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Is demo a step before real trading?

  • #41
  • Apr 12, 2013 10:29pm Apr 12, 2013 10:29pm
Quoting MapleLeaf
And if you are that good coding EA's, indicators and alerts, why dont you use the EA's to trade LIVE on your own account and make unlimited amounts of money, instead? Yes, I'm sure you will have an answer for that from the PDF manual of answers.
For your info, it isn't the coder who make an EA profitable but who developped the strategy.
MT4/MT5 EAs/Indicators/Alerts coder
  • #42
  • Apr 12, 2013 11:50pm Apr 12, 2013 11:50pm
Like I said above, you will try to find an answer for every question to try to satisfy people reading the forum and maybe potential new clients.

But that's your answer, not the truth.

It looks like you (like 99.6% of people) cannot make a living trading RETAIL FOREX. If you could, you would use your EA's and make unlimited amounts of money.

But again, you will try to find another answer for this one. Go ahead and think hard and let's see how you can satisfy people reading this and convince them that this is a possible business for them to make money.
The Black Swan: The Impact of the Highly Improbable
  • #43
  • Apr 12, 2013 11:55pm Apr 12, 2013 11:55pm
Quoting MapleLeaf
If you could, you would use your EA's and make unlimited amounts of money.
I don't have any EA and never sold a single one.
MT4/MT5 EAs/Indicators/Alerts coder
  • #44
  • Apr 13, 2013 8:57am Apr 13, 2013 8:57am
Quoting MapleLeaf
Quoted for TRUTH. That's why you see so many MT4 Programmers in this forum. Those guys never EVER Trade LIVE and they were never able to make a living off forex, for a period longer than 3 months, YET, they make money coding MT4 indicators and stuff. Truly crazy.
//---

"Truly crazy" ...... ????????? why.....


hey mapleleaf.... noticed you seem to have a lot of questions on various threads lately....

there are about 200,000 members at forexfactory.... i can count the number of active coders on 2 hands..... i can count the number of active coders that charge on 1 hand.... i can't think of a single 'trade producing ea' seller outside of the commercial section...... there are still plenty of coding requests that go unhandled..... some of those requests are from people on a very limited budget.... it would not hurt at all to increase the number of coders available.....

yes there are a few members here whose only source of income is forex trading..... there is one, at least until recently, that derived a large part of his/her income from audjpy swap alone.....

//----

forex trading as we know it today, is both new and complex..... so it stands to reason precentage of successful will be low..... with time, the precentage will improve.....h
to trade and code, keep both simple... no call to impress....h
  • #45
  • Apr 14, 2013 6:03am Apr 14, 2013 6:03am
Quoting FerruFx
... for the seller/marketer would be the right sentence
Agreed and usually it is the developer who would be selling and pushing his EA onto a weary market..thinking back to Fatturbo..
And yes, most ea developers work as a team, with one person handling the marketing / selling, another to review the product and the list goes on.
And if some still believe that the EA is the holy grail.. no comments..
  • #46
  • Apr 14, 2013 9:32am Apr 14, 2013 9:32am
If you're confident in your strategy (as it appears) then you could always open up a small £100 account. Trading demo is obviously different from trading a live account but i think if you are confident enough then trading a live account could help improve your confident some more and also earn some money along the way. Your results seem impressive.
  • #47
  • Apr 14, 2013 3:19pm Apr 14, 2013 3:19pm
Quoting hayseed
there are about 200,000 members at forexfactory.... i can count the number of active coders on 2 hands..... i can count the number of active coders that charge on 1 hand.... i can't think of a single 'trade producing ea' seller outside of the commercial section...... there are still plenty of coding requests that go unhandled..... some of those requests are from people on a very limited budget.... it would not hurt at all to increase the number of coders available.....

I am completely sure you do, hayseed. People come and go in thousands every single day in this business. Just check who was in this forum 2 years ago, and who is now... A very very small percentage was here, and still is here.

