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The Holy Grail (trade posting thread)

  • #1
  • First Post: Dec 18, 2007 4:00pm Dec 18, 2007 4:00pm
Since so many people are jumping onto the Holy Grail (specifically the JohnW strategy) bandwagon why don't we see people start posting their trades.

Only post if you will do it LIVE or if you will post account statements.

NO DEMO TRADES ALLOWED.


Go.


(I am not an advocate of the method until I see results.)
  • #2
  • Dec 18, 2007 4:32pm Dec 18, 2007 4:32pm
Nice.... Better yet, how about JohnW start a journal. "Holy Grail Live Trades," as self congratulatory as that sounds. lol
  • #3
  • Dec 19, 2007 9:57am Dec 19, 2007 9:57am
I'm very much a skeptic of the 97% claim, but the system does look interesting.

For those following it, look out for a potential setup going short the USDCAD. Seems to meet the daily trend requirement (50 and 100 EMA), and it needs to break a low from yesterday at 1.0011 (on my platform). Don't forget the spread!

Now for the fuzzy/subjective part: I also see a trendline just above 1.9980. So maybe it needs to break that instead of just 1.0011. But others may draw trendlines differently. This is where John W could step in and show exactly what he looks for...
  • #4
  • Dec 19, 2007 9:05pm Dec 19, 2007 9:05pm
Mighty silent in here considering all of the people trading this method. Why?
  • #5
  • Dec 20, 2007 12:03am Dec 20, 2007 12:03am
Yeah, I'm not even on this bandwagon but I suggested a setup. I thought a "true believer" would give the trade specifics so they could start the next run of 235 out of 240 winners (or whatever the claim was).

Instead, I see people making wishy-washy calls on the other thread and they're already changing the rules: trading against the 50/100 EMA daily trend, etc. Oh well. I guess we'll never know.


Quoting JFX81
Mighty silent in here considering all of the people trading this method. Why?
  • #6
  • Dec 20, 2007 1:34pm Dec 20, 2007 1:34pm
Exactly

Nobody has posted a single call (with proof of a transaction) let alone an account statement, yet there are still people drooling on themselves over that method.

Nobody is saying the method is bad. What we ARE saying, however, is that this type of thread is typical and dangerous for the uninitiated to follow so blindly. In fact, if anyone goes back and looks at the thread, most of the cheerleaders are new to trading whereas the 1kt traders are asking for answers and proceeding with caution. It is like an open manhole where people crossing the street for the first time fall into it and the experienced folks peer in shaking their heads.

Still waiting for posts...
  • #7
  • Dec 20, 2007 2:09pm Dec 20, 2007 2:09pm
Why would anyone post in this thread with such a negative atmosphere?


Quoting JFX81
Exactly

Nobody has posted a single call (with proof of a transaction) let alone an account statement, yet there are still people drooling on themselves over that method.

Nobody is saying the method is bad. What we ARE saying, however, is that this type of thread is typical and dangerous for the uninitiated to follow so blindly. In fact, if anyone goes back and looks at the thread, most of the cheerleaders are new to trading whereas the 1kt traders are asking for answers and proceeding with caution. It is like an open manhole where people crossing the street for the first time fall into it and the experienced folks peer in shaking their heads.

Still waiting for posts...
  • #8
  • Dec 20, 2007 3:08pm Dec 20, 2007 3:08pm
Quoting fxprocessor
Why would anyone post in this thread with such a negative atmosphere?
Negative atmosphere? Since when is asking for proof of an incredible claim negative? If the system is so great with a near perfect winning ratio of 97% you would think people would be jockeying for position to post in this thread about their actual wins!

You see, the longer it remains silent in here the more one has to question just how effective the system truly is.

Seriously, something has to balance a thread that is called the "holy grail" of trading.

The thing is that there are apparently a decent amount of people buying into the trading style discussed in the other thread that, presumably, hundreds of people have viewed . In the end there has been NOTHING offered in terms of live calls or the posting of account statements to substantiate what is going on over there.

I would love more than ANYTHING for people to start posting in here about how much they are raking in.

