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Your own HOLY Grail (and how you know you've found it) 19 replies

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The Holy Grail - Found

  • #141
  • Dec 10, 2007 12:16pm Dec 10, 2007 12:16pm
Quoting SKUNNY
I'm sure you do just fine making all kinds of money. I'm happy to hear that and it tells others it is possible. Just because a trader is making money, it doesn't mean he really understands why he is making money.


Ponder this, when you have a bad trade do you know why? I do, I'm not tooting my horn here (on purpose) but if you have a system where you can't figure out why, you have more work to do. That's why we are here discussing this stuff
Yup, as I said it earlier, Stop loss is a part of a trading system, not a protection of a failure.

Newbies, think about it!

Trainee at UBS Investment Banking
  • #142
  • Dec 10, 2007 2:05pm Dec 10, 2007 2:05pm
Quoting Brunite
John,

With all due respect, I ask you the following:

You advertise (on your site) a 140% return on investment over a 12 month period. I assume you state this in an effort to suggest to people that you "might" be able to repeat this in their accounts.....right? And; you make your claim in an effort to increase your INCOME by managing their account.....you have motive.

OK.....nothing wrong with that. That is what free enterprise is all about.

JohnW says he has something great.....a discovery that he wants to share.....he is willing to drop some hints to help those who are sincerely searching......his methods may work for some.....others are free to ignore what he has to say and move on......and he does this free-of-charge.

I guess the rub for me here is that you "feel" that 12 months of trading results is sufficient for you to solicit others peoples money for a fee but that 240 trades is not sufficient time for JohnW to claim that he has found something special that he is willing to talk about for no cost.
I understand your point and respond by saying that every year of trading I complete upwards of 1000 trades and have always been profitable year for year. The monitor account is my own personal account that I trade in the same trading style I offer for managed accounts. To achieve such results means you have to be willing to take risks, and those are fully disclosed. Remember, I pointed out that it is easy for traders to get euphoric about periods of extreme success, which *could* be accentuated by having a long record of consistent losses. That is the main point I was trying to make.
Quoting Brunite

You feel he "dissed" your profession......you call his thread "absurd"......everyone is even now.
He dissed the profession by painting every trading mentor as a fraud. That is simply irresponsible and uninformed. It may very well be his personal experience, and for that I am truly sorry if he has been misled or ripped off.
Quoting Brunite
Please.......don't misunderstand. I am not knocking you at all. Just thought I saw a little bit of hypocrisy.....we all do that from time to time.....especially me!
I am always up for a positive and spirited debate and don't take one bit of offense to your comments in this thread. I think the thing that irks me is that, yes, we are all here to learn; but blanket statements about Holy Grails can be misleading.

My view is that everyone can potentially find their OWN Holy Grail trading method. As discussed previously, some people can trade certain methods very well while others fail miserably. I just don't want people who are new to this to think that there is a magic formula one way or the other
  • #143
  • Dec 10, 2007 4:40pm Dec 10, 2007 4:40pm
Hi...


Well at the time of the previous post the thread starter was active on FF...he just did not see fit to contribute to the thread he started and with all the postings since his last post....well......does that tell you something...

And for the person who said get past the ....Holy Grail thing...

Sorry I cant.......it was the "attention" getting name and mentioned in the first post ......so it served its purpose well... to get "attention".
  • #144
  • Dec 10, 2007 4:43pm Dec 10, 2007 4:43pm
Quoting JFX81
I understand your point and respond by saying that every year of trading I complete upwards of 1000 trades and have always been profitable year for year. The monitor account is my own personal account that I trade in the same trading style I offer for managed accounts. To achieve such results means you have to be willing to take risks, and those are fully disclosed. Remember, I pointed out that it is easy for traders to get euphoric about periods of extreme success, which *could* be accentuated by having a long record of consistent losses. That is the main point I was trying to make.
He dissed the profession by painting every trading mentor as a fraud. That is simply irresponsible and uninformed. It may very well be his personal experience, and for that I am truly sorry if he has been misled or ripped off.
I am always up for a positive and spirited debate and don't take one bit of offense to your comments in this thread. I think the thing that irks me is that, yes, we are all here to learn; but blanket statements about Holy Grails can be misleading.

My view is that everyone can potentially find their OWN Holy Grail trading method. As discussed previously, some people can trade certain methods very well while others fail miserably. I just don't want people who are new to this to think that there is a magic formula one way or the other
Thank you for a classy reply!

I will concede that 1000+ trades is certainly more than 240. However; unless I missed that mentioned on your site, none of us knew if your performance was the result of 50 or 5000 trades.......thus, my point.

I will also agree with you that there is likely more than one "Grail" or pathway to the "Shangri-La" of trading. It seems that not every one of the "Market Wizards" trade exactly the same way, yet they are all at the top of this game. Likewise with golf.....lots of professionals making millions....they all have different swings.....yet they are all among the best in the world. What is the common denominator????? I have yet to find the club pro or book that has been able to come up with the one size fits all answer!

My grail???......I am getting warmer with the help of many of the great folks on this and other sites.

