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Anyone trading with a Prop firm 31 replies

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  • #15,221
  • Apr 22, 2023 11:57am Apr 22, 2023 11:57am
Quoting Nsak3y
{quote}-In most cases that I have seen, in order to scale, one must flip the account (sometimes twice). Sometimes, you must even keep your profits in the account in order to qualify. In fact, in most cases, you are really just trading with your own money. And since the profit that you generate is usually going to serve as your 'scale-up', the scaling is just a fantasy. Instant models simply cannot compete with fully-refundable, traditional models; the draw-down allowance and profit split are incomparable.
You always trade with your profits... they don't allow to trade.

Do you know a reputable prop firm with an Instant Funding that allow you to withdraw 100% of the profits after the scale up without breach?
in holiday till end of November
  • #15,222
  • Apr 22, 2023 12:03pm Apr 22, 2023 12:03pm
Quoting AaronPriest
My biggest problem is that as a US citizen, prop firms offer better brokers than I can use as a personal account. I have to use Forex.com, Oanda, or Trading.com (FINALLY a USA broker that supports MT5, as of a few months ago), or I have to use a sketchy broker overseas that only accepts crypto for payment and withdrawal, such as Coinexx. If it's a US broker, we have to deal with FIFO and that crap. If it's a foreign account and there's more than $10K aggregate we have to deal with FinCEN reporting and that crap. Also, there are tax implications...
I wish you to make so much money for the next step: leave U.S. for better countries like in Europe there are many with 0% capital gain tax, or Netherlands for personal account you could arrive to 1.75% max income tax. While for PropTraders UAE-Dubai is the best option, but there are plenty more for 0% income tax or lower income tax let's say at max 10%. Also there are many prop offerings "crypto" direct withdrawals but avoid the tax, even if they don't report, is not a good solution.

U.S. taxation is very complicate. Years ago I studied a bit all the options to try to move there a couple of years for other reasons, because you know... U.S. is U.S.
The lowest taxation I could find living in some state is around 20-22% in some cases you needed to have joint declaration with your spouse to arrive to such level or lower. I'm speaking for at least 200-300K profit per year.

Hope some state in the U.S. will offer one day a clear flat tax for short term capital gains suitable for traders. NY state taxes can eat over 50-55% of your profits, this is insane. I hope that in U.S. with that taxes paid you get some benefit as the pension or other, because in Europe if we pay 30% tax on gains we get nothing, and a day you won't get any pension on what you paid, even if you paid 2-3.000.000$ in taxes, like some friends of mine did and just in a couple of years.
in holiday till end of November
  • #15,223
  • Apr 22, 2023 12:15pm Apr 22, 2023 12:15pm
Quoting forexbali
{quote} You always trade with your profits... they don't allow to trade. Do you know a reputable prop firm with an Instant Funding that allow you to withdraw 100% of the profits after the scale up without breach?
Stocknet for sure allows to withdraw 100% of your share and there are others which allow also. I just scaled up my account with Stocknet and my current share pretty much cover the cost I paid for the funding. So I'm now at 0 risk and continue to scale up and withdraw my profits on the way up.
  • #15,224
  • Apr 22, 2023 12:25pm Apr 22, 2023 12:25pm
Quoting AaronPriest
{quote} City Traders Imperium just removed the time limit, max stop loss % per position, minimum active trading days, and trailing drawdown for their instant accounts. This now makes them one of the best instant funding programs in my opinion.
With 49$:

You will get just a 1000$ account, while in MFF you can get a 2000$ account

In MFF no profit target, in CTI you have to make a 9% or you can't withdraw your profits (MFF 10% profit target)

I still see "stop loss required" in MFF not

DD is the same 5%

After you get a 9% profit you will have in CTI 5090$ and in MFF 4200$

leverage 1:10 vs 1:50 of MFF

Drawdown: I read that it is "absolute drawdown" (at start all are absolute but after they lock to IB), I have to read the full rules, if this would be even after the "scale up", yes, then it is better than others and I will add in few hours in my sheet.