I doubt that people are refraining from posting simply because they don't like the atmosphere surrounding the thread. If anything, it should draw in people to post their incredible wins and calls to rub it in the face of the naysayers.

It is 100 times more damaging and dangerous to post a purported holy grail system in a beginner forum full of people easily convinced that trading is easy than it is to make another post asking for proof or trading calls, no?
  • #9
  • Dec 20, 2007 3:32pm Dec 20, 2007 3:32pm
Even if numerous people post bad calls here doesn't mean his trading method doesn't work for him. I'm sure that a lot of the systems on FF are traded successfully by some and not others.

What makes you think a decent setup has been available since you started this thread? How often does he trade, I have no idea but maybe his criteria is very strict.

He says "The fact is each and every one of you have the holy grail within, and you can not buy it. All you need to do is THINK and exercise discipline. "

Is the discipline element something that would keep him out of trades for now?

Just another perspective.



Quoting JFX81
Negative atmosphere? Since when is asking for proof of an incredible claim negative? If the system is so great with a near perfect winning ratio of 97% you would think people would be jockeying for position to post in this thread about their actual wins!

You see, the longer it remains silent in here the more one has to question just how effective the system truly is.

Seriously, something has to balance a thread that is called the "holy grail" of trading.

The thing is that there are apparently a decent amount of people buying into the trading style discussed in the other thread that, presumably, hundreds of people have viewed . In the end there has been NOTHING offered in terms of live calls or the posting of account statements to substantiate what is going on over there.

I would love more than ANYTHING for people to start posting in here about how much they are raking in.

I doubt that people are refraining from posting simply because they don't like the atmosphere surrounding the thread. If anything, it should draw in people to post their incredible wins and calls to rub it in the face of the naysayers.

It is 100 times more damaging and dangerous to post a purported holy grail system in a beginner forum full of people easily convinced that trading is easy than it is to make another post asking for proof or trading calls, no?
  • #10
  • Dec 20, 2007 4:47pm Dec 20, 2007 4:47pm
Quoting fxprocessor
Even if numerous people post bad calls here doesn't mean his trading method doesn't work for him.
Of course not, yet to claim a 97% winning streak over 240 trades with approximately 30 pip stop loss is a very very tall claim that I am sure everyone would love to be true.
Quoting fxprocessor
I'm sure that a lot of the systems on FF are traded successfully by some and not others.
There is no question about it. The same holds true for even the best fund managers.
Quoting fxprocessor
What makes you think a decent setup has been available since you started this thread?
People are posting a lot in the other thread about setups (none of which have been confirmed by JohnW). It would be nice to keep track of them in one thread and to see make sure the method is being traded correctly. But think about it, even if someone's winning percentage dropped to 85%, with a 30 pip stop, it would be incredible.
Quoting fxprocessor
How often does he trade, I have no idea but maybe his criteria is very strict.
The jury is still out on this so again it is possible.
Quoting fxprocessor
He says "The fact is each and every one of you have the holy grail within, and you can not buy it. All you need to do is THINK and exercise discipline."

Is the discipline element something that would keep him out of trades for now?
Who knows, but to assert that everyone has it in them to not only be a good trader but to find their own holy grail is, at best, a little much.
Quoting fxprocessor
Just another perspective.
It is appreciated and on point as far as I am concerned. This type of thing should be discussed here for all of the beginners to see.
  • #11
  • Edited 5:11pm Dec 20, 2007 5:09pm | Edited 5:11pm
It would be great seeing JohnW post more examples because I agree with you that the percentage winning ratio does sound very high and is indeed a tall claim.




Quoting JFX81
Of course not, yet to claim a 97% winning streak over 240 trades with approximately 30 pip stop loss is a very very tall claim that I am sure everyone would love to be true.
There is no question about it. The same holds true for even the best fund managers.
People are posting a lot in the other thread about setups (none of which have been confirmed by JohnW). It would be nice to keep track of them in one thread and to see make sure the method is being traded correctly. But think about it, even if someone's winning percentage dropped to 85%, with a 30 pip stop, it would be incredible.
The jury is still out on this so again it is possible.
Who knows, but to assert that everyone has it in them to not only be a good trader but to find their own holy grail is, at best, a little much.


