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  • #721
  • Mar 12, 2010 1:26pm Mar 12, 2010 1:26pm
Wow, Jason, you want me to cool your guns?? HAHA, great reply, I have spoken to FXCM reps myself and read alot of the contract, so I knew this stuff already. But I want to thank you and your company for fielding questions and providing us answers here in Forex Factory. I do have to point out that your spread is a little more than it could be, but I get NDD STP for the extra money I pay you and am happy to do that. Also you have currently at least 11 pairs that I can trade for 500 usd deposit on a full lot, with 200:1 leverage with your UK accounts, I am with you because of that also. I hope you are getting paid to monitor this thread, and to let you all know, I am not, I am just a regular trader/member of FF.

Quoting Jason Rogers
I know the easy post to make the blanket statement that "X broker" is a market maker, and everyone is entitled to their opinion. Your timing is prescient since I just finished writing a detailed explanation of NDD execution for someone that asked me to explain on another forum (which I have provided below). You can also read a very concise overview of NDD execution in the FXCM US trading agreement as the NFA requires every broker to have. http://www.fxcm.com/docs_pdfs/trading_agreement.pdf Counterparty disclosure page 7. It outlines...
  • #722
  • Mar 12, 2010 1:40pm Mar 12, 2010 1:40pm
Quoting Jason Rogers
I don't know how to answer the same question any differently and at the risk of you saying i'm repeating myself.

We are moving from dealing desk to NDD on micro due to changes in regulations and the operational costs that will be associated with it. NDD is a volume based business so spreads will be the same as standard 10k accounts. As your trading volume increases, your the total cost can be decreased through the Active Trader program.
The point that you purposely avoid is that STP/NDD is cheaper to run b/c there is no human intervention. As far as Activer Trader program, the commission of $5 per ticket is not inline with similar services offered by other brokers and is highly inflated, and the $25K required is also not inline with what is required for similar services offered by other brokers. So that is not a viable option. As I said, good luck running a non-competitive, price wise, broker.
  • #723
  • Mar 12, 2010 1:51pm Mar 12, 2010 1:51pm
Quoting wwwin
The point that you purposely avoid is that STP/NDD is cheaper to run b/c there is no human intervention.
Micro through the dealing desk was nearly completely automated as well. As you mentioned yourself "I never had one re-quote in 2 years".
  • #724
  • Mar 12, 2010 1:53pm Mar 12, 2010 1:53pm
Quoting akatom2u
Wow, Jason, you want me to cool your guns?? HAHA, great reply, I have spoken to FXCM reps myself and read alot of the contract, so I knew this stuff already. But I want to thank you and your company for fielding questions and providing us answers here in Forex Factory. I do have to point out that your spread is a little more than it could be, but I get NDD STP for the extra money I pay you and am happy to do that. Also you have currently at least 11 pairs that I can trade for 500 usd deposit on a full lot, with 200:1 leverage with your UK accounts,...
Hi akatom2u,

Welcome to the thread

-Jason
  • #725
  • Edited 2:11pm Mar 12, 2010 1:56pm | Edited 2:11pm
Quoting Jason Rogers
Micro through the dealing desk was nearly completely automated as well. As you mentioned yourself "I never had one re-quote in 2 years".
Fine, even if both are the same cost, which they are not as nearly automated is not the same as completely automated, the reason for the increase in spread is not moving to STP/NDD as it is being marketed. That is my whole point. The marketing dept. wants us to believe that somehow moving to STP necessitates the higher spread. Nothing is further from the truth.
And, since as you state, the micro is nearly completely automated, then I am basically being asked to pay almost double the cost for essentially the same trading service, minus the live support and minus the free mobile trader.
  • #726
  • Edited Mar 14, 2010 3:39am Mar 13, 2010 2:01pm | Edited Mar 14, 2010 3:39am
Quoting sonicpunk32
If this is all hype, then I must say, I've been falling for it for the past 6 months. So you're saying an NDD/STP is basically just a robot dealing desk that is just as vicious and malicious as a human dealing desk but more precise and robust? And this gives the broker legal power to proudly use phrases like "banks cant see your stops," "no conflict of interest between broker and trader," and such?
Well that might be right. If you think you are better off with STP/NDD because your broker is not the market maker but the liquidity provider bank is, think again...look how manipulative banks are...They have their own specialized flash trading algorithms to get an advantage over traders, squeezing profits out of traders by a few pips or maximizing loses by a few pips, by manipulating the order in which trades are posted, and this is done in miliseconds....They can use supercomputers to in milliseconds step in front of your order, slip you 1 pip or 2, and then fill your order for a pip or 2 of guaranteed profit, all done in milliseconds. Do a google search on "flash trading" and see examples of what super computers can do ...http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/18/bu...8regulate.html
http://seekingalpha.com/article/1503...-everyone-else

remember if you win they lose.

Here is another example of how banks maximize profits...they have software that manipulates when they post charges to maximize overdraft fees...They had specifically programmed algorithms to maximize the charges.