Also please check the rule of 2 closed trades with no stop loss. Just 2 warnings, and then account is gone.
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in holiday till end of November
  • #15,225
  • Apr 22, 2023 12:26pm Apr 22, 2023 12:26pm
Quoting TraderTero
{quote} Stocknet for sure allows to withdraw 100% of your share and there are others which allow also. I just scaled up my account with Stocknet and my current share pretty much cover the cost I paid for the funding. So I'm now at 0 risk and continue to scale up and withdraw my profits on the way up.
I will check them, but never heard here somebody using them. Can you send a link so I don't go in some scam pishing sites? thanks.
in holiday till end of November
  • #15,226
  • Edited 12:50pm Apr 22, 2023 12:30pm | Edited 12:50pm
Quoting Capablanca
{quote} The way the guys asks seems to me that is someone who already checked this and the CEO doesn't seem to deny. That's how I read it. Let's see. Would be great if you could share when you get an answer.
For some reason the CEO resists to provide a simple and clear answer. He never said how the rule should be interpreted. He even responded to my direct question yet without saying yes or no. (Though I agree it is 99% Yes = all existing red news)

In the past i discussed DCA with him as he is against it as well. It was the same story. He never explained what exactly he considers to be DCA though it is one of their prohibited trading strategies. You could always guess or assume but you never got a simple answer. Its all just smoke and mirrors. I guess trading a funded account with them might become a nightmare pretty quick
Money is made by sitting, not trading
  • #15,227
  • Apr 22, 2023 12:32pm Apr 22, 2023 12:32pm
Quoting forexbali
{quote} I will check them, but never heard here somebody using them. Can you send a link so I don't go in some scam pishing sites? thanks.
stocknetinstitute.com
  • #15,228
  • Apr 22, 2023 12:40pm Apr 22, 2023 12:40pm
Quoting forexbali
{quote} With 49$: You will get just a 1000$ account, while in MFF you can get a 2000$ account In MFF no profit target, in CTI you have to make a 9% or you can't withdraw your profits (MFF 10% profit target) I still see "stop loss required" in MFF not DD is the same 5% After you get a 9% profit you will have in CTI 5090$ and in MFF 4200$ leverage 1:10 vs 1:50 of MFF Drawdown: I read that it is "absolute drawdown" (at start all are absolute but after they lock to IB), I have to read the full rules, if this would be even after the "scale up", yes,...
You not allowed to use EA's on the MFF Accelerated. On their site the price is $99.
  • #15,229
  • Edited 1:00pm Apr 22, 2023 12:45pm | Edited 1:00pm
Quoting TraderTero
{quote} stocknetinstitute.com
I remember this company and there was some big complain, in fact I remember that I took the 2 names of the owners and I have a research and I found them in Linkeding with some photos in Dubai.

Don't remember who was the member here got a big issue.

However about CTI City Trader Imperium: Making some calculation I get that you could get some bigger balance than MFF using them, leverage is 1:10 against 1:50 while all the instant funding I have in spreadsheet are Absolute drawdowns, so theoretically if I did not any mistake, you can withdraw all your profits before or at the scale up and you get a new absolute drawdown without need to keep your profits on them.

So for CTI this rule of the 2 warnings on two closed trades without stop loss kill the program for me, because sometime a trader want to be free to open quickly, even just a 0.01 trade, to make some money, that would not be possible opening a trade management tool or placing a stop loss in few seconds.

Also the commissions of CTI are 4.5$ per lot compared to 1.5$ of MFF, this would mean that on big accounts you will finish to pay lots of thousands dollars on commissions compared to MFF.

Pro: ok CTI offer up to 90% and higher payout.

