The Holy Grail - Found | Page 12 | Metals Mine

Options

Go to
Permalinks
Print Thread

Similar Threads

Your own HOLY Grail (and how you know you've found it) 19 replies

Developing the "Holy Grail" Trading System 4 replies

I may have found the Holy grail 75 replies

I think I found a holy grail. 17 replies

Attachments: The Holy Grail - Found
Exit Attachments

The Holy Grail - Found

  • #221
  • Dec 14, 2007 12:21am Dec 14, 2007 12:21am
Interesting. If nothing else this thread has opened a few minds. All the while though two things have been bugging me.

1) the 97.5% win ratio of closed trades and no mention of MM,

2)
Quote
You need courage to risk $$ (even my method has losses) and patience to wait for good setups. BTW, I NEVER EVER enter a market order (that's a clue). I use only stop orders.

All I can think of is that it is some kind of grid system, but then the PA element doesn't really fit in. I've seen grids working well in the short to medium term but in the long run they appear destined to fail.
  • #222
  • Dec 14, 2007 4:43am Dec 14, 2007 4:43am
Quoting SunTrader
I'd vote for Ru Paul over the guy who is in there now. But unfortunately the powers that be will make sure Hillary is the one. They are all lining up behind her.

yup ! i've been saying hillary will win for a long time........do you mean Ru Paul, the transvestite singer ???

i still remember Ross Perot.......must have been forced to drop out of the election, eh ?
  • #223
  • Dec 14, 2007 4:46am Dec 14, 2007 4:46am
Quoting opie999
Nothing specific yet but, no matter. The exchange of ideas and trading philosophies more than makes up for it. I'm learning a ton even if JW never posts again!
Sure. Just file an absentee ballot. You're a US citizen, right?
opie.......what makes you think i'm American ?

do i sound like one ?

but we're in the same boat because my country is also controlled by the same guys controlling America too !
  • #224
  • Dec 14, 2007 5:04am Dec 14, 2007 5:04am
Quoting findcount
i still remember Ross Perot.......must have been forced to drop out of the election, eh ?
No he didn't! He pulled a big part of the conservative vote (protest votes) and was most likely the reason Bill Clinton became president.
  • #225
  • Dec 15, 2007 3:57am Dec 15, 2007 3:57am
Quoting blueruby
No he didn't! He pulled a big part of the conservative vote (protest votes) and was most likely the reason Bill Clinton became president.
so the old goat was just part of the entertainment..........so is the old goat still alive ?

must be a hundred by now, right ?
  • #226
  • Dec 15, 2007 4:51am Dec 15, 2007 4:51am
  •  Trader#0000
  • | Status: Unregistered Trader
A agree. Like you I have spent many 3 years totally learning every day, every week, every month. I traded over ten years as well. I agree totally - PA is the fountain of gold. Its no simple game, as much as some try to sell indicators and lessons by picking one or two aspects.

Hear no evil, speak no evil, see no evil. Don't listen to others, Don't tell others what trades or how you trade, Don't look how others trade. Take the PA and watch it and listen to what it is telling you.

Patience and Persistence - means watch PA until you have courage. Courage means confidence. Confidence means you know where the PA is going. All things are driven by PA. Indicators, etc. Until one realises that PA is vastly different dependent on whether the bears or bulls are in control, then one has not arrived. i.e. how do you tell? if you are not altering indicator coefficients dependent on market, bull or bear PA, currency, nature of market (ranging or trend) etc-- then you have not even started to see the reality.
  • #227
  • Dec 15, 2007 7:04am Dec 15, 2007 7:04am
JohnW, where are you? I'm eager to learn!
Liberate me ex inferis
  • #228
  • Dec 15, 2007 7:40am Dec 15, 2007 7:40am
Quoting SPT
A agree. Like you I have spent many 3 years totally learning every day, every week, every month. I traded over ten years as well. I agree totally - PA is the fountain of gold. Its no simple game, as much as some try to sell indicators and lessons by picking one or two aspects.

Hear no evil, speak no evil, see no evil. Don't listen to others, Don't tell others what trades or how you trade, Don't look how others trade. Take the PA and watch it and listen to what it is telling you.

