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  • #41
  • May 10, 2011 6:53pm May 10, 2011 6:53pm
Quoting Aja
Kool! I'll check out your T2W thread. This is an example of what spreads and data smoothing can do to your profits. These are trading copied from my Master system to a couple platforms so I can compare performance with the exact same trades. The 1st is Collective FX - The 2nd is FXDD.

Why the HUGE profit difference? #1 - FXDD has higher spreads than CFX and they're eating into the profit (and their spreads are lower then TP!!) - #2 FXDD smooths the data and trades arent getting as much profit and more loss then CFX (and CFX has 2 sided negative...
thanks a lot!

good stuff!

check out finfx demo

you'll be pleased to run it!

my main worry is reliability and finansial sustainability of this company

cos it is young and not well known

this is what i desire to clarify

hope for your feedback

lucky trading to you!
  • #42
  • May 10, 2011 7:06pm May 10, 2011 7:06pm
Quoting TradingPoint
Hi alstural,

Thank you for your feedback. We are happy to hear both positive and negative comments relating to our company so that we may better our services for our clients and potential clients.

With regards to the spread, yes you are right that at times it does go as high as 2.2-2.5 pips for the EURUSD. Please note that this often happens at times of low liquidity for the said pair, especially throughout the Tokyo and Sydney sessions. Please note that as our spreads are variable, you may be able to obtain better rates throughout the European...
With regards to the spread, yes you are right that at times it does go as high as 2.2-2.5 pips for the EURUSD.

did you want to say as low as 2.2-2.5? it'd be closer to reality

---------------
Please note that this often happens at times of low liquidity for the said pair, especially throughout the Tokyo and Sydney sessions.

early morning asian session eur/usd 3.5-5.2!!!!!
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Please note that as our spreads are variable, you may be able to obtain better rates throughout the European and United States session. In general our spread (for EURUSD) averages out at 1.9 pips, reaching as low as 1 pip at times of high market liquidity.

1 pip is a marketing fairytale
---------

With regards to your comment about commission, could you please elaborate on this as we in fact do not charge any commission;

sorry but i did not get it at all!

1 lot on demo 2 pip profit(logically 20 euros) increased account for only 13.87

what is this?

-----------
more so we have (as of this month) done away fees charged for almost all deposit and withdrawal methods - this includes fees that may have been charged by the third party (e.g. CC provider) for the deposit/withdrawal.

in other words "if you deposite your money with us we will not charge you for this".....very generous!

--------------------------

We are located in Cyprus, our full address listed at the bottom of our website. In fact there are a great number of brokers nowadays located in Cyprus,

this island has become famous nesting ground for multiple bucketshops!
--------------------------

not because of a 'toothless regulation' as you so put it, but more for the fact of its low corporate tax (10%) and great location between Europe, Africa and the Arabic nations. Furthermore please note that in addition to being regulated by CySEC (Cyprus),

well.....one can find many excuses for not being regulated by strong regulatory body.....

------------------------------

we are also registered with such reputable investment commissions as the FSA (UK) and BaFin (Germany).

registration does not mean regulation!!!!!

---------------------------

I was surprised to read your comment with regards to if bonuses matter, as although they may not be with-drawable, they do allow you to hold your position open longer (if it was to go against you) as they give you a greater cushion on which to fall back on as well as allow you to open larger positions. Many of our clients had in the past been seeking bonuses with each of their deposits and as such we have recently introduced the 10% Loyalty bonus from 2nd deposit onwards.

one can just decrease stopout level and no bonus is needed

--------------
as for impression in general

i'd better give my opinion with words of "aja"

".....The spreads are untradable for most strategies.

As much as I'd like to use them I deleted the demo..."
  • #43
  • May 10, 2011 7:53pm May 10, 2011 7:53pm
Quoting alstural
With regards to the spread, yes you are right that at times it does go as high as 2.2-2.5 pips for the EURUSD.

did you want to say as low as...

Hi alstural,

I am a little surprised by the comments made to my response as they are somewhat variant to the truth and reality. I would like to shed some facts that will hopefully allow you to see things more clearly, especially with regards to your comments on commission:

Our spread on the EURUSD in today's Asian session has thus far fluctuated around 2.2-2.5 pips as I have been monitoring the movement - not once have I seen it go above 3 pips, let alone 5.2 as you so claim.