---

If you can show me a message that they eliminated the stop loss rule, I could add them, but with this stop loss rule it's not so interesting.
the same is the5ers that continue to ask a 10% profit target... the same of CTI at 9%. I think that MFF is the unique instant program too look at, of the big names, and the RAPID is even the unique program that refund the fees (ok for small accounts, max 37.5K at 100% payout if you merge 3 100K demo accounts)
in holiday till end of November
  • #15,230
  • Apr 22, 2023 12:52pm Apr 22, 2023 12:52pm
Quoting TraderTero
{quote} The instant funding models usually scale much better than the traditional challenge models and that can make a big difference. However, on CTI I think their one step challenge which they call Instant funding is the best as with $99 you get a $2000 account which will scale to 10K once you hit the target and from there on it will double all the way up to 2M. I just don't like their low 1:10 leverage.
Once again, the scaling is an even bigger scam then paying more in a fee than allowable loss. If you need to scale 10% with 5% DD, you are flipping the account 2x (200%), yet they only scale you 100%. Run all of your numbers on max loss, not on equity.
  • #15,231
  • Apr 22, 2023 12:54pm Apr 22, 2023 12:54pm
Quoting forexbali
{quote} I remember this company and there was some big complain, in fact I remember that I took the 2 names of the owners and I have a research and I found them in Linkeding with some photos in Dubai. Don't remember who was the member here got a big issue. However about CTI City Trader Imperium: Making some calculation I get that you could get some bigger balance than MFF using them, leverage is 1:10 against 1:50 while all the instant funding I have in spreadsheet are Absolute drawdowns, so theoretically if I did not any mistake, you can withdraw...
Never heard any bad word about Stocknet so are you sure that it was them. I have been with them since 12/2022 without any issues. Their Trustpilot has 5 stars.
  • #15,232
  • Apr 22, 2023 12:54pm Apr 22, 2023 12:54pm
Quoting TraderTero
{quote} The instant funding models usually scale much better than the traditional challenge models and that can make a big difference. However, on CTI I think their one step challenge which they call Instant funding is the best as with $99 you get a $2000 account which will scale to 10K once you hit the target and from there on it will double all the way up to 2M. I just don't like their low 1:10 leverage.
$2000 with a 5% allowable loss, so it's a $100 account for $99...........I just do not understand what some folks cannot see staring them in the face.
  • #15,233
  • Apr 22, 2023 12:58pm Apr 22, 2023 12:58pm
Quoting pipmaster77
{quote} $2000 with a 5% allowable loss, so it's a $100 account for $99...........I just do not understand what some folks cannot see staring them in the face.
unique instant account that offer a refund is the MFF RAPID and a huge 12% max DD

also the 5ers now offering a 6% max drawdown, always ready to eliminate them for the absurd 10% profit target that in MFF, but for now I leave because they eliminated the stop loss rule and they can arrive to pay up to 100%.

also to remember that payout on many instant is 50% only.

I have to keep the IF and Phase 1 in the list, because however as you see many people ask. I have to try to filter and leave what I can save on these bad programs.

