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  • #15,261
  • Apr 23, 2023 7:28am Apr 23, 2023 7:28am
Quoting forexbali
{quote} By the way. Don't feel attacked by anybody. I understand why you like the instant funding and I understand your point. And I'm sure that it can work for many traders and I know the reason why. But Phase 1 can be even worse that an instant funding. Phase 1 has a trailing drawdown locked to initial balance at some point. Something that doesn't happen even in instant funding, where when you scale you get again an absolute drawdown.
I don't feel attacked but some times wonder why some people here want so eagerly stop people using from Instant funding. I have been trading over 15 years also as a MM and I believe I know something about trading and especially about the mental side of trading. I like instant funding accounts if the terms are good, including the broker being used. Commissions slippage and spreads can make a huge difference as we all know.
  • #15,262
  • Apr 23, 2023 7:33am Apr 23, 2023 7:33am
Quoting Nsak3y
{quote}-No. You cannot use account balance. You must use draw-down allowance. The account balance is mostly fiction. It could be $300 million and it would not matter much. The draw-down allowance is what matters the most.
I think this is the most important regarding instant funding and apparently difficult to figure out.

They give 1000 USD max loss for a price of, let's say, 999 USD

It doesn't matter if they say the account is 10K, 100K, 1M, 100M. As soon as we lose 1000 the account is terminated.

They could even give a 1 billion USD account for 999 USD with 1000 USD DD. This is as good as a 10K account with the same 1000 USD for the same 999 USD price.
  • #15,263
  • Apr 23, 2023 7:50am Apr 23, 2023 7:50am
Quoting Capablanca
I think this is the most important regarding instant funding and apparently difficult to figure out.
-Yes, and the "risk-free" scaling that so many clamor on about is usually pure fiction. Not only are your profits serving as the new draw-down in most cases, but in order to scale up fully through each level, you would need to be able to flip an account anywhere from 20 to 40 times in an row without going bust. If you can do that, then just trade your own account and become the most successful trader on the planet. (By the way, flipping $10 twenty times in a row is over $10M)

Quoting TraderTero
I don't feel attacked but some times wonder why some people here want so eagerly stop people using from Instant funding.
-I do not think that anyone does that. Believe it or not, most people here want to help others. The problem occurs when people spew off nonsense as truth, which can be misleading to readers. Even when people seem to rant about what they believe to be the best by stating their own opinion(s), there is always the understanding that people will (and should) do whatever they feel is best for them.
  • #15,264
  • Apr 23, 2023 8:22am Apr 23, 2023 8:22am
Quoting Nsak3y
{quote}-Read again. {quote}-You cannot know how your comments may impact others. As such, it is better to be responsible and considerate. Just my suggestion. {quote}-Better to not assume. {quote}-Speculation may not serve this community very well. I would say, if someone was doing that, then that is their own fault for not reading the rules. {quote}-As a trader, if you fail to follow the rules that have been clearly defined by the firm, then only you are to blame.
How long did it take you to make that post? For goodness sake, you must have some vested interest in TWE. No one else would go to that much trouble. WOW!

Instead of sounding off everytime, why don't YOU start trading with them and show us your payment proofs instead of telling everyone else to? I think you have to be ignored in the meantime.

Lastly, I am not telling everyone that TWE is a scam but in my view, the jury is still out. We need to see VERIFIED proofs of payouts from many of these new outfits before we can be sure that they are 100% OK. Outfits like Bigpip funding, Evertrade, Myffx all included.
  • #15,265
  • Apr 23, 2023 8:27am Apr 23, 2023 8:27am
Quoting Nsak3y
{quote}-I have read your comments. My comments still stand. Feel free to read again what I wrote. Up to you. Changing your position does not serve anyone well, either. Anyway, this is simple. It does not have to be complex. If you trade your own account, and double it, and then withdraw half of the money so that you are trading risk-free, then NO ONE here is dumb enough to say that trading with a prop is better (assuming that the account size is the same). Because obviously, you are keeping 100% of the profits while trading risk-free and not having...
My entire point. Math is not an opinion, it cannot be argued or disputed. No agenda here, just trying to save folks time and money because I have been there, done that. It is true, after 18-24 months, a personal acccount would even outpace a challenge account.
The point is, as you exlained so perfectly, do I want to flip $1,000 and
a. in a personal account, have $2,000, Pull $1,000 to be "risk-free" and keep 100% of profits and have no rules or restrictions
b. in an instant funded account, have a $2,000 max loss (assuming the fee was dollar for dollar vs. max loss), give up 30-50% of profits and only scale 100% every time I generate 200%
c. in a 2 step challenge, fee is refunded (+ extra in most firms), so automatically risk free have 24K available loss(19.6 when factoring an 80% split).