"If a checking account contained $100, and a debit-card user made purchases of $20, $30, $40 and $90, in that order, they should have only incurred a single fee for overextending their account -- on the final $90 purchase. At that point, their account would have only held $10.

Instead, he said, banks reordered cardholder transactions, subtracting $90 first, then the rest of the charges. Then customers would be hit with a $35 overdraft fee three times, instead of once.
http://www.miamiherald.com/2010/03/1...overdraft.html


Oh yes, the great benefits of STP/NDD. Micros, don't be surprised if slippage increases when the change occurs. Compare current slippage to what happens later on. And keep in mind, you are being automatically slipped by 1 pip already in every trade by the spread increase coming on 3/18/10. Oh yes, the great benefits of STP/NDD.
  • #727
  • Mar 13, 2010 2:43pm Mar 13, 2010 2:43pm
On dailyfx+ in Technical analyzer I can not see charts...I have instaled latest version of Java...still doesnt work. I have no problem with anything else related to dailyfx+ nor any other website...I have internet explorer 8
I contacted FXCM and only answer was to install latest Java...

Anyone has idea what can be problem...?
The Market pays you to be disciplined
  • #728
  • Mar 13, 2010 2:48pm Mar 13, 2010 2:48pm
Quoting mima
On dailyfx+ in Technical analyzer I can not see charts...I have instaled latest version of Java...still doesnt work. I have no problem with anything else related to dailyfx+ nor any other website...I have internet explorer 8
I contacted FXCM and only answer was to install latest Java...

Anyone has idea what can be problem...?
On IE7 it asks should I also show unsecured pages the answer is Yes, on IE8 the question is the opposite, should I block unsecured pages, the answer is NO.
This has nothing to do with Java, it has to do that you are in secured site, and the charts are from an unsecured site.
Attached Image
  • #729
  • Mar 13, 2010 2:57pm Mar 13, 2010 2:57pm
Quoting wwwin
On IE7 it asks should I also show unsecured pages the answer is Yes, on IE8 the question is the opposite, should I block unsecured pages, the answer is NO.
This has nothing to do with Java, it has to do that you are in secured site, and the charts are from an unsecured site.
O man, thank you so much...yes it works...no problem...
The Market pays you to be disciplined
  • #730
  • Mar 13, 2010 3:06pm Mar 13, 2010 3:06pm
[quote=wwwin;3548594]....
Here is another example of how banks maximize profits...they have software that manipulates when they post charges to maximize overdraft fees...They had specifically programmed algorithms to maximize the charges.

"If a checking account contained $100, and a debit-card user made purchases of $20, $30, $40 and $90, in that order, they should have only incurred a single fee for overextending their account -- on the final $90 purchase. At that point, their account would have only held $10.

Instead, he said, banks reordered cardholder transactions, subtracting $90 first, then the rest of the charges. Then customers would be hit with a $35 overdraft fee three times, instead of once.
http://www.miamiherald.com/2010/03/1...overdraft.html
.../quote]

Yes that is right ..I have that experiance....I did not know reason what happened..
The Market pays you to be disciplined
  • #731
  • Mar 14, 2010 7:03am Mar 14, 2010 7:03am
Quoting >Apocalypto<
ok then I have made it up..... the fact is you have 10 massive banks working non stop to give little old FXCM the best prices out there...bullshit, your daily volume would be a pittance in the deep liquidity section of the interbank.....
Wow. Go read a market microstructure book. Banks love trading against retail flow, since it's the most uninformed flow you can find. For somebody talking with interbank traders like you do, basic stuff like this should be obvious. And good luck finding ANYBODY who will take the other side of your trade without believing they will win eventually, either through the spread or by assuming you are uninformed.
  • #732
  • Mar 14, 2010 7:14am Mar 14, 2010 7:14am
Jason, is there any difference between trading forex through a normal FXCM UK account versus a CFD one?

I seem to remember that on CFD accounts you had a minimum distance from the market where you could put your limit orders.

So, what are the differences for trading EUR/USD between a regular and a CFD account?
  • #733
  • Mar 14, 2010 5:47pm Mar 14, 2010 5:47pm
Quoting Adal
Wow. Go read a market microstructure book. Banks love trading against retail flow, since it's the most uninformed flow you can find. For somebody talking with interbank traders like you do, basic stuff like this should be obvious. And good luck finding ANYBODY who will take the other side of your trade without believing they will win eventually, either through the spread or by assuming you are uninformed.
I never said they didn't. My points are being made at FXCM not how the liquidity providers deal on the interbank. I don't get how your reply has any relevance to what I am talking about with Jason?
  • #734
  • Mar 14, 2010 6:32pm Mar 14, 2010 6:32pm
Quoting >Apocalypto<
I never said they didn't. My points are being made at FXCM not how the liquidity providers deal on the interbank. I don't get how your reply has any relevance to what I am talking about with Jason?
You implied that the banks don't have any reason to compete for FXCM orderflow. I just gave you a reason - access to uninformed traders. Here, the same thing in the US equity market: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Payment_for_order_flow The payment is translated to lower spreads/commissions for clients because of competition between brokers. So in a funny way, retail has tighter spreads than institutions.