With regards to commission please note, as previously stated, we do not charge ANY commissions.

With regards to the example you gave about a 2 pips profit that gave you a profit of 13.87 and not 20 as you believe you should have please note the following (I am assuming the pair in discussion is the EURUSD and your base currency is the Euro - based on my calculations): When opening 1 lot of EURUSD and you make a profit of 2 pips it does not mean you gain 20 Euro, it means you gain $20. To see the amount reflect in Dollar, right click on the navigator terminal, go to profit and select 'as term currency'. Based on what you have mentioned above you will very likely have the 'as term currency' clicked right now and as such you saw 13.87 Euro (~20/1.4416).

With regards to the deposits and not being charged for depositting - this is not only for deposits, it also applies to withdrawals, as i have already previously stated - it seems you are subtracting out of context the things I mention. As such it is quite generous on our behalf, as If you were to deposit lets say by CC, $100 and then withdraw $100, you would receive $100 as we would pay for the transaction fees both ways.

With regards to our regulation, yes I have mentioned we are registered and not regulated by FSA and BaFin - please note that the Investment Firm law for all European countries originates from the MiFID law, which is then 'deviated' somewhat by each European country by their respective commissions as they deem appropriate.

With regrds to this sentence "one can just decrease stopout level and no bonus is needed" - no one cannot decrease a stop out level, this is a level determined by the Investment Firm providing the service (which for us is 5% for mini accounts and 20% for standard/executive accounts). What one can do is decrease the margin and hence give himself a bigger cushion onto which his trade may fall back on - still one can do this to a greater extent with a greater balance acquired through a Bonus.

I thank you again for your comments and ask you to please, if you are uncertain on something, (especially to us not charging commission) to ask us through this thread rather than just place false information. We will aim to respond to all responses ASAP and with full transparency as we have always had. After all the reputation we have built for ourselves is not through charging commissions, having 5 pips spreads or misleading clients but through our great customer support, transparency and by being smart enough to know that once our clients are satisfied, our success will follow - as such we listen and aim to please our clients through their trading experience with us.

Kind Regards,
Costas
  • #44
  • May 10, 2011 9:10pm May 10, 2011 9:10pm
Quoting TradingPoint
Hi alstural,

I am a little surprised by the comments made to my response as they are somewhat variant to the truth and reality. I would like to shed some facts that will hopefully allow you to see things more clearly, especially with regards to your comments on commission:

Our spread on the EURUSD in today's Asian session has thus far fluctuated around 2.2-2.5 pips as I have been monitoring the movement - not once have I seen it go above 3 pips, let alone 5.2 as you so claim.

With regards to commission please note, as previously stated,...


Our spread on the EURUSD in today's Asian session has thus far fluctuated around 2.2-2.5 pips as I have been monitoring the movement - not once have I seen it go above 3 pips, let alone 5.2 as you so claim.

not today

i meant the start of this week first trading hours

and there were spreads more than 5 pips

but only 2.5-3.5 on dukascopy platform

that means lack of liquidity


another trader already agreed with me but not with you that spreads are not tradable

well...for swing traders spread does not mean much

and they can be glad to trade with your company

but not day traders

-------------------------


After all the reputation we have built for ourselves is not through charging commissions, having 5 pips spreads or misleading clients but through our great customer support, transparency and by being smart enough to know that once our clients are satisfied, our success will follow - as such we listen and aim to please our clients through their trading experience with us.

good luck to your company then

but it seems to me that to define how "great" a service is

such a prerogative belongs to clientele but not to ownes
  • #45
  • May 11, 2011 12:40pm May 11, 2011 12:40pm
alstural,

I am a current Trading-Point customer and am trading a live account with them and I've been very happy with their service.

To clear up some of your misconceptions....

They do *not* charge any commissions.

Their policies for not charging (and also reimbursing any third-party charges) for deposits and withdrawals is fantastic and definitely adds to my bottom line profit. We all know it costs money to move money and I think it's generous (and a good business strategy) for Trading-Point to absorb those costs. For me it works out to saving me $30-$50 USD in bank wire fees for each deposit and withdrawal. That would be a lot more if you are using credit cards or MoneyBookers, etc... at 1%-3%! I don't know of any other brokers that don't charge these fees and also reimburse you for the third party fees.