Cheers!
  • #145
  • Dec 10, 2007 4:44pm Dec 10, 2007 4:44pm
Quoting th_ngue21
What is the website?
Check his profile for the link.
  • #146
  • Dec 10, 2007 5:16pm Dec 10, 2007 5:16pm
Quoting Brunite
Likewise with golf.....lots of professionals making millions....they all have different swings.....yet they are all among the best in the world. What is the common denominator????? I have yet to find the club pro or book that has been able to come up with the one size fits all answer!

Cheers!
Well, I know at least one thing, if all of the handicap reducing clubs and gadgets that are advertised on late night TV worked then everyone would have a negative handicap!!!

If you are ever in the New Orleans area we should get together for a round...on me.
  • #147
  • Dec 10, 2007 5:25pm Dec 10, 2007 5:25pm
Quoting Angler
Hi...


Well at the time of the previous post the thread starter was active on FF...he just did not see fit to contribute to the thread he started and with all the postings since his last post....well......does that tell you something...

And for the person who said get past the ....Holy Grail thing...

Sorry I cant.......it was the "attention" getting name and mentioned in the first post ......so it served its purpose well... to get "attention".
I gotta tell you Angler, you actually have a point. I'm a bit perplexed that John hasn't joined in on the fun you keep creating every time you post.

I'd be the guy that suggested that people get past the words Holy Grail and I'd be happy to pay for a psychiatric session with your nearest mental health center in regards to helping you overcome the words Holy Grail. Remember this, if John hadn't got your attention we wouldn't be such great friends

Just want to help
Robonacci com
  • #148
  • Dec 10, 2007 5:26pm Dec 10, 2007 5:26pm
Quoting JFX81
Well, I know at least one thing, if all of the handicap reducing clubs and gadgets that are advertised on late night TV worked then everyone would have a negative handicap!!!

If you are ever in the New Orleans area we should get together for a round...on me.

I'm on my way, I have a foot of snow outside my door
Robonacci com
  • #149
  • Dec 10, 2007 7:02pm Dec 10, 2007 7:02pm
Quoting SKUNNY
I'm on my way, I have a foot of snow outside my door
It was 80 degrees down here today in the Big Easy!
  • #150
  • Dec 10, 2007 7:44pm Dec 10, 2007 7:44pm
Hi...


Well hi there my best buddy....Skunny


Most people dont use the term I refered to, that you want to ignore...why..because they understand there system or trading method is no such thing.....real simple..

I would have thought you would be to busy moderating that other forum to spend to much time here....
  • #151
  • Dec 10, 2007 8:47pm Dec 10, 2007 8:47pm
Quoting branco
So even if I haven't profited from that mind set at least so far I have avoided some losses.
I would say you can safely account a non-loss as a net profit. How many times I have canceled an open position (especially during scalping sessions in a range-bound trend) I cannot even guess.

Any avoided loss based on new evaluation of information is ultimately a profit for you.
  • #152
  • Dec 10, 2007 9:09pm Dec 10, 2007 9:09pm
King Arthur is recruiting his Knights of the Round Table throughout England. He is frustrated at every turn by anarcho-syndicalist peasants, a Black Knight that refuses to give up despite losing both his arms and legs, and guards that are more concerned with the flight patterns of swallows than their lord and master. Finally he meets up with Sir Bedevere the Wise, Sir Lancelot the Brave, Sir Galahad the Pure (also called "the Chaste"), Sir Robin the Not-Quite-So-Brave-As-Sir-Lancelot, and the aptly named "Sir Not-Appearing-In-This-Film", and declares them the Knights of the Round Table. They are given a quest by God to find the Holy Grail.
After they split up, Sir Robin encounters a Three-Headed Giant, Galahad runs across the perils of Castle Anthrax, Sir Lancelot massacres a wedding at Swamp Castle, and Arthur and Bedevere encounter the dreaded Knights who say Ni. They each overcome their individual perils and reunite to face a bleak and terrible winter. Surviving the winter by eating Sir Robin's minstrels, they venture further to a pyromaniac enchanter named "Tim", who takes them to a cave guarded by a killer rabbit.

After killing the vicious Rabbit of Caerbannog with the Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch, the knights face The Legendary Black Beast of Aaargh, and cross the Bridge of Death that is guarded by "the old man from Scene 24". Arthur and Bedevere survive to arrive at Castle Aaargh, and face the French Taunter once more. The film ends abruptly when a group of police from the 1970s interrupt the climactic battle scene to arrest Bedevere and King Arthur for the murder of Frank, the "famous historian".


I don't know, there is a full Monty of Pythons but don't see any mention of price action anywhere in this Holy Grail ?

  • #153
  • Dec 10, 2007 10:23pm Dec 10, 2007 10:23pm
What about a line chart, identify S/R levels, and take action acording the direction of the line chart?