Now let me ask you a question, how many hands do you need to count the amount of people in these 200,000 members, that make a living OFF LIVE TRADING RETAIL FOREX every single month, for the past 5 years ??...
The Black Swan: The Impact of the Highly Improbable
  • #48
  • Apr 14, 2013 5:33pm Apr 14, 2013 5:33pm
Quoting MapleLeaf
Now let me ask you a question, how many hands do you need to count the amount of people in these 200,000 members, that make a living OFF LIVE TRADING RETAIL FOREX every single month, for the past 5 years ??...
//----

hey mapleleaf..... of course that sort of information is not available to me.... might be able to make an educated guess, nothing more....

assuming forexfactory has 200,000 members, past and present, i'd feel comfortable saying 200 made a living trading forex and other markets.... other markets being typical stocks, options , futures and such.....

if we cut it down to forex only, which would be far too restrictive, possibly 50 are paying all bills strictly with trading for the last 5 years....

if you would reduce your '5 years' to 1 year, my numbers would be higher.... don't underestimate the learning curve.....

and should have mentioned this before, even the coders that charge, more often than not , help for free......h
to trade and code, keep both simple... no call to impress....h
  • #49
  • Apr 14, 2013 7:40pm Apr 14, 2013 7:40pm
Quoting hayseed
... and should have mentioned this before, even the coders that charge, more often than not , help for free......h
I can't agree more.
MT4/MT5 EAs/Indicators/Alerts coder
  • #50
  • Apr 15, 2013 1:51am Apr 15, 2013 1:51am
Quoting hayseed
//---- hey mapleleaf..... of course that sort of information is not available to me.... might be able to make an educated guess, nothing more.... assuming forexfactory has 200,000 members, past and present, i'd feel comfortable saying 200 made a living trading forex and other markets.... other markets being typical stocks, options , futures and such..... if we cut it down to forex only, which would be far too restrictive, possibly 50 are paying all bills strictly with trading for the last 5 years.... if you would reduce your '5 years' to 1 year,...
Yes, with that 0.1% you are very close to the official number of 0.4%.

ONLY 0.4% make a living off trading ONLINE RETAIL FOREX, after 1 year period. These are official stats of RETAIL FOREX BROKERS on a study performed by a PhD on thousands of LIVE accounts.

Look at the SAD Irony here: The 95% number has always been a LIE. It's 99.6%... Very similar to Casinos. People have more chances in Poker than in Forex.

Even knowing they will lose their account, people join the FOREX BROKERS, deposit their money and lose it all. Same attitude as people going to Vegas Casinos, but here you have a lot of false promises involved, like the BIG LIE that there are systems, and indicators and Price Action to predict the future. Nobody can predict what will happen. And those indicators, ALL LAG Big time, and won't reduce the HOUSE EDGE, if any. Even if you consider there is an edge, well.. In BlackJack and Roulette you have an edge too. So, we are talking about a Gambling Business here.

[/TRUTH]
The Black Swan: The Impact of the Highly Improbable
  • #51
  • Apr 15, 2013 3:38am Apr 15, 2013 3:38am
Quoting MapleLeaf
Yes, with that 0.1% you are very close to the official number of 0.4%. ONLY 0.4% make a living off trading ONLINE RETAIL FOREX, after 1 year period. These are official stats of RETAIL FOREX BROKERS on a study performed by a PhD on thousands of LIVE accounts. Look at the SAD Irony here: The 95% number has always been a LIE. It's 99.6%... Very similar to Casinos. People have more chances in Poker than in Forex. Even knowing they will lose their account, people join the FOREX BROKERS, deposit their money and lose it all. Same attitude as people...
Quote
The 95% number has always been a LIE

As far as I understood it, it was that 5% make a profit. There's a big difference between making a profit and making a living.
Please Do Not PM Me With Coding Enquiries
  • #52
  • Apr 15, 2013 3:54am Apr 15, 2013 3:54am
Quoting Gumrai
As far as I understood it, it was that 5% make a profit. There's a big difference between making a profit and making a living.
Ok, following your terminology, actually the 0.4% refers to accounts that were profitable after 1 year of trading.