The trade execution has been excellent. I've had very quick execution of trades with no requotes or slippages.

As for the location/registration/regulation issue, if their location/registration/regulation doesn't meet your criteria for a broker, then move on. They are completely upfront about where they are located, and where they are registered and where they are regulated and not regulated. That is their business decision. What I believe is vitally important is that a broker is completely open and honest about those facts, which Trading-Point is.

The deposit "bonus" is, *in my opinion*, a marketing ploy. If you are not able to ever withdraw the funds, it doesn't have much impact. To me it seems like a temporary increase in available margin levels. However, Trading-Point is completely honest and upfront about the terms and conditions of the "bonus" and Costas has done a great job explaining it and not tried to make it out to be anything more than it is. It may be a marketing ploy, but who cares? It doesn't hurt and I can't blame them for trying a marketing promotion as long as they are completely honest about the terms, which again, they are.

The spreads are a bit higher than other ECN brokers that I've used. This would be an area where I'd like to see Trading-Point try to make some improvement by having spreads that are lower and that have less variability.

But to say that their spreads are "untradable for most strategies" is ridiculous. If you are referring to high frequency and short term scalping, the higher spreads will certainly eat into your profits, but if 1-2 pips will make or break your trading strategy completely, you may want to think about adopting a different strategy.

Again, what is vitally important to me is that a broker is completely upfront and honest about what their spreads are. Trading-Point is honest about their spreads and publishes a spread table at http://www.trading-point.com/spreads (a link to the table is located around the middle of the page). From my trading experiences with them, this is an accurate representation of their spreads. If these don't meet your needs, move on.

I think Costas has been courteous, honest and patient in trying to answer your questions and I think you owe him the same courtesy. Genuine questions are great, but just attacking them for things that aren't true doesn't help anyone.
  • #46
  • May 11, 2011 1:18pm May 11, 2011 1:18pm
I've been trading them on demo for a few weeks. I have to agree, the spread being a little higher should have no bearing on whether to trade with them, unless you scalp all the time. My last 3 trades in profit were for 138, 170, and 247 pips. A 1-2 pip difference is meaningless.

Also, not having a commission, I PREFER that they charge a higher spread. Which would you rather have, a broker that makes their money from the spread, and passes your trade on to their LP, or one that makes their money primarily trading against you and has low or fixed spreads?

I'm still demoing, but if this broker accepts US based clients, then I'll be willing to try them out. I want to get back to 100:1 leverage and hedging capabilities.
Disregard all prognostications.
  • #47
  • May 14, 2011 11:05am May 14, 2011 11:05am
Hi Costas,

In reading the spread table available from the Trading-Point website (http://www.trading-point.com/downloa...tp_spreads.pdf) There is this text at the bottom:

"When you trade with us Trading Point is your counter-party. Your trades are matched and any next exposure above predefined thresholds is hedged with our partner banks (our liquidity providers) at the current market spread."

This sounds like I'm trading against Trading-Point. In fact, the information on the website doesn't claim that Trading-Point is an ECN or STP broker.

Could you clarify how the trades are handled? Is Trading-Point a market maker and taking the other side of the trades? Or are they a true ECN/STP and passing the trade on directly to the liquidity providers? I don't want to be in a position where I'm trading against my broker.
  • #48
  • May 14, 2011 5:57pm May 14, 2011 5:57pm
I have been with TP for several months now and everything has been pretty good up until a few weeks ago. I have noticed slower execution speeds. When I first started trading with TP my orders were executed immediately, but now there is almost always a lag time of 4-5 seconds or longer in some cases and most trades are executed at a price worse than I was quoted. Is this something that you are aware of and if so are you working on a solution to the problem? I'm sure i'm not the only one experiencing this problem.
  • #49
  • May 14, 2011 9:09pm May 14, 2011 9:09pm
Quoting yankees67
I have been with TP for several months now and everything has been pretty good up until a few weeks ago. I have noticed slower execution speeds. When I first started trading with TP my orders were executed immediately, but now there is almost always a lag time of 4-5 seconds or longer in some cases and most trades are executed at a price worse than I was quoted. Is this something that you are aware of and if so are you working on a solution to the problem? I'm sure i'm not the only one experiencing this problem.
sorry but you are very naive

look at this.....