You said that FXCM volumes are tiny. They may be small compared with the often mentioned multi-trillion dollar daily volume, but they are certainly not tiny. Retail forex is already over 2% of daily volume, and I think there is an article on FT Alphaville saying it's over 5% now.

If you think 2% is tiny, check out Wikipedia for the top 10 forex traders - number 10 is BNP Paribas, with 2.26% of daily volume. As one of the top retail brokers, the volume going through FXCM is not tiny.
  • #735
  • Mar 14, 2010 6:52pm Mar 14, 2010 6:52pm
Quoting Adal
You implied that the banks don't have any reason to compete for FXCM orderflow. I just gave you a reason - access to uninformed traders. Here, the same thing in the US equity market: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Payment_for_order_flow The payment is translated to lower spreads/commissions for clients because of competition between brokers. So in a funny way, retail has tighter spreads than institutions.

You said that FXCM volumes are tiny. They may be small compared with the often mentioned multi-trillion dollar daily volume, but they...
That still doesn't prove much......... the main argument is FXCM is a marketing image and that's about it.

You sound a little like JR Adal??? you r not a paid supporter are you? (strangers thing have happened on FF.)

anyway, I am interested in talking with JR mainly, no offence to you. on top of that I have got my point across and JR will not budge. it's a waste of time going on with it. If people are happy at FXCM with what they're and pretend to be then that's fine.

good trading to all.
  • #736
  • Mar 14, 2010 7:18pm Mar 14, 2010 7:18pm
Quoting >Apocalypto<
That still doesn't prove much......... the main argument is FXCM is a marketing image and that's about it.

You sound a little like JR Adal??? you r not a paid supporter are you? (stranger thing have happened.)
Nice one, attack me for being a shill. Look at my post history. When I mentioned FXCM was either when talking about the ticks I downloaded from them (and from Dukascopy, GAIN Capital and dbFX) or when I appreciated that they are big and well regulated (as I think a broker should be, and like the other 3 brokers from above).

I'm not defending FXCM, I'm just stating the facts.

Want me to say something bad about FXCM? Like I said in another post of mine: their "no negative balance guarantee" is bullshit. In their contract it's clearly stated that in case of "Force Majeure" or "exceptional circumstances" (which can be quite benign, like loss of connectivity or central bank intervention) no such guarantee exists anymore. You can become liable for any negative balance. Jason, care to comment? I'd be interested how many times that clause was invoked.

I don't understand what you mean by "marketing image". They certainly will take my trades. And if I'm right, I'll make money. If I'm not, I'll lose. If they scam me in some way, I'll yell about it.

Now if there are traders which believe the "forex is easy money" lies, tough luck for them. They will find out the truth the hard way. Compared to other fly-by-night 0-spread 500:1 brokers, FXCM is more restrained here. No "easy money" ads on the front page.
  • #737
  • Mar 14, 2010 7:44pm Mar 14, 2010 7:44pm
Very funny to read the posts from Jason and all these other pro-FXCM guys.

From the FXCM site:
"No Dealing Desk means No Dealer Intervention"

First of all that means nothing or could be anything.

If that would be true FXCM will showing real interbank quotes,market depth and spreads without manipulating it by marking up spreads.
Oh yeah right,FXCM must include the commission inside.

"No conflict of Interest Between You and FXCM—
We Want Profitable Traders!"

You must be kidding.
It that also would be true you will do everything the trader will get the best conditions in any situation (HIGH VOLATILE MARKET with very fast order execution,slippage control and tight spreads).

The NDD is a marketing gag but nothing else.
  • #738
  • Mar 14, 2010 8:50pm Mar 14, 2010 8:50pm
Quoting Mr-Forex
From the FXCM site:
"No Dealing Desk means No Dealer Intervention"


"No conflict of Interest Between You and FXCM—
We Want Profitable Traders!"
That's the funniest one that I have read for quite some time.
  • #739
  • Edited Mar 15, 2010 7:30am Mar 14, 2010 8:56pm | Edited Mar 15, 2010 7:30am
Quoting Mr-Forex
"....We Want Profitable Traders!."

The NDD is a marketing gag but nothing else.
Sure they want profitable traders, that's is why the raised the spread 76%. http://cdn.forexfactory.com/images/s..._the_floor.gifhttp://cdn.forexfactory.com/images/s..._the_floor.gifhttp://cdn.forexfactory.com/images/s..._the_floor.gif

Hmm I wonder what they would do if they didn't care whether a trader was profitable or not.

Even the E-Trader commercial toddler knows that the STP/NDD gives the trader no advantage, it is an excuse to charge higher spreads.
  • #740
  • Mar 14, 2010 8:57pm Mar 14, 2010 8:57pm
You guys are missing the point...completely.

When people from FXCM come here and tell you that they are not market makers they are telling you the truth. They are a high end bucket shop .
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