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  • #601
  • Jun 25, 2010 9:54pm Jun 25, 2010 9:54pm
Quoting Hyper
By the way, I think this issue needs a new separate thread, as it is not just about Go Markets.
Good point.

But I don't know any smooth way to do that. Pauljr, since your posting (#578 pips and spreads dont care if your money is not safe) led this off, you might want to go start a new thread and we can follow in turn to replicate what we have done here.

I don't know of any other way to do it unless one of us starts copying everybody's postings over to a new thread.

Over to you pauljr
  • #602
  • Jun 25, 2010 10:29pm Jun 25, 2010 10:29pm
So your saying that there isnt a brokerage that guarantees your deposit and profits?
Annoying Precision
  • #603
  • Jun 25, 2010 11:10pm Jun 25, 2010 11:10pm
Quoting erikte279
So your saying that there isnt a brokerage that guarantees your deposit and profits?
i don't think there is a single business in the entire world that guarantees any money you give them.

schools close doors overnight, shops close doors overnight, mines close doors overnight... every place of business can disappear overnight. if you have paid for a learning course, or layby'd a suit, or purchased abcde but have yet to realise the swap from your money to goods / services, and the place you put your money goes belly-up overnight then you will likely suffer a loss of money. even banks can potentially disappear, and the 'guarantee' you get is usually from the government in a form of "in the event your bank disappears we will try to reimburse you... if we can", which is no guarantee at all.

trading is about risk / reward... how much of your cash you are going to risk for some degree of reward. the thing is, this doesn't stop with trading. everything has risk vs reward. crossing the street... dating some girl... investing in a new business... getting out of the bed on the left side instead of the right... speeding in a car. some things have more obvious or higher risks, and it is these things which we notice more than the innocuous things.

trading is an obvious risk. with this risk is also the risk of having too much money with a brokerage who may go bankrupt.

life is one big game of risk vs reward, and the only guarantee is that at some point you will lose-out.
Congratulations ScalaFX for coming out of the closet!
  • #604
  • Jun 25, 2010 11:19pm Jun 25, 2010 11:19pm
. So I guess your answer is no.
Quoting nubcake
i don't think there is a single business in the entire world that guarantees any money you give them.

schools close doors overnight, shops close doors overnight, mines close doors overnight... every place of business can disappear overnight. if you have paid for a learning course, or layby'd a suit, or purchased abcde but have yet to realise the swap from your money to goods / services, and the place you put your money goes belly-up overnight then you will likely suffer a loss of money. even banks can potentially disappear, and the 'guarantee'...
Annoying Precision
  • #605
  • Jun 25, 2010 11:22pm Jun 25, 2010 11:22pm
I'm not speaking of anomalys, barring catastrophic business failure.
Annoying Precision
  • #606
  • Jun 26, 2010 1:28am Jun 26, 2010 1:28am
Quoting Abinadi
Good point.

But I don't know any smooth way to do that. Pauljr, since your posting (#578 pips and spreads dont care if your money is not safe) led this off, you might want to go start a new thread and we can follow in turn to replicate what we have done here.

I don't know of any other way to do it unless one of us starts copying everybody's postings over to a new thread.

Over to you pauljr
I do agree and therefore I started a new thread

Client Agreements and PDS issues.

I hope you will join.

see you there

Pauljr
  • #607
  • Jun 26, 2010 1:30am Jun 26, 2010 1:30am
Quoting erikte279
So your saying that there isnt a brokerage that guarantees your deposit and profits?
Please go over to the new post, I'll will give my reaction there.
  • #608
  • Jun 26, 2010 1:57am Jun 26, 2010 1:57am
Quoting nubcake
i don't think there is a single business in the entire world that guarantees any money you give them.

schools close doors overnight, shops close doors overnight, mines close doors overnight... every place of business can disappear overnight. if you have paid for a learning course, or layby'd a suit, or purchased abcde but have yet to realise the swap from your money to goods / services, and the place you put your money goes belly-up overnight then you will likely suffer a loss of money. even banks can potentially disappear, and the 'guarantee'...
Pleas follow to the new thread for my reation,

thanks.
  • #609
  • Jun 26, 2010 8:29pm Jun 26, 2010 8:29pm
Pages 36 to 39 of the Go Markets Product Disclosure Statement (PDS) references several types of orders not usually supported on the MT4 platform - specifically One Cancels the Other (OCO).

Does anyone here know how Go Markets fullfills that PDS promise of OCO in light of the MT4 non-support of such an order?
  • #610
  • Jun 27, 2010 1:40am Jun 27, 2010 1:40am
Quoting Abinadi
Pages 36 to 39 of the Go Markets Product Disclosure Statement (PDS) references several types of orders not usually supported on the MT4 platform - specifically One Cancels the Other (OCO).

Does anyone here know how Go Markets fullfills that PDS promise of OCO in light of the MT4 non-support of such an order?


