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OANDA Discussion

  • #1,341
  • Dec 15, 2010 4:42am Dec 15, 2010 4:42am
Quoting floortrader
OANDA is doing a big marketing push to highlight that they have the highest percentage of profitable traders. I don't know how much of that we can credit the company for but its def good press.
Except their profitability numbers are completely skewed by their inclusion of dormant accounts which are interest-baring (and thus are considered 'profitable'). This competely distorts the banner ad proclamations..

I'm hoping the CFTC revises the formula (or better yet, the rest of the brokers begin paying interest on deposits). Until then, it's an apples to oranges comparison..
  • #1,342
  • Dec 15, 2010 5:42am Dec 15, 2010 5:42am
Quoting Adilius07
what do you mean by transparent and straightforward what is it? Their spread are tight most of the time and executions are good, that is your point?
Hi,

By transparent and straightforward, I meant the way they approach clients with regards to, for example, their trading conditions. Most other brökers will do things like say "as low as 0.6 pips" spreads, which is usually just some marketing trick because you will probably only see that spread for 1 minute a day and the rest of the time it's 2.5 pips. It is pure bullshit and yet most brökers do it.

That is one example. Other examples are:

- Not one single web advertisement has been used for all these past years (this has changed quite recently). People knew about them only from what other people are saying about them.
- They don't discriminate. Somebody with a $1 account will get the exact same conditions (spreads, leverage, etc) as someone with a $100,000 account.
- They don't believe in IB (introducing bröker/rebates) programs because they don't think some 3rd party should be profiting from your spreads or getting better spreads than you.
- They pay interest in a unique and fairer way.
- Current open orders in their orderbook are always kept visible on their website (albeit not too useful to trade with since it doesn't reflect the entire interbank market's sentiment), along with a history of spreads, and a history of interest.
- They published this manual to help raise forex traders' awareness of their rights.

No other bröker is doing these things. Needless to say though, they're a business and like any business their aim is to profit and attract more clients (make no mistake), but at least they're being transparent with you, unlike most internet forex brökers out there. That is what I meant by transparency.
  • #1,343
  • Dec 15, 2010 12:33pm Dec 15, 2010 12:33pm
Quoting Trader KGB
Except their profitability numbers are completely skewed by their inclusion of dormant accounts which are interest-baring (and thus are considered 'profitable'). This competely distorts the banner ad proclamations..

I'm hoping the CFTC revises the formula (or better yet, the rest of the brokers begin paying interest on deposits). Until then, it's an apples to oranges comparison..
Dormant accounts were not included. That thing has already been asked many times and you still don't get it.
  • #1,344
  • Dec 15, 2010 1:03pm Dec 15, 2010 1:03pm
Quoting A_3
Dormant accounts were not included. That thing has already been asked many times and you still don't get it.
Well I myself am still unsure about this CFTC outcome... its not like the way they produced those statistics is transparent for everyone to read.

The results are visible, but NOT the way they produced those results...

Or am I wrong?

But I am on your side, ... I am sure that the AMOUNT of profitability has been implemented in this statistic... Or what else? If you create a stat like that you have to give the 20% profitable account 200 times more weight then the 0.2% profitable acounts . And I would certainly believe this was the way here.
this pig cannot be slaughtered for ever... or can it?
  • #1,345
  • Dec 15, 2010 6:40pm Dec 15, 2010 6:40pm
i just demo in oanda.....
sharpshooter.......
  • #1,346
  • Dec 15, 2010 8:18pm Dec 15, 2010 8:18pm
Quoting georgem
Well I myself am still unsure about this CFTC outcome... its not like the way they produced those statistics is transparent for everyone to read.

The results are visible, but NOT the way they produced those results...

Or am I wrong?

But I am on your side, ... I am sure that the AMOUNT of profitability has been implemented in this statistic... Or what else? If you create a stat like that you have to give the 20% profitable account 200 times more weight then the 0.2% profitable acounts . And I would certainly believe this was the way here....
I told people here at the beginning of this discussion that Oanda was probably using a weighted way of showing success ratio as a marketing tool.

