

Backdoor tactics by your broker should be the only thing you see.

You do not see me on threads about Alpari, nor Lmax, nor others. Reason being, they don't advertise the not chasing negative accounts, that I know of, and Alpari, is tits up. They did what needed to be done.

Alpari, IMO, Always sucked the big one...And this I say from personal experience. Misquotes, bad fills, Range Spikes...the GAMBIT. Not really sorry to see them go, but they did it in an honorable way.

They shit the sheets...closed their doors.

FXCM shit the same set...and what'd they do?

2 completely different situations.
2 completely separate outcomes.

I've said before and will say again, the entire situation sucks. I don't blame FXCM for closing accounts on negative balances. I don't blame them for not being able to provide liquidity where there was none. I don't blame them for their customers losing their trades. I don't blame them for not having the same foresight as other companies. I don't blame them for not being a bucketshop and keeping all the funds.

I do blame them for going back on their contractual obligations, taking money from separate accounts and chasing after negative balances.
Money Can't Buy Happiness. Poverty Can't Buy SHIT! You Choose!
  • #6,730
  • Jan 26, 2015 11:08pm Jan 26, 2015 11:08pm
Quoting xy76
{quote} EAs, I have never tried them. I have always been trading manually and turned profitable more or less consistently once I reduced my leverage.
Trading EAs with high leverage doesn't make you a bad person.

Trading manually with a lower leverage doesn't make you a bad person.

Having the decision removed, is the underlining part of the conversation.

By this regulation and the homesoil regulation, it removes the possibility of others being able to make this decision for themselves and creates monopolies.

Free market?

My ASS!
Money Can't Buy Happiness. Poverty Can't Buy SHIT! You Choose!
  • #6,731
  • Jan 26, 2015 11:13pm Jan 26, 2015 11:13pm
Quoting Magix
{quote} Personal attacks would start with, me banging your mom, type replies. I don't know you, I don't trade with the same broker, I have no reason to attack you... If you feel my replies are personal, that is not my issue...it's yours. There is no misinformation. Backdoor tactics by your broker should be the only thing you see. You do not see me on threads about Alpari, nor Lmax, nor others. Reason being, they don't advertise the not chasing negative accounts, that I know of, and Alpari, is tits up. They did what needed to be done. Alpari, IMO,...
I am with Magix on this one. It is unethical what they are doing at the moment. Besides, it puts the whole industry in bad light.
  • #6,732
  • Jan 26, 2015 11:19pm Jan 26, 2015 11:19pm
Quoting Magix
{quote} Trading EAs with high leverage doesn't make you a bad person. Trading manually with a lower leverage doesn't make you a bad person. Having the decision removed, is the underlining part of the conversation. By this regulation and the homesoil regulation, it removes the possibility of others being able to make this decision for themselves and creates monopolies. Free market? My ASS!
It is not about being bad, good, or somewhere in the middle. I just find it hard to believe that it is possible to defy maths for long. And leverage in general, not only for retail traders, needs to be capped, IMHO. Is there enough dough in the whole world economy to leverage all these trades?
  • #6,733
  • Jan 26, 2015 11:22pm Jan 26, 2015 11:22pm
Quoting xy76
{quote} It is not about being bad, good, or somewhere in the middle. I just find it hard to believe that it is possible to defy maths for long. And leverage in general, not only for retail traders, needs to be capped, IMHO. Is there enough dough in the whole world economy to leverage all these trades?
When and where the rest of the entire planet, with exception of the most powerful country in the world, affords its citizens the right to make that decision for themselves, who are you or anybody else to make a decision for them?

Cholesterol and High calories are more of a concern than a few people that lose a few bucks in the markets.