It is appreciated and on point as far as I am concerned. This type of thing should be discussed here for all of the beginners to see.
  • #12
  • Dec 20, 2007 7:31pm Dec 20, 2007 7:31pm
My Holy grail...is ForeX Factory. haha. g'nite
"Diversification is an excuse for a lack of talent" ~FXC
  • #13
  • Dec 20, 2007 8:30pm Dec 20, 2007 8:30pm
well, I would certainly be interested ..choppy week.
these breakout systems are very hard to ensure so I am also skeptical.
If there are concrete rules than it easy. but "bias" or resistance of 2 x over 18 hours etc is probably not enough to quit your day job.
  • #14
  • Dec 21, 2007 10:54am Dec 21, 2007 10:54am
The problem here isn't that JohnW shared his system (a nice thing to do) or that people are interested in it. The problem is the claim of 97% winners. Now, no one wants to even test that claim in this folder? Some have said they'd be happy with 70% winners. There are two problems with that:

1) If that's the case, aren't you bothered by the false claim? If 97% winners is overblown, how do you know that 70% winners isn't as well? I've tested a lot of systems, and finding one that can produce 70% winners year after year, even with 20 pip targets/30 pip stops, is a lot harder than most people think.

2) John stated that he only targets 10 pips for AUD/USD and USD/CAD. With 70% winners, you're now in the land of negative expectancy. Also, I believe he uses IBFX as a broker. The spreads on both pairs are 5 pips. A 10 pip target with a 30 pip stop and 5 pips of spread to overcome? You better have a very high win rate!

FWIW, I'm not calling JohnW a liar or putting down his system. I'm just saying we need proof, and so far there's been none.
  • #15
  • Dec 21, 2007 7:40pm Dec 21, 2007 7:40pm
does anyone know the exact rules to this system?
Please enlighen me someone!
  • #16
  • Dec 23, 2007 8:48am Dec 23, 2007 8:48am
Quoting 4XWeezal
does anyone know the exact rules to this system?
Please enlighen me someone!
Not sure about exact rules, but here is the original thread, a few pages in you will find JohnW post on how he trades:
http://www.forexfactory.com/showthread.php?t=59775
Liberate me ex inferis
  • #17
  • Dec 27, 2007 1:36pm Dec 27, 2007 1:36pm
Still quiet here.

What a shame.
  • #18
  • Dec 27, 2007 9:53pm Dec 27, 2007 9:53pm
JohnW's method is to some extent discretionary. Even if I were to trade 20 successive losses and journal them here, it would prove nothing, except that I'm probably not trading JohnW's ideas the same way that he would have. And whatever might be posted here, or anywhere else, has no bearing on JohnW's prior track record.

Furthermore, at least as far as I know, nobody is claiming that the 97% win rate is indicative, let alone sustainable. Everybody who reads enough understands that profitable systems somehow exploit market inefficiencies, and hence that win rate can only be sustained for as long as, and to whatever extent, the same inefficiencies continue to recur.

JohnW is apparently not seeking to prove anything. He has (very generously) explained as much as he wants to about his approach, and is now quietly once again going about his business.

As for misleading newbies, there are plenty of amazing claims here, from "$1k to $126k in a week" to expectations of making 20%+ per month, or 1,000%+ per year. With leverage and some luck almost anything is possible. Conversely, there are excellent sticky threads by Diallist, PeterFM, and others, that explain the realities of consistently profitable trading, for whomever wants to take the time to read them.

David
  • #19
  • Jan 7, 2008 10:40am Jan 7, 2008 10:40am
Tons of setups being called on the other thread but no live trades.

Post up your trades, live, and maybe the strategy's originator will critique your entry.
Probably not, but its worth a shot since people seem to be risking money.
  • #20
  • Jan 7, 2008 10:57am Jan 7, 2008 10:57am
  •  mld
  • | Joined Sep 2007 | Status: Pips Raining Cats & Dogs | 85 Posts
Holy Grail must be touched directly, can't be archived guys, it happens when the accuracy of a trade is exploding within the trader
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