Hi Abinadi,
I’m not sure how Go Markets fulfils that promise, but I put a link here that takes you to a free EA that will OCO your trades for you.
http://www.forexfactory.com/showpost...postcount=3175
  • #611
  • Jun 27, 2010 9:09pm Jun 27, 2010 9:09pm
I know that there has been a new thread started, which I think is the best place for this, but seeing as many people were talking about how funds are held with Australian brokers and Go Markets was mentioned, I thought I would just clarify somethings.

Client funds are deposited into a client trust account at the National Australia Bank. The funds are segregated from our own funds, but not individually for each client. This is as per the ASIC regulations and the corporations act. The client funds held with us are not used for our own business purposes such as paying wages and other expenses. We also have professional indemnity insurance which gives further protection to client funds.

There are a couple of important things to note about our business and how we may be different to Sonray and other brokers who have experienced problems. We only allow clients to trade on cleared funds. This means clients cannot choose to not pay us should they incur a loss on trading.

We have an automatic stopout procedure in place for each and every client. This is in place to try and protect against negative balances. This is of course not always possible in Forex as the market is fast moving, and there is the possibility of gaps over the weekend. As such the largest negative balance we have had is around A$2,000.

We as a business are embracing potential developments from ASIC and as such have put in place measures which mean that we will not send client funds for margin requirements to our hedging partners.

We, like many of the brokers in Australia have recently had a review from the regulator and as such discussed at length the industry and the systems we have in place and as part of that have updated many of our legal documents to ensure full disclosure.

If any of you have more questions, please feel free to contact us directly.
  • #612
  • Jun 28, 2010 1:10am Jun 28, 2010 1:10am
So your saying that clients funds arent used in any situation other then the clients trading, ever?

[quote=GoMarkets;3833344]I The client funds held with us are not used for our own business purposes such as paying wages and other expenses. [quote]
Annoying Precision
  • #613
  • Jun 28, 2010 6:05am Jun 28, 2010 6:05am
Quoting GoMarkets
I know that there has been a new thread started, which I think is the best place for this, but seeing as many people were talking about how funds are held with Australian brokers and Go Markets was mentioned, I thought I would just clarify somethings.

Client funds are deposited into a client trust account at the National Australia Bank. The funds are segregated from our own funds, but not individually for each client. This is as per the ASIC regulations and the corporations act. The client funds held with us are not used for our own business purposes...
thanks for your input here.

It is good to see that we have someone that is willing to discuss the issue.
But I do think the question ERIKTE279 puts up is still in place.
There is a big difference in business purposes like paying wages etc and the active trading, that you do as well.

please can you advice on that a little more detailed.

thanks in advance
  • #614
  • Jun 28, 2010 7:29pm Jun 28, 2010 7:29pm
Quoting pauljr
thanks for your input here.

It is good to see that we have someone that is willing to discuss the issue.
But I do think the question ERIKTE279 puts up is still in place.
There is a big difference in business purposes like paying wages etc and the active trading, that you do as well.

please can you advice on that a little more detailed.

thanks in advance
In response to your questions we do not use client funds for anything other than client trading.

Further to that, to clarify, we do not to any proprietary trading at Go Markets and of course do not have any dealers or so on and so forth that may require margin - we are purely STP.
  • #615
  • Jun 28, 2010 11:29pm Jun 28, 2010 11:29pm
Quoting GoMarkets
In response to your questions we do not use client funds for anything other than client trading.

Further to that, to clarify, we do not to any proprietary trading at Go Markets and of course do not have any dealers or so on and so forth that may require margin - we are purely STP.
Thanks for your answer.

But then again, I don not understand, why Gomarkets has a term like this in their client agreement. You can take it out !!!.


... This includes withdrawing money from your account(s) to
satisfy our margin arrangements with our OTC
Derivatives Provider, including dealings on
behalf of other clients.

In the event of our insolvency or default you may lose any
entitlement to money due from us..
  • #616
  • Jun 29, 2010 12:53am Jun 29, 2010 12:53am
ASIC is the Australian company regulator and they have lots of licensing conditions etc that must be adhered to. A lot of the time they enforce certain wording in an effort to force companies to be as transparent as possible in their dealings. I wouldn't be surprised if ASIC made them put it there.
  • #617
  • Jun 29, 2010 9:56pm Jun 29, 2010 9:56pm
Quoting pauljr
Thanks for your answer.

But then again, I don not understand, why Gomarkets has a term like this in their client agreement. You can take it out !!!.


... This includes withdrawing money from your account(s) to
satisfy our margin arrangements with our OTC
Derivatives Provider, including dealings on
behalf of other clients.

[b][u][i]In the event of our...
Guys, this discussion in a way here is hillarious. Their PDS states it all and THAT IS WHAT MATTER because the PDS (Product Disclosure Statement) is a LEGAL DOCUMENT! So no matter what discussion you have here and no matter how much certainty you are looking for here, at the end of the day if anything goes down, in a court of law, you ARE RESPOSIBLE for signing their PDS agreement when opening your account. They clearly state in the PDS that "you may lose your money" in certain circumstances - regardless of segretated funds etc etc.