99.6% of LIVE FOREX accounts are not profitable after trading one year in Retail Forex Brokers, which makes the whole picture even worse.
The Black Swan: The Impact of the Highly Improbable
  • #53
  • Apr 15, 2013 4:06am Apr 15, 2013 4:06am
Quoting MapleLeaf
Ok, following your terminology, actually the 0.4% refers to accounts that were profitable after 1 year of trading. 99.6% of LIVE FOREX accounts are not profitable after trading one year in Retail Forex Brokers, which makes the whole picture even worse.
Well, actually I was following your terminology....


Quoting MapleLeaf
ONLY 0.4% make a living off trading ONLINE RETAIL FOREX, after 1 year period. These are official stats of RETAIL FOREX BROKERS
Please Do Not PM Me With Coding Enquiries
  • #54
  • Apr 15, 2013 5:15am Apr 15, 2013 5:15am
demo is a must before starting to trade your strategy live.
There is so much to learn thru execution of orders, basic administrative skills that teaches you to trade.
Of cus the emotional aspect won't really come in till you trade live, but that is another skill you will learn all together
author of kissforextrading dot com
  • #55
  • Apr 15, 2013 5:55am Apr 15, 2013 5:55am
Quoting Gumrai
As far as I understood it, it was that 5% make a profit. There's a big difference between making a profit and making a living.
I quite agree with this, a lot of traders i'm sure trade part time. If they make $100 one week, it may not be a lot to live on but it's a nice little bonus on top of their weekly day job salary.
  • #56
  • Apr 15, 2013 9:16am Apr 15, 2013 9:16am
Quoting ReyesWhite
I quite agree with this, a lot of traders i'm sure trade part time. If they make $100 one week, it may not be a lot to live on but it's a nice little bonus on top of their weekly day job salary.
True, I just checked the Study again made by PhD Economist John Forman for his Doctorate, and he talks about accounts "not being profitable"...

So, basically, 99.6% of Live Forex Traders accounts, ARE NOT PROFITABLE after 1 year of trading.

I think it looks even worse than before. I was talking about making a living, but this is even worse. Their accounts are not even profitable (considering that some could be trading part time)...

I don't have official numbers of Casino Sites or Sports Betting Sites, but I guess the numbers of profitable accounts after 1 year of playing/betting, is very similar.
The Black Swan: The Impact of the Highly Improbable
  • #57
  • Apr 15, 2013 2:16pm Apr 15, 2013 2:16pm
Quoting ReyesWhite
If you're confident in your strategy (as it appears) then you could always open up a small £100 account. Trading demo is obviously different from trading a live account but i think if you are confident enough then trading a live account could help improve your confident some more and also earn some money along the way. Your results seem impressive.
thanks still doing well and thanks for your new thread

will take your advice
  • #58
  • Apr 25, 2013 1:58pm Apr 25, 2013 1:58pm
Would I be foolish to jump into live trading while still learning the ropes of the game? It won't be too big of an account but I feel that the live experience would be more beneficial to me as a rookie trader.
  • #59
  • Apr 25, 2013 3:21pm Apr 25, 2013 3:21pm
Hey everyone. I am new to Forex Trading and will gladly appreciate if you guys can help me into this. Any websites that you can advise me to play on?

Thanks,
David.
  • #60
  • Apr 25, 2013 4:04pm Apr 25, 2013 4:04pm
To add in something extra.

I would add that backtesting (or forward-backtesting using something like forextester) is very good. As it allows you to practice executing your strategy a lot, in different conditions. You can build up your experience faster. Especially for longer term trading strategies where it can take a long time to get demo experience.

Backtest, be profitable.
Demo trade to learn the platform (short time).
Demo trade and watch for psychological challenges. (can skip if small money is no issue as long as you do the next small money issue)
Live trade with small amounts and watch for psychological challenges.
Live trade position sizing as comfortable and keep monitoring your trading and psychology.

That's my theory, any thoughts?

Jarrod
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