But retail traders are slow to understand....
  • #1,347
  • Dec 16, 2010 1:32am Dec 16, 2010 1:32am
Anybody uses the just upgraded iphone app? I think it's great! But i have a big problem, i can't place SL any more there must be a bug or something, am i the only one experiencing this?
  • #1,348
  • Dec 16, 2010 4:57pm Dec 16, 2010 4:57pm
Quoting A_3
Dormant accounts were not included. That thing has already been asked many times and you still don't get it.
You still don't get it, you are the one who is mistaken.

"OANDA’s numbers therefore reflect profitable accounts even if those accounts were with slight loss or dormant the paid interest may have made them profitable."

http://forexmagnates.com/oandas-high...lude-interest/
  • #1,349
  • Dec 16, 2010 5:19pm Dec 16, 2010 5:19pm
Quoting Beman
Anybody uses the just upgraded iphone app? I think it's great! But i have a big problem, i can't place SL any more there must be a bug or something, am i the only one experiencing this?
I can't place SLs either. Frustrating. This is a pretty cool app though. Anyone able to?
  • #1,350
  • Dec 16, 2010 5:42pm Dec 16, 2010 5:42pm
Quoting Platypus
I told people here at the beginning of this discussion that Oanda was probably using a weighted way of showing success ratio as a marketing tool.
Of course they are. I have no beef with Oanda, but the disparity between Oanda's figures and everyone else's is too great to ignore. Competitors in any business will exploit everything available to them. Oanda has found a technical loophole and turned the reporting rule in their favor. Often the difference between a winning and losing business is shameless self-promotion. I won't be surprised to see all brokers suddenly having a higher ratio of winning traders as they fine tune their tallying method and start paying .0000001% interest, etc. You can bet their teams are hard at work right now. Oanda just beat the others to the punch on this one, that's all.
  • #1,351
  • Dec 16, 2010 6:06pm Dec 16, 2010 6:06pm
i started recently with oanda,and i can say they are great,i dont give a flying F*8* about win ratios,bonuses or other support crap that people usually look in brokers.I need someone who wont try to scam or hunt for my account and who wants to do business with me,Oanda is a market maker and so far its the best one with most customers for people with small budget.because i believe those who have accounts with five digits are on ecn and direct market.So if you dont like it theres plenty of others in this market to choose from.
  • #1,352
  • Dec 17, 2010 1:25am Dec 17, 2010 1:25am
Want to know where we can view historical chart below 1 min on Oanda?
On the way
  • #1,353
  • Dec 17, 2010 3:48am Dec 17, 2010 3:48am
Quoting ForexSooth
I can't place SLs either. Frustrating. This is a pretty cool app though. Anyone able to?
I've contacted the support and they've opened a ticket, could be a problem between european/usa iphone, i'll give further info when they'll contact me.
If anyone knows something please let us know!!
  • #1,354
  • Dec 17, 2010 3:52am Dec 17, 2010 3:52am
Quoting Rfbfx
Does anybody is using in live trading the Blackberry Oanda app?
I am evaluating several brokers , as i need Mobile trading.
I have both an iphone and BB .
I thanks if anybody share some experience on the subject.
On iphone trading is very good, easy, fast execution, unfortunately charts aren't the best, but they aren't either on the web platform compared to MT4. Overall i'm very satisfied with it.
P.S. looks like someone (me included) after the last update (downloaded sunday) have some trouble placing Sl, but it should be a momentary problem, hope they'll solve it fast.
  • #1,355
  • Dec 17, 2010 6:37am Dec 17, 2010 6:37am
Quoting billflet
Of course they are. I have no beef with Oanda, but the disparity between Oanda's figures and everyone else's is too great to ignore. Competitors in any business will exploit everything available to them. Oanda has found a technical loophole and turned the reporting rule in their favor. Often the difference between a winning and losing business is shameless self-promotion. I won't be surprised to see all brokers suddenly having a higher ratio of winning traders as they fine tune their tallying method and start paying .0000001% interest, etc....
Yes, oanda surely has some features that help explain the difference.
With oanda you can indeed open a 5$ account, and they WILL pay interest on that. Most other brokers will demand that you have at a minimum a 1000 bucks before they let you play.