http://www.trade2win.com/boards/fore...form-scam.html

http://www.forexfactory.com/showthread.php?t=70582
  • #50
  • May 14, 2011 11:03pm May 14, 2011 11:03pm
Quoting alstural
sorry but you are very naive

look at this.....

http://www.trade2win.com/boards/fore...form-scam.html

http://www.forexfactory.com/showthread.php?t=70582

So you are saying TP is using Virtual Dealer Plug-In? I'll wait for Costas to address this issue before making any conclusions. If the problem is corrected then all is well. I have no other complaints with TP other than this one issue.
  • #51
  • May 14, 2011 11:44pm May 14, 2011 11:44pm
Quoting yankees67
So you are saying TP is using Virtual Dealer Plug-In? I'll wait for Costas to address this issue before making any conclusions. If the problem is corrected then all is well. I have no other complaints with TP other than this one issue.
you are complaining about worsened execution not me

i do not trade with them(but wanted to try at first though)
  • #52
  • May 16, 2011 3:58am May 16, 2011 3:58am
Alstural
in an earlier post you were looking at brokers where you can scalp, I use investorseurope and have had no problems, fair spreads and good execution, doesnt seem to change if im winning or losing. They have had one or two issues on CFD prices that they told me were due to the clearer they use....but on FX ive been happy.
  • #53
  • May 16, 2011 4:14am May 16, 2011 4:14am
Quoting forexzerosum
Alstural
in an earlier post you were looking at brokers where you can scalp, I use investorseurope and have had no problems, fair spreads and good execution, doesnt seem to change if im winning or losing. They have had one or two issues on CFD prices that they told me were due to the clearer they use....but on FX ive been happy.
thanks a lot

you are the first who answered definitely about investorseurope

i like how demo mt4 works

but cfd spreads are too wide if compared with whselfinvest and fxflat

be so kind to respond

1 your opinion about withdrawals

2 are demo and live accounts any different

3 live platform freeze disconnect(it happens wth demo a bit)

regards and lucky trading
  • #54
  • May 16, 2011 4:23am May 16, 2011 4:23am
CFDs as i said, and i agree they have some issues, they say in June they are revamping CFD list and pricing so will see.
Withdrawals are fine....well standard, get an email back same day then abt 48hrs later the money hits.
Demo acct not sure as i dont look at it ant more but from memory yes same. Havent noticed any live platform issues. they are variable spreads so at news times spreads widen etc but that doesnt bother me as i dont trade news events
  • #55
  • May 16, 2011 4:33am May 16, 2011 4:33am
Quoting forexzerosum
CFDs as i said, and i agree they have some issues, they say in June they are revamping CFD list and pricing so will see.
Withdrawals are fine....well standard, get an email back same day then abt 48hrs later the money hits.
Demo acct not sure as i dont look at it ant more but from memory yes same. Havent noticed any live platform issues. they are variable spreads so at news times spreads widen etc but that doesnt bother me as i dont trade news events
big thanks

i'll try them a bit later

nice pips to you!
  • #56
  • May 16, 2011 9:28am May 16, 2011 9:28am
Hi All,

Thank you for your patience in our response and for the questions posed. The questions raised leave room for us to explain in depth our execution methodology and address some of the more serious issues that traders are concerned with. As always we will be fully transparent in our responses and welcome any questions/queries that may be raised further to our comments below:


Virtual Dealer:

As it has been previously stated within this thread, Trading Point does not and has never used any type of virtual dealer. Please note that this plug-in is used only with instant execution (we provide market execution). As you may or may not know, the purpose of the virtual dealer is to delay the client’s execution and provide re-quotes when deemed necessary. In an STP environment there are no re-quotes; your order goes straight through to the liquidity provider and you are filled at the market price. Needless to say a broker that aims to operate with an STP model of execution cannot use instant execution and thus cannot use a virtual dealer.

At Trading Point our clients receive market execution, not instant execution, and as such we are able to provide our no re-quotes and no rejection policy (with the exception of some clients that demand to be placed on instant execution due to the limitation of their expert advisors – as always we are flexible to our client’s preferences). With Market Execution, it is implied that your order is filled at the best available market price. There are no re-quotes and a virtual dealer cannot be applied. It is the way in which the interbank market works and we believe it is the best execution model.