Patience and Persistence - means watch PA until you have courage. Courage means confidence. Confidence means you know where the PA is going. All things are driven by PA. Indicators, etc. Until one realises that PA is vastly different dependent on whether the bears or bulls are in control, then one has not arrived. i.e. how do you tell? if you are not altering indicator coefficients dependent on market, bull or bear PA, currency, nature of market (ranging or trend) etc-- then you have not even started to see the reality.
Great post, SPT. You should join in more often, it seems you would have a lot to offer those that take heed.
  • #229
  • Dec 15, 2007 7:44am Dec 15, 2007 7:44am
Quoting SPT
A agree. Like you I have spent many 3 years totally learning every day, every week, every month. I traded over ten years as well. I agree totally - PA is the fountain of gold. Its no simple game, as much as some try to sell indicators and lessons by picking one or two aspects.

Hear no evil, speak no evil, see no evil. Don't listen to others, Don't tell others what trades or how you trade, Don't look how others trade. Take the PA and watch it and listen to what it is telling you.

Patience and Persistence - means watch PA until you have courage. Courage means confidence. Confidence means you know where the PA is going. All things are driven by PA. Indicators, etc. Until one realises that PA is vastly different dependent on whether the bears or bulls are in control, then one has not arrived. i.e. how do you tell? if you are not altering indicator coefficients dependent on market, bull or bear PA, currency, nature of market (ranging or trend) etc-- then you have not even started to see the reality.
Now you're talk'n. Preach it brother!
Robonacci com
  • #230
  • Edited 7:00pm Dec 15, 2007 9:16am | Edited 7:00pm
excellent post: SPT
: However, for me -- having my 3 years worth of trading is that
I am not capable of manual risking the kind of dough without fear. Therefore, I take the automated route --- shut my monitor off , go to work, come home and see how much I made. PA is a big parameter in automation. I am a sell trained coder so I don't have the inhibitors of training. (ie taking a simple concept and coding the crap out of it so that it makes it difficult to change and then being anal with it all) Also, I don't have to worry about a trend line breaks at 3:00 am in in the morning. I guess, I would advise newbees to learn how to code simply. Its really not that difficult. I would advise against buying ea's unless you really know what your getting. Most eas' I have seen are genuine cra_ . Very little concept, thought process or market condition evaluated. In fact, I have been through about 1000 on a lot of sites and have yet to see one worth 2 squirts of goat pis_There are some wonderful trend indicators, osc and bar closes that can be easily incorporated in your own conceptual design. Also, I read about a 97.5% win rate...I don't think much more than 90% is achievable automated. Even with market conditioned ea's ... There is always a market predator to kick you in the chops. And i know, John w. asks do you need an indicator to tell you the market is trending? Yes, I do. I can't live with out it. There are a lot of systems and traders using indicators as bias factors. Should ou want to buy into an oversold bought condition on certain time frames? do you want to trade with the 4 hr or the daily or against? What constitues a trend? What about moving trends? How are you going to handle chop? when does the market go from trending to chop? If a flat pattern materializes what is the extension? I mean, for newbees, you better know this stuff oh, and also if someone actually did post the wholly grail, no one would believe it anyway., most would follow the "math" folks and really not understand the big picture.
  • #231
  • Dec 15, 2007 11:51am Dec 15, 2007 11:51am
Great thread, wonderful hearing from others that use no indicators. I myself just use fibs and trendlines, and sometimes stochastics to spot divergence or hidden divergence. I just discovered this thread, so I'll be hoping to contribute any way I can.
  • #232
  • Edited 9:27pm Dec 15, 2007 4:23pm | Edited 9:27pm
Hey John,

interesting thread.

I stripped my charts about two months ago. Up to know my favorite indicator has been the COT. This is really sounding a lot like a professional trader I know who trades naked and talks a lot of 'objective' supply and demand. He makes his methods available to some and like you has said that two people given the same info will not be able to trade his method until they break their beliefs about what they're looking at, and his method is very air tight not discretionary at all. From all you've said you may as well be him.