That's the way I started in forex, and started making money, then I discovered that almost all the traders used to use candlesticks, indicators, etc. and I thought "damn! I must be completely wrong", started using them, and started losing money .
Ado Whether you believe you can do a thing or not, you are right.
  • #154
  • Dec 11, 2007 4:02am Dec 11, 2007 4:02am
Quoting SKUNNY
Now thats the spirit ! Join in with some contribution. I love it!

Your stop needs to be in a place where if price gets there you are prepared to take the trade in the opposite direction. If your stop isn't in such a spot I suggest not entering the trade.
This is one of the best bits of advice here! i think far to many of us take crap trades in the first place when we should be looking only to take the A1 trades and stop positioning is a great indicator of this
  • #155
  • Edited 6:40am Dec 11, 2007 4:54am | Edited 6:40am
Quoting SKUNNY
Sorry if I wasn't clear. I'm not saying keep your stop at the same point from which you had placed it when you entered the trade. Once the trade is in motion you need to protect your profit by finding a new place for your stop. (on smaller time frames from which you entered) This would get you in and out of a larger trend but also put you in a position for a reversal.

I'm talking about entering a trade. So I'm thinking you don't disagree now or do you
I wasn't really clear, either, I shouldn't have said "major" trend.

I'll trade down to 1H or even 30m trendlines if it looks good.

However, I will still trade it in one direction, only with the strength of price movement. I usually get burnt trading retracements, and sometimes its only because I have no confidence in the trade, and thus, do it wrong - put stop too close, or get scared out when price makes strong moves against me. And sometimes it's good that I do get out early. So, to avoid all that guesswork, I just go with the present strength of movement, and keep an eye out for a change in the wind, that's my "system", if you will, and it works well for me.

Also, if it's time to move a stop, it's time for me to just take the profit. Tomorrow's a new trading day.
  • #156
  • Dec 11, 2007 4:55am Dec 11, 2007 4:55am
Quoting Ado
What about a line chart, identify S/R levels, and take action acording the direction of the line chart?

That's the way I started in forex, and started making money, then I discovered that almost all the traders used to use candlesticks, indicators, etc. and I thought "damn! I must be completely wrong", started using them, and started losing money .
S/R on line charts looks so good probably because "big boys" like to use lines. There is also a charting school drawing trendlines from closes of candles not from hi/lo. Lines on H4 filter out many false moves, but candles (hi/lo) help to decide where to put SL.
  • #157
  • Dec 11, 2007 7:00am Dec 11, 2007 7:00am
While I'm not a years old experienced trader, but, up to now, my guess is:

 

  1. All the timeframes are a "micro-universe" , there is no major trend, not at least as most of traders mention, taking x trade just because looks good in the bigger picture, but... we are not actually trading the bigger picture, because we are staring at indicators and movement of the smaller timeframe.
  2. There is a market rithm, or speed, something like Phillip Nel says in his threads, not only him, many systems look very similar in waiting for the move to reach certain "speed", enter, and go out at some point. The rithm of one time frame might not have nothing to do with the other time frame.
  3. Line chart tells where the price actually is going, all the indicators come behind, so, when the price went up in the past but then is going down, macd/slope/xxx/etc. is pointing up "hey, this is a nice retracement to buy!..."

Attached Image
Ado Whether you believe you can do a thing or not, you are right.
  • #158
  • Dec 11, 2007 7:14am Dec 11, 2007 7:14am
Quoting blueruby
I wasn't really clear, either, I shouldn't have said "major" trend.

I'll trade down to 1H or even 30m trendlines if it looks good.

However, I will still trade it in one direction, only with the strength of price movement. I usually get burnt trading retracements, and sometimes its only because I have no confidence in the trade, and thus, do it wrong - put stop too close, or get scared out when price makes strong moves against me. And sometimes it's good that I do get out early. So, to avoid all that guesswork, I just go with the present strength of movement, and keep an eye out for a change in the wind, that's my "system", if you will, and it works well for me.

Also, if it's time to move a stop, it's time for me to just take the profit. Tomorrow's a new trading day.
Hey Blue, it sounds like you have a good system. You seem to know what to do after trends form and you react to changes in the trend. Now you need to know why it all happens...lol. A goal might be, to be part of the trend when it's forming, you're halfway there. You can do it. By the time most figure out there is a trend, it is ready to pull back or reverse. It's more fun to take part in the construction of the trend


PS to the kind PM'rs, I haven't forgotten about you and I'll be out all day (dragging my dad to the hospital). I'll get back to you soon. Thanks.

Someone should start a new thread -trading philosophy- or something like that, so we can continue away from John's thread. I'm sure he is anxious to post his own ideas here. Please don't use the words Holy Grail in the title of the new thread. LOL
Robonacci com
  • #159
  • Edited 7:49am Dec 11, 2007 7:31am | Edited 7:49am
SKUNNY did you received my email? thx Max

email address Removed by Moderator
  • #160
  • Edited 7:48am Dec 11, 2007 7:36am | Edited 7:48am
Quoting maximus2005
SKUNNY did you received my email? thx Max
Yes I did Max, Thanks! I'll shoot off a reply when I get back later today 7-8 hrs. Thanks.
Robonacci com
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