In summary, option a gives you $2K to trade, option b gives you 2K to trade and option c gives you $24K (plus the benefit of automatically risk free, where a you have to pull half your money out).

There is not a single scenario, where option b doesn't come in behind a and c. Despite people's OPINION, math simply does not lie.
  • #15,266
  • Apr 23, 2023 8:38am Apr 23, 2023 8:38am
Quoting Nsak3y
{quote}-Nobody is attacking anyone. But this discussion has been had so many times, that it is like beating a dead, rotting corpse at this point. There are no agendas here, just facts. People can choose to do what they want, of course, but we should not allow for discussion that may be misleading or incorrect, especially since many traders read this thread for information.
Yes, it is a dead horse. I will no longer comment on it. It makes my head hurt and I am simply trying to save folks time and not give money away that is not neccessary. I have a math and statistics background, been using props for 3 years and have tried several firms and models. I am not pushing an agenda nor sending out affiliate links. It does not benefit me one way or another what firm(s) anyone uses. Howveer, with my background ane experience, OBVIOUSLY there is a reason I only recommend the firms which give you 20-24 times your investment to trade with.
  • #15,267
  • Apr 23, 2023 8:46am Apr 23, 2023 8:46am
Quoting pipmaster77
{quote} Yes, it is a dead horse. I will no longer comment on it. It makes my head hurt and I am simply trying to save folks time and not give money away that is not neccessary. I have a math and statistics background, been using props for 3 years and have tried several firms and models. I am not pushing an agenda nor sending out affiliate links. It does not benefit me one way or another what firm(s) anyone uses. Howveer, with my background ane experience, OBVIOUSLY there is a reason I only recommend the firms which give you 20-24 times your investment...
I think you should compare a 100k non scaling funded account with Stocknet or the CTI account you have in your form. Also add the profits used for clearing the challenges to the instant funded accounts. You could also compare the 100k funded account with having traded your own account which goes to 2.5mil. I really would like to see how a 100k funded account makes more than 2.5M.
  • #15,268
  • Apr 23, 2023 8:50am Apr 23, 2023 8:50am
Quoting pipmaster77
{quote} My entire point. Math is not an opinion, it cannot be argued or disputed. No agenda here, just trying to save folks time and money because I have been there, done that. It is true, after 18-24 months, a personal acccount would even outpace a challenge account. The point is, as you exlained so perfectly, do I want to flip $1,000 and a. in a personal account, have $2,000, Pull $1,000 to be "risk-free" and keep 100% of profits and have no rules or restrictions b. in an instant funded account, have a $2,000 max loss (assuming the fee was dollar...
A 2 step challenge where you get 20-24X your initial investment and fee refunded with NO TIME LIMITS is of course, by far, the best option for a trader. You get all of the value of the 2 step without the time pressure. If MFFX makes this successful, it is a game changer for sure.
  • #15,269
  • Apr 23, 2023 9:05am Apr 23, 2023 9:05am
Quoting Bizziebee
How long did it take you to make that post? For goodness sake, you must have some vested interest in TWE. No one else would go to that much trouble. WOW! Instead of sounding off everytime, why don't YOU start trading with them and show us your payment proofs instead of telling everyone else to?
-Sigh. Firstly, I am not telling anyone to trade with them.

Second, the only reason that I replied, as I have stated more than once now, is because a serious claim was made without evidence. I would react the same way, regardless of the firm. You also seem to keep poking me for responses, so what do you expect?

And lastly, you seem to want to try to paint a picture here that I am somehow involved with TWE and that I am pushing some kind of agenda. Wouldn't your time be better-spent doing something else? Give it a rest already.
  • #15,270
  • Apr 23, 2023 9:05am Apr 23, 2023 9:05am
Quoting pipmaster77
Yes, it is a dead horse. I will no longer comment on it. It makes my head hurt and I am simply trying to save folks time and not give money away that is not neccessary. ... I am not pushing an agenda nor sending out affiliate links.
-Isn't it odd? You try to help here, but because you say something that is disagreeable, you must be pushing some kind of agenda and should be ignored. It reminds me of the discord groups.