If indeed all the forgotten 5$ accounts of wannabe oanda traders were counted as profitable because now they show 5.01$ then the statistic is worthless!

EXCEPT, when all those thousand positive 5$ accounts were eliminated by only one big loser who played with 50k $ and lost half of it, because he was bearish CHF. Then the statistics make sense again.
this pig cannot be slaughtered for ever... or can it?
  • #1,356
  • Dec 17, 2010 10:20am Dec 17, 2010 10:20am
Quoting georgem
If indeed all the forgotten 5$ accounts of wannabe oanda traders were counted as profitable because now they show 5.01$ then the statistic is worthless!

EXCEPT, when all those thousand positive 5$ accounts were eliminated by only one big loser who played with 50k $ and lost half of it, because he was bearish CHF. Then the statistics make sense again.
They wouldn't get eliminated though. They are either profitable or not. One thousand winners, even if they only win a penny, would still count as a thousand winners. The 50k CHF loser would only be counted as 1 loser, no matter how much he had at play.
  • #1,357
  • Dec 17, 2010 11:07am Dec 17, 2010 11:07am
I found the way to resolve the problem Apple problem (i hope just for now) setting>general>international>Regional format (i don't know how do you translate this but it's the button above the calendar)>english>USA
  • #1,358
  • Dec 17, 2010 11:13am Dec 17, 2010 11:13am
Quoting billflet
They wouldn't get eliminated though. They are either profitable or not. One thousand winners, even if they only win a penny, would still count as a thousand winners. The 50k CHF loser would only be counted as 1 loser, no matter how much he had at play.
Ok, so we have the core issue surrounded.
Now if only someone of the actual brokers or CFTC could give a statement about this assumption.

If the million dollar trader had one vote, just like the 5$ trader, then this statistic is utter BS!
this pig cannot be slaughtered for ever... or can it?
  • #1,359
  • Dec 17, 2010 12:33pm Dec 17, 2010 12:33pm
Quoting georgem
If the million dollar trader had one vote, just like the 5$ trader, then this statistic is utter BS!
I'm pretty sure that was the case.

A million dollar account of a forex professional that ended with 40% of profit would count as one profitable account. A $1 account that ended with a balance of $1.01 would equally count as one profitable account.

In the link that TraderKGB provided (http://forexmagnates.com/oandas-high...lude-interest/) an Oanda representative was present in the discussion below. He actually claimed that those stats prove the 95% long-term profitability "myth" to be false. That is ridiculous.

What I agree with however is that trading conditions such as spreads do have a significant effect statistically. As little as 1 pip difference in spreads can create a difference of 10% between winning and losing accounts. A 1 pip difference in spreads may not seem like much in the short run, but its effect will compound in the long run especially if you're a daytrader.
  • #1,360
  • Dec 17, 2010 12:38pm Dec 17, 2010 12:38pm
Quoting billflet
Of course they are. I have no beef with Oanda, but the disparity between Oanda's figures and everyone else's is too great to ignore....
About your comment on why other brokers don't use the same tactics Oanda is using....well......I spent a few hours and did some study about this broker and I was surprised to see how astute they seem to be.

How can they still be able to go around the FIFO rule?
Their multiple "accounts" in the same environment allows you to hedge, another work around the rules.
They give you incredible short time frames but their long term charts just go up to the daily and their charting history is mediocre.

etc.....etc...etc..

They are a very focused company in the sense that they are trying to attract a certain type of costumers in one hand (scalpers) but in the other they claim to have a few costumers with billions dollars account.

I would say that the vast majority of scalpers pay the tab for the minority professionals accounts and everything stays inside the bucket with minimal need from their outside liquidity providers.

I guess they were making like 70% profits few years ago, don't know right now.

50/50 is break even not profit. It means that half of their costumers feed the other half . Can you swallow something like that?

When 95% feed 5% than the ones that know what they are doing can have e decent compensation for their efforts. Thats a business model that have grounds but 50/50 is just BS.
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