My thoughts have echoed your posts for some time, though I haven't hit the 'aha' yet, I hope to. But I can't always get outside the box to see what's staring me in the face. Really great methods can be given to people and many will go, "No that's not it, it's more difficult than that, I need more indicators to make it harder so I won't see the obvious." It seems until people change their beliefs about something everything else is invisible, I'm certainly no exception but I'm getting better...I believe. Traders get so tied up with predicting price they forget to stop and ask "Who is moving price and what are their objectives?" "What caused price to stop there?" "Where won't price go?"

All my life I've had a hard time solving crimes until I discovered I wasn't thinking like a criminal. I have to wonder if the reason I can't figure out price is because I'm not the big money...hopefully it stops at the non criminal aspect of comparison.

Two comments that are probably not too telling but I found interesting:

Quote
"Always follow the long term (>daily) trend."
I've been gravitating more and more toward weekly, monthly charts,

and

Quote
"My method uses primarily S/R levels and long term trends. S/R levels are determined by swings and trend lines."
So you can play this off diagonal and not just horizontal S&R? I also find it relieving you commented on keeping an eye on fundamentals as well.

So it is most likely a type of breakout chart pattern combined with trend and very high R to R with possibly a similar pattern to exit trades, but not something that is commonly looked at as obvious or everyone would have spotted it (or maybe no one's really looking for it,) and not something that gets hit all the time but when it does is a real winner. Sounds like some type of swing pattern that is somehow qualified but rarely if ever shoots past the qualifiers; trading into the candles again 'ey? Problem is, like my music theory teacher used to say, "You can't hear 15th century music with 20th century ears." I'm already so programmed by all the crap I've seen I'm having quite the time deprogramming.

Feel free to toss any comments back.




>
  • #233
  • Dec 15, 2007 5:36pm Dec 15, 2007 5:36pm
Quoting Angler
hi...


I see this thread is still moving along......WHY...he has already told you he will not be explaining his method at this time..


The thread starter has only made about 9 posts here from just over 100 posts...


stop hitting you head up against the wall guys....

I have now given it free of charge to at least 12 posters that requested it.
Chance favors the prepared
  • #234
  • Dec 15, 2007 5:47pm Dec 15, 2007 5:47pm
Quoting lowell
Hi JohnW,
I've been following this thread with interest. I am curious how the training with the 2 friends is coming?

So far I am getting them past the fact that losses do occur, even with my method. Now I am involved in teaching them money management while they demo trade. Things are progressing nicely. Thanks
Chance favors the prepared
  • #235
  • Dec 15, 2007 6:00pm Dec 15, 2007 6:00pm
Quoting inflxshn
Hey John,



So you can play this off diagonal and not just horizontal S&R? I also find it relieving you commented on keeping an eye on fundamentals as well.

>

Yes, I use diagonal & horizontal S/R lines. When I see S/R from horizontal lines in close proximity to S/R from trend lines (diagonal lines), I know I have a stronger S/R level. If price breaks both S/R, I am confident that I have a good trade opportunity.
Chance favors the prepared
  • #236
  • Dec 16, 2007 7:38am Dec 16, 2007 7:38am
JohnW how far are you on the doc file? I am anxious to start to demo your method
  • #237
  • Dec 16, 2007 9:03am Dec 16, 2007 9:03am
John, I would also like to have a copy of the .doc, please. Thanks in advance.
  • #238
  • Dec 16, 2007 10:30am Dec 16, 2007 10:30am
Quoting dedhed
John, I would also like to have a copy of the .doc, please. Thanks in advance.

thanks john for the pm! i was wondering if what you sent me was the same as the word.doc file you are preapring, if not i would greatly appreciate another pm when you finish.... great stuff!
  • #239
  • Dec 16, 2007 10:37am Dec 16, 2007 10:37am
Hi John,

I sent you an email: I would also like to have a copy of your document.

Thanks very much indeed.
  • #240
  • Dec 16, 2007 10:37am Dec 16, 2007 10:37am
Hi John,

I would PM, but I can't yet. Can you please send me a copy of the doc. I've been following the thread with interest, and I would like to learn more. Thanks.
Visit my journal here.
4 traders viewing now