Some of the claims here are laughable...
  • #15,271
  • Edited 9:22am Apr 23, 2023 9:07am | Edited 9:22am
Quoting TraderTero
{quote} I think you should compare a 100k non scaling funded account with Stocknet or the CTI account you have in your form. Also add the profits used for clearing the challenges to the instant funded accounts. You could also compare the 100k funded account with having traded your own account which goes to 2.5mil. I really would like to see how a 100k funded account makes more than 2.5M.
Already stated above, it is fact after 18-24 months, a personal account will outpace even a challenge account with 25-30% scaling every time you flip it in 3-4 months.
I always factor the 100% and 50% requirements on challenges into the numbers. Rounding for ease .....$1,000 flipped gives you 2K another 50% for phase 2 gives you $3,000. The 2 step challenge gives you 20-24K MAX LOSS and fee refunded. So 20-24 times your investment and now risk free, house money. Factor in the targets you needed, it is still almost 7X (20K vs. the 3000 you'd have in personal account) There is simply no comparison.
My only point is if you have $1,000 in disposable income, you have 3 options and one gives you 7-8 times more value than the other 2.
Now let's say, they scale you 25-30% every 4 months if you flip the account (10% with 10% DD)
In 3 months, personal account is 6K, prop is 250K with 25K max loss
in 6 months, 12K, prop only scales original balance so 300K with 30K max loss
In 9 months, 24K, prop is 350K with 35K max loss
At 12 months, personal account passes prop account with 48K vs. 40K max loss with prop. Now, factor in, the 80% you have been paid from the prop and that's why I say 18-24 months is a pretty good approximation of when they would truly be equal.
With instant funding, you are equal from day 1 and since most require 200% to scale (10% with 5% DD) but only scale you 100%, you are literally losing money as you scale....
Same 1,000 with instant you can purchase a 20K with 5% (1K loss), to scale you need to make 2K (10% of the 20K). Your personal account would now be at 3K, the instat funding double you to 40K but with 5%DD it is only a 2K MAX LOSS, do it again you are at 6 and4, then 12 and 8 then 24 and 16, the more you scale the worse it gets........
  • #15,272
  • Apr 23, 2023 9:18am Apr 23, 2023 9:18am
Quoting pipmaster77
At 12 months, personal account and prop account match at 40K and 40K max loss. Now, factor in, the 80% you have been paid from the prop and that's why I say 18-24 months is a pretty good approximation of when they would truly be equal.
-Honestly, even this may be too generous. Because the prop trader could:

1. keep some profits in the account to scale up even faster if he/she really wanted to.
2. reinvest profits into more challenges, thus literally multiplying their account balance exponentially (meanwhile, the trader on the personal account must keep funds in the account in order to try to compete).

Even if the math could eventually make sense, the value and opportunity is incomparable.
  • #15,273
  • Apr 23, 2023 9:24am Apr 23, 2023 9:24am
Quoting Nsak3y
{quote}-Honestly, even this may be too generous. Because the prop trader could: 1. keep some profits in the account to scale up even faster if he/she really wanted to. 2. reinvest profits into more challenges, thus literally multiplying their account balance exponentially (meanwhile, the trader on the personal account must keep funds in the account in order to try to compete). Even if you could make the math work, the value and opportunity is incomparable.
Absolutely. I built my entire AUM using refunded fees. My own "scaling"
  • #15,274
  • Apr 23, 2023 9:36am Apr 23, 2023 9:36am
Quoting pipmaster77
{quote}With instant funding, you are equal from day 1 and since most require 200% to scale (10% with 5% DD) but only scale you 100%, you are literally losing money as you scale....
What are your thoughts on CTI or The5ers where the second level is 4x or 5x the first level, not 2x? I don't see that they are such a bad deal compared to 2 step evals, but maybe I'm still missing something... (I'm not debating, just honestly asking your opinion on those two in particular.)

I also like BuoyTrade, where the cost of entry is insanely cheap, but you can scale every 5% (1:1) if you forgo profit splits for a few levels to accelerate quicker with less investment. Again, you are trading time for money obviously, but with unlimited time, there's no pressure either. The biggest problem with Buoy, CTI, and The5ers is the low leverage, but that doesn't bother me with my trading style. MFFX does indeed have the best of both worlds if they can survive long term with those terms. I'm still undecided whether to try E8Funding or MFFX for my next account.
  • #15,275
  • Apr 23, 2023 12:37pm Apr 23, 2023 12:37pm
Quoting pipmaster77
{quote} A 2 step challenge where you get 20-24X your initial investment and fee refunded with NO TIME LIMITS is of course, by far, the best option for a trader. You get all of the value of the 2 step without the time pressure. If MFFX makes this successful, it is a game changer for sure.
I just remember that MFFX made a Phase 1 with "absolute drawdown" that could give a chance to Phase 1 category to have a chance.
But they changed marketing... and they downgrade it like other prop. So Phase 1 where all apply a trailing to "initial balance" not interesting at all.