Dear yankees67,

As I am not aware of your Login number/identity, it is a little hard to give you an exact reason as to why there was a delay in your trades; as such I will mention the most probable scenario:

Please note that almost all of the orders executed within milliseconds, however during high market activity (often experienced at times of important news releases) there are cases in which there may be some delay, up to several seconds, as orders arrive in huge numbers and are placed in the queue for execution. Our team works very hard in eliminating any delays, especially as we thrive in not rejecting any orders or giving any re-quotes. Faster execution (at times of high market activity) will be attained through the optimal server allocation program that has already begun with the aim to enable us to provide the best execution in the market.

Should you wish for me to more closely examine your case, please do PM me with your Login number and I shall act accordingly. We acknowledge that the most important factor in trading is execution, most other variables/factors are mere marketing tools in our opinion, and as such we strive to provide on an ongoing basis for the best execution in the market.


Dear Dozer,

With regards to Trading Point being your counterparty, kindly note that your counterparty is always the broker you open an account with, irrelevant if that broker is STP or Market Maker. Our business model is based on income that is generated from client volume and not from client losses. As we fully cover your trades with our liquidity providers (counterparties), we do not trade against you or for that matter any of our clients.


Execution during fast moving markets:

When the market moves fast, as it is the case during news, from the time you click to trade until it reaches your broker’s servers, the price may change. If your broker covers their exposure, as we do, then it is important for them to trade at better prices than you in order to make a profit. The brokers in such a scenario have three options.

Re-quote you (instant execution)
Reject your order (both instant and market execution)
Execute your order with slippage (market execution)

We strongly believe that the best option is the third. It is our view that when you place a trade, the fairest way a broker should treat you is to honor your trade and give you the market price.

Imagine if you will a scenario in which you have an open order and news comes out which forces the market to rapidly move against you. You then attempt to close your order, but by the time your order arrives at your broker’s server the price changes and your order is either rejected or re-quoted. You attempt again to close the order but the market keeps moving fast and your order(s) keeps being rejected and/or re-quoted. The loss you experience at such times is quite substantial and may wind up your account. Slippage is unavoidable in this case, however with market execution, in such a scenario you will be filled at the best available market price at the time.

Please note slippage in some occasion’s works with you, a scenario often seen when you try to close a trade at a time that the market is moving in your favor, and you are subsequently filled at a better price than you requested.


Trading Point: Execution of Stop Orders:

Suppose that right before the news EURUSD is 1.4110 and you place a BUY Stop order at 1.4120. The market right after the news gaps to 1.4150. Unavoidably you will get filled at 1.4150 where the market price is instead of 1.4120, as we ourselves must be able to cover our exposure, something which we cannot do at a price of 1.4120, as our liquidity provider also must cover his exposure etc.

Please bear in mind that brokers are there to make a profit and will not allow a client to create a scenario in which the broker is guaranteed to lose when covering their client’s trade (i.e. Cover the client at a worse price from their liquidity provider). Some brokers choose to make their money ethically and professionally while some others don’t. The same applies for traders. Some want to trade ethically and some don’t. Instead they use specific expert advisors that aim to request off market or even previous prices.

I hope that the above clarifies some of the issues regarding Trading Point’s execution methodology and trading practices. Should you have further queries or comments or wish for something to be clarified in greater depth please do not hesitate to ask. We are always happy to answer any questions posed and will, as always, be fully transparent in the way in which we operate – if it is to your preference, you are more than welcome to join us!


Kind Regards,

Costas
  • #57
  • May 16, 2011 11:42am May 16, 2011 11:42am
Thank you Costas for your quick response and indepth explanations on these issues. This is what sets TP apart from a lot of other brokerages that I have dealt with in the past. Customer service seems to be a top priority. I look forward to a long and prosperous relationship with TP.
  • #58
  • May 16, 2011 1:38pm May 16, 2011 1:38pm
Costas - thank you so much for taking the time to answer fully all the questions on this thread. This kind of service and commitment is unheard of these days. Regards,
Marlin Man
  • #59
  • May 17, 2011 9:41am May 17, 2011 9:41am
Costas, would you please explain what "commits to return these fees" means for Neteller and Moneybookers. I have not used either of these, btw.
  • #60
  • May 17, 2011 5:17pm May 17, 2011 5:17pm
Dear TradingPoint,

I was just badly wipped out by a fake spike on my current broker's MT4 terminal and have filled a complain. What do you have to say about this issue in particular?
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