Again: I hope to receive from someone a review about the RAPID IF at MFF. But if few reviews come I guess is because everybody is on Phase 2.
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in holiday till end of November
  • #15,234
  • Apr 22, 2023 1:18pm Apr 22, 2023 1:18pm
Quoting pipmaster77
{quote} $2000 with a 5% allowable loss, so it's a $100 account for $99...........I just do not understand what some folks cannot see staring them in the face.
Maybe you get it one day
  • #15,235
  • Apr 22, 2023 1:24pm Apr 22, 2023 1:24pm
Quoting TraderTero
{quote} Maybe you get it one day
in holiday till end of November
  • #15,236
  • Apr 22, 2023 2:21pm Apr 22, 2023 2:21pm
Quoting forexbali
{quote}
For any serious money manager or trader a 1-phase or instant scaling funding is better than the 30-day 2-step challenges as they are nothing but gambling. There is also one basic rule, the same risk settings should apply to all funds your trade regardless of the source. Therefore saying that place $100 in your own trading account and double it all the time is nonsense.
  • #15,237
  • Apr 22, 2023 3:11pm Apr 22, 2023 3:11pm
Quoting TraderTero
{quote} Maybe you get it one day
Please explain it, I am dying to understand.
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  • #15,238
  • Apr 22, 2023 3:16pm Apr 22, 2023 3:16pm
Quoting TraderTero
{quote} For any serious money manager or trader a 1-phase or instant scaling funding is better than the 30-day 2-step challenges as they are nothing but gambling. There is also one basic rule, the same risk settings should apply to all funds your trade regardless of the source. Therefore saying that place $100 in your own trading account and double it all the time is nonsense.
It is not nonsense, it is the same EXACT thing. If you have a 2,000 account, with a 5% max loss and you normally risk 2% per trade, is that 2% based on the 2,000 or the 100? If it is the 2,000, I hope you do not lose 2 trades in a row because account is blown. If it is based on the 100 (as it should be) THEN IT IS INDEED THE EXACT SAME THING AS TRADING YOUR OWN $100 ACCOUNT. You are trying to make 10% (200) without losing 5% (100). How is it different than trying to make $200 with $100 in your own account. Other than, in your own account, you are not going to give away 50%.
  • #15,239
  • Apr 22, 2023 3:38pm Apr 22, 2023 3:38pm
Quoting forexbali
{quote} unique instant account that offer a refund is the MFF RAPID and a huge 12% max DD also the 5ers now offering a 6% max drawdown, always ready to eliminate them for the absurd 10% profit target that in MFF, but for now I leave because they eliminated the stop loss rule and they can arrive to pay up to 100%. also to remember that payout on many instant is 50% only. I have to keep the IF and Phase 1 in the list, because however as you see many people ask. I have to try to filter and leave what I can save on these bad programs. Again: I hope...
Hi I have had a Rapid demo and a Rapid live. It’s not a 100k account it’s a demo that pays 12% and a 10k live that pays 85/90% after you qualify.

So if my maths are right the 100k is really equivalent to a 12k 100:1 margin account with a drawdown of $600 daily. It’s not really worth it and I don’t think warrants 1st place.

The 3 day rule needs marking up as a major negative in my opinion.

Also none of the staff knows how it works and I’ve had major problems with them in past getting withdrawals also I gave up trying to explain to them numerous times I should be scaled and this went nowhere.

Hopefully they’ve improved it as I was one of the originals and went through all the shite. I’ve since dropped the demo and kept the live as I can’t be arsed being told when I have to trade. The whole experience pushed me away from MFF, they were atrocious at the time.

The Rapid has been superseded now by other offerings with no timescale at other companies. You will make more quicker with these and therefore makes it obsolete. It’s not direct funding either.

Cheers

F
  • #15,240
  • Apr 22, 2023 4:24pm Apr 22, 2023 4:24pm
Quoting pipmaster77
{quote} It is not nonsense, it is the same EXACT thing. If you have a 2,000 account, with a 5% max loss and you normally risk 2% per trade, is that 2% based on the 2,000 or the 100? If it is the 2,000, I hope you do not lose 2 trades in a row because account is blown. If it is based on the 100 (as it should be) THEN IT IS INDEED THE EXACT SAME THING AS TRADING YOUR OWN $100 ACCOUNT. You are trying to make 10% (200) without losing 5% (100). How is it different than trying to make $200 with $100 in your own account. Other than, in your own account,...
Your risk per pip on your personal account starts to increase exponentially after a while and that would under normal circumstances make you lower your risk. It is also very difficult to make money with using a 10 pip SL.

In normal life your risk per pip would start to actually decrease quite early on because trading own funds is mentally much more demanding than trading investor funds. This provided that you are not a multi millionaire who likes to gamble. You need to keep in mind that you would have only invested some $700 of your own money which you would have received back very soon whereas all the profits in your own account you would consider being your own money. So after stage one your risk is 0 but on your own account it just keeps on growing. FYI, I don't consider instant funding to be better than 1-step but I think it can work well if the terms are right.

Btw, if you think you can flip $700 in a heart beat to 2.5M why are you using prop firms?
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