for who need to decide:
MFFX no limits
E8 60 days time

I would choose MFFX, but at least the 60 DAYS of E8 is an extra time more. compared to prop without no limit on phase 2 challenges.
in holiday till end of November
  • #15,276
  • Apr 23, 2023 1:23pm Apr 23, 2023 1:23pm
For those of you trading XAU or SP500 (or US indices in general) here I share some basic stats from my trading experience with BFP, MFF and MFFX.
I copy all trades via Duplikium from my master account with IC Markets. Below is the results from my last week of trading, ca 60 XAU trades and 110 SP trades.
In the following table you can see how much better or worse my trading ROI was with all these firms:

Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: Clipboard01.png Size: 7 KB


All 3 firms produced better ROI on XAU than IC Markets. And all of them performed much worse on SP500. No surprise I'm losing so much on trading indices when it is so much more expensive than what I'm used to with IC Markets
Money is made by sitting, not trading
  • #15,277
  • Apr 23, 2023 1:33pm Apr 23, 2023 1:33pm
Quoting forexbali
{quote} I just remember that MFFX made a Phase 1 with "absolute drawdown" that could give a chance to Phase 1 category to have a chance. But they changed marketing... and they downgrade it like other prop. So Phase 1 where all apply a trailing to "initial balance" not interesting at all. for who need to decide: MFFX no limits E8 60 days time I would choose MFFX, but at least the 60 DAYS of E8 is an extra time more. compared to prop without no limit on phase 2 challenges.
I'm unfortunately already at 300k with MFFX so E8 will probably next for me. I'm also looking into Funderpro and Agrefx. Thetradingcapital is also in my list.
  • #15,278
  • Apr 23, 2023 1:46pm Apr 23, 2023 1:46pm
Quoting TraderTero
{quote} I'm unfortunately already at 300k with MFFX so E8 will probably next for me. I'm also looking into Funderpro and Agrefx. Thetradingcapital is also in my list.
You can still have additional 250K with them if you use their current promo
Money is made by sitting, not trading
  • #15,279
  • Apr 23, 2023 2:42pm Apr 23, 2023 2:42pm
Quoting forexbali
{quote} I just remember that MFFX made a Phase 1 with "absolute drawdown" that could give a chance to Phase 1 category to have a chance. But they changed marketing... and they downgrade it like other prop. So Phase 1 where all apply a trailing to "initial balance" not interesting at all. for who need to decide: MFFX no limits E8 60 days time I would choose MFFX, but at least the 60 DAYS of E8 is an extra time more. compared to prop without no limit on phase 2 challenges.
This is from the CEO of MFFX
@everyone very important announcements coming this week!
1. Our max capital is increasing
2. New broker announcement
3. Instant trading availability during withdraw processing
Stay tuned
  • #15,280
  • Apr 24, 2023 1:50am Apr 24, 2023 1:50am
there are my news trading rules
To effectively use the Forex economic calendar, traders must take note of the following:

4.1 Identify the important data
Traders need to determine which economic indicators have the most significant impact on the Forex market they are interested in, such as GDP, inflation, unemployment rate, etc. By marking these key figures on the Forex economic calendar, traders can easily track them.

4.2 Monitor the Forex economic calendar closely
After identifying the key figures, traders should closely monitor the Forex economic calendar to know when the figures will be released. This helps them prepare mentally and trade accordingly.

4.3 Analyze the data carefully
After the economic data is released, traders should thoroughly analyze the data to evaluate the level of market impact. Additionally, traders should have a reliable trading plan in place. If the data is higher or lower than expected, the price is likely to increase or decrease, respectively.

4.4 Act quickly
After analyzing market trends, traders need to act promptly and participate in the market to seize the opportunities available. This is a critical step in making a profit from news trading on the Forex economic calendar.

4.5 Monitor the market closely
In reality, traders should closely monitor market movements to determine whether the market is reacting as expected. If the reaction is stronger than expected, it's recommended that traders exit early to preserve their capital. If not, traders should continue trading to maximize their profits.

4.6 Set Stop Loss
When participating in the market, traders should set stop-loss orders to limit risk. These orders will automatically exit the trade if the market moves against the initial expectations, thereby saving capital when trading news.

4.7 Take Profit
When the market moves according to the initial forecast, traders need to set a take-profit order to automatically close the trade and realize the desired profit level. This allows traders to better control their emotions and never miss out on opportunities for significant profits.

4.8 Evaluate the results
After completing a trade, traders should evaluate the results to gain experience for the next trade. This includes evaluating economic data analysis, market monitoring, and risk management to improve their news trading skills.
Furthermore, traders can also refer to news trading strategies and their impact on trading to better understand how news is used in the forex market.
For forex traders, the Forex economic calendar is an essential tool that plays an important role in trading. This calendar is highly beneficial for identifying trading opportunities and limiting losses during market fluctuations. Therefore, traders should have a proficient understanding of the Forex economic calendar and use it effectively as soon as they enter the Forex market. Good luck to you!
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