No matter what the representative tells you here in the forum, this is not a LEGAL document. You cant take this discussion to court and say, "your honor, but on ForexFactory he told me my funds will be safe" LOL!

Unfortunately it is what it is on what you've signed. Look at Sonray company (search it on google) that went bust a few days ago ...

"One of the country's biggest intermediary brokers, Melbourne-based Sonray Capital, collapsed at 11pm yesterday, freezing 3000 client accounts."

It was regulated - now clients suffering and cant access their funds.

My point here is, make your own decisions - you are the one risking money with certain brokers.

I've already left GoMarkets, due to their dodgy fills and delayed executions. Now their new PDS states it all! Nothing was fixed and i can assure you 200% this was manipulated on their side since i was comparing it with another individuals acocunt whose execution was perfect.

You are delusioned if you say that you are opening an account with an Australian Broker, becuase its safe within Australian Banks - remember its not under your name, its still under the "company's" name - to make it fancy they use the word "segregated account" (yes segregated from the company's personal account - lol).
  • #618
  • Jun 30, 2010 12:40am Jun 30, 2010 12:40am
Quoting topdogg
"One of the country's biggest intermediary brokers, Melbourne-based Sonray Capital, collapsed at 11pm yesterday, freezing 3000 client accounts."

It was regulated - now clients suffering and cant access their funds.

My point here is, make your own decisions - you are the one risking money with certain brokers.
My God does that point really need to be made? are individuals on this forum that silly think that they don't know this already?

Companies fail all the time, god look at the us in the last few years. is this really such big news. you read the pds you know the terms.

Quote
I've already left GoMarkets, due to their dodgy fills and delayed executions. Now their new PDS states it all! Nothing was fixed and i can assure you 200% this was manipulated on their side since i was comparing it with another individuals acocunt whose execution was perfect.

Here we go the manipulation crap is back. I have been a client and traded with Go since mid 09 why don't I get these issues? and yes friends of mine don't have these issues either..... so your such a great trader they picked on u.... bullshit...... I bet you have crap internet and don't know what the true meaning of market excicution is when you try to plow into a news release.

I read some posts on here about the fill delays, all I know and saw was GoMarkets come on and answer the qs and fix the issue.

Toppdog did you ever call them and ask for help to solve the issue like a normal person whould or did you just cry on a public forum about daydreams on manipulation????

Quote
You are delusioned if you say that you are opening an account with an Australian Broker, becuase its safe within Australian Banks - remember its not under your name, its still under the "company's" name - to make it fancy they use the word "segregated account" (yes segregated from the company's personal account - lol).

yeh this is stated in the PDS, atleast the australian government has these rules. in the UK with Alpari they only segregate a % that's real safe LOLLOL.... when i had a account with them they had in their pds 5k will be. that's rubbish and for that to be happening in the UK is a bigger joke.

Now onto Sonray, since it's being compared to GoMarkets..... Sonray offered cfds on stocks Go don't. think about it, stocks gap 1-10%= per day dose that happen in FX? so in the recent sell offs off the back of the GFC wouldn't you think that massives losses could add up a lot more? I trade FX so I am in 24 hour market since I trade on leverage.

Sonray went down but to compare them to Go based on the business structures is stupid.

and to see people like yourself are still on about individual maniplation just makes me laugh.

Cheers,
  • #619
  • Jun 30, 2010 12:53am Jun 30, 2010 12:53am
@toppdogg There--someone finally said it. Policies, promises and best of intentions are worthless if the company holding your money goes broke. Debating it here is an exercise in futility. In the event of bankruptcy, maybe GoMarkets will pay, maybe they won't. In the end, a judge will decide. Even if the decision goes in our favor, there is still no guarantee. If there is no money there, no one gets paid. That's the inherent risk.

That being said, I'm not implying bad things about GoMarkets. I have a live account with them and I'm happy so far. If GoMarkets could convince me that I'm wrong about the risk, I'd be happier yet. But until then I'll accept the risk--as we all did when we signed on.
BTW: I'm not having the execution problems, at least not to the extent some folks are having.

GoMarkets may be structured in a way that everyone will get paid if the unthinkable happens. But they are not going to make any such promise here and if they do, it'll have no real value. I chose them on a friend's recommendation while searching for a non-U.S. broker. "Segregated account" has a nice ring to it and is certainly better than the opposite, but it doesn't mean your account is risk free. Show up the institution where it's held and try to withdraw your own funds without GoMarket's nod, even during the best of times, then imagine trying it during a bankruptcy.

I don't envy anyone who comes on this site as a broker's (any broker's) rep. Must be like being a salesman in a tough neighborhood, and without the commissions.
  • #620
  • Jun 30, 2010 1:01am Jun 30, 2010 1:01am
^ Totally agree. As I said earlier in this thread, your money is never 100% safe in any business dealings. When a company starts to go downhill all bets are off, if they've got access to your money they'll use it!

I personally have no problems with GoMarkets and will continue to use them.
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