Where's the restriction on that shit?
Money Can't Buy Happiness. Poverty Can't Buy SHIT! You Choose!
  • #6,734
  • Jan 26, 2015 11:28pm Jan 26, 2015 11:28pm
Quoting Magix
{quote} When and where the rest of the entire planet, with exception of the most powerful country in the world, affords its citizens the right to make that decision for themselves, who are you or anybody else to make a decision for them? Cholesterol and High calories are more of a concern than a few people that lose a few bucks in the markets. Where's the restriction on that shit?
Too much calories is only detrimental to those who consume them. Over leveraged global financial markets affect everybody. Remember 2008?Is there any country in the whole world with no speed limits on public roads?
  • #6,735
  • Jan 26, 2015 11:32pm Jan 26, 2015 11:32pm
Quoting xy76
{quote} Too much calories is only detrimental to those who consume them. Over leveraged global financial markets affect everybody. Remember 2008?Is there any country in the whole world with no speed limits on public roads?
Over-leveraged global financial markets cannot be blamed on John Q Public that drops a portion of his After Taxed earnings into forex. This argument is invalid.

As for speed limits...
http://www.motorists.org/press/monta...safety-paradox

Guns don't kill people...people do.
Money Can't Buy Happiness. Poverty Can't Buy SHIT! You Choose!
  • #6,736
  • Jan 26, 2015 11:39pm Jan 26, 2015 11:39pm
Quoting Magix
{quote} Over-leveraged global financial markets cannot be blamed on John Q Public that drops a portion of his After Taxed earnings into forex. This argument is invalid. As for speed limits... http://www.motorists.org/press/monta...safety-paradox Guns don't kill people...people do.
The difference between John Q and Mr Big Shark of the Wall Street is just quantity. Principia remain the same.Guns are easy to control by pretty much everyone. The same cannot be said about 250 km/h car being driven on a twisty B-road on a frosty day.What do they say? The freedom of one's fist ends half an inch from the tip of my nose.
  • #6,737
  • Jan 26, 2015 11:52pm Jan 26, 2015 11:52pm
Quoting Magix
{quote} Personal attacks would start with, me banging your mom, type replies. I don't know you, I don't trade with the same broker, I have no reason to attack you... If you feel my replies are personal, that is not my issue...it's yours. There is no misinformation. Backdoor tactics by your broker should be the only thing you see. You do not see me on threads about Alpari, nor Lmax, nor others. Reason being, they don't advertise the not chasing negative accounts, that I know of, and Alpari, is tits up. They did what needed to be done. Alpari, IMO,...

Alright man. Still contesting the claim that they're reneging on any contractual obligations but I'll leave it at that for the night.
  • #6,738
  • Jan 26, 2015 11:53pm Jan 26, 2015 11:53pm
Quoting xy76
{quote} Too much calories is only detrimental to those who consume them. Over leveraged global financial markets affect everybody. Remember 2008?Is there any country in the whole world with no speed limits on public roads?
The NFA has decided that I cant deposit from a credit card. They have decided how much risk I can tolerate by limiting leverage. They have essentially told me I cant think for myself.YET! there is a local casino in my city run by an Indian tribe that had a net profit of 350 million dollars last year. The government is fine with that and that is a bigger loss by John Q public then FXCM had. Were is the regulation on that?. Before you say its a different industry and that it is a game of chance the odds are increased so they are tilted to the house so you lose. In trading regardless of what you think every trade is a 50/50 prop. The odds are the same for everyone and if you are good at what you do you can increase slightly your chances. Try going to Vegas and counting cards to increase your odds and see what happens Yet casino patrons can still use a credit card and the Casino decides the limit I can leverage vs the odds. The NFA is not a private entity like a Casino so again what right do they have to tell me how I want to gamble. When was the last time you saw a news story about a forex trader embezzling to cover their trading losses. Conversely there are stories everyday about people embezzling to cover gambling losses.
  • #6,739
  • Jan 26, 2015 11:56pm Jan 26, 2015 11:56pm
Anyway, it is time to get some sleep for me at last. I think most folks agree here that FXCM's pathetic attempts at racketeering suck big time and they can shove their moronic emails right up their arses. I do not agree with what most of you think of high leverage and I do not think that we can convince each other. I am too stubborn for that, anyway;-)
Have a good night/day/evening/ whatever.
BTW. Kanzler, this Kenyan guy did not write back to me. I just hope my post will last a bit longer.
  • #6,740
  • Jan 26, 2015 11:58pm Jan 26, 2015 11:58pm
Quoting Magix
{quote} Uniformed decisions!
Lol, just the ones GS tells him to make
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