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  • #9,741
  • Aug 6, 2022 4:59am Aug 6, 2022 4:59am
The fundedtrader is doing some creepy shit lately. The discord thing is just another. They also banned a guy for not accepting an interview. I think its time to run away from that one and run fast.

Re: A-book and b-book.

It is more profitable for any broker/prop/fund manager to b-book the flow. For a prop firm, it makes your capital risk far lower as well. As much as we all like to think we are good traders ,statistically we are more likely to lose a prop firm account than maintain it. We can believe we are the exception but we aren't.

Does this mean a prop firm is manipulating? nope.. From all the feeds I have traded on in prop (6 now) none of them are abusing their traders, and based on what I have discovered so far, none of them would know where to start to do that without destroying their server with the exception of higher spreads. I dont think its something to worry about.

The best thing any prop trader can do is avoid news as its the core of most of the blaming of prop firms. If you avoid news (no open trades no opening trades no closing trades during announcement) then the conditions are generally better than STP.

If anything you have a better chance of being profitable with a prop firm than with a true STP broker (not a broker that STP's to their own dealing desk) as the conditions are better than market (even during news and roll over).
  • #9,742
  • Aug 6, 2022 5:22am Aug 6, 2022 5:22am
Quoting Takisd
The fundedtrader is doing some creepy shit lately. The discord thing is just another. They also banned a guy for not accepting an interview. I think its time to run away from that one and run fast. Re: A-book and b-book. It is more profitable for any broker/prop/fund manager to b-book the flow. For a prop firm, it makes your capital risk far lower as well. As much as we all like to think we are good traders ,statistically we are more likely to lose a prop firm account than maintain it. We can believe we are the exception but we aren't. Does this...

So according what some people described, a B-book is just as a prop firm, it trades against traders.
So why a prop firm does not abuse traders but most people think B-book abuse traders?
I don't see the logic.
If a B-book can do something illegal to take traders' money, then a prop firm can also.
If a trader can find whether a prop firm gives him bad quotes, or wrong slippery, then a trader can also find whether a B-book does.
So anyone who thinks a B-book is a bucket shop, then he would logically think a prop firm is a bucket shop.
A casino has conflicting interest with gamblers, yet it does not mean it should do something illegal to get gamblers' money.
  • #9,743
  • Aug 6, 2022 5:56am Aug 6, 2022 5:56am
Quoting Takisd
The fundedtrader is doing some creepy shit lately. The discord thing is just another. They also banned a guy for not accepting an interview. I think its time to run away from that one and run fast.
Also got this email twice

Quote
Hello,
Congratulations on your payout! This is a huge accomplishment and we are proud and lucky to have such amazing talent here at The Funded Trader.
Your hard work has paid off and it should not go unnoticed, this is why we are inviting you to our exclusive Funded Trader Rewards program.
You will have the opportunity to leverage your success as a trader into some additional income by creating some content on behalf of the firm. Please reference the attached graphic for more information.
Any rewards submitted should go directly through this link.
We need your help to continue building trust in our brand, and as an honorary Knight in the Funded Trader Kingdom, with payouts certified, it would be an honor to interview you!!
For interviews, please use this link to schedule your spot!
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  • #9,744
  • Aug 6, 2022 6:09am Aug 6, 2022 6:09am
Quoting Capablanca
{quote} Also got this email twice {quote} {image}
That is really shady for a prop firm to pay for comments. Do not do that. They even say:"All must be quality approved before recieving compensation." So they even control the marketing effect of each paid comment. That is so unhonesty. They only get overwhelming comments to blend other potential customers. I hate such things. I am bit astonished that TFT animate their customers to sell their soul for a penny so they leave a paid review. And then they even control the 'quality' of those reviews.
  • #9,745
  • Aug 6, 2022 6:14am Aug 6, 2022 6:14am
Quoting Capablanca
Also got this email twice
-I want to ask if it is a joke, but I suspect that it is not. $125 for an interview? Get out of here with that. A free funded account seems more reasonable, but even then, I would decline, personally.
  • #9,746
  • Aug 6, 2022 6:26am Aug 6, 2022 6:26am
Quoting wmwmw
{quote} So according what some people described, a B-book is just as a prop firm, it trades against traders. So why a prop firm does not abuse traders but most people think B-book abuse traders? I don't see the logic. If a B-book can do something illegal to take traders' money, then a prop firm can also. If a trader can find whether a prop firm gives him bad quotes, or wrong slippery, then a trader can also find whether a B-book does. So anyone who thinks a B-book is a bucket shop, then he would logically think a prop firm is a bucket shop. A casino...

The simple answer to your question is that prop firms, with the exception of maybe 2 or 3, dont have the knowledge or experience to seamlessly manipulate the feed without detection. Even brokers don't do it these days unless its blatant and some shitbox company.

The bottom line is, retail traders are so bad, you don't need to manipulate the feed. Back in the days of instant execution, you did need to do it, but just by providing market execution you eliminate the people who abuse price feed inefficiencies and the rest of the traders are just statistically bound to lose.

If someone is consistent enough, you would STP them to lower your potential downside but most likely that STP'd order is being b-booked by the next layer of liquidity. Afterall, the final liquidity for execution is a b-book anyway whether its a bank or broker or prop firm, someone is warehousing the risk/taking the opposite trade.
  • #9,747
  • Aug 6, 2022 6:27am Aug 6, 2022 6:27am
Quoting Capablanca
{quote} Also got this email twice {quote} {image}

The paying for reviews thing, you should probably report that to trust pilot.
  • #9,748
  • Aug 6, 2022 6:28am Aug 6, 2022 6:28am
Quoting Nsak3y
{quote}-I want to ask if it is a joke, but I suspect that it is not. $125 for an interview? Get out of here with that. A free funded account seems more reasonable, but even then, I would decline, personally.

I declined twice a while ago and then they stopped. But i haven't been doing much with my account lately with them. I might YOLO it later.
  • #9,749
  • Aug 6, 2022 6:31am Aug 6, 2022 6:31am
Quoting Takisd
{quote}You b-book.
What do you say about Global Prime ? Are they not A-Book as they promise ? And how do I know if my orders are getting B-booked or A-booked. And last, how can I assure that I am being A-booked ? Is the only way to use only brokers where I can directly enter orders into Currenex, Hotspot, FXAll or other liquidity providers ? Or do I need to enter 30 lots trades or even higher to get A-booked on A-book/B-Book mixed broker like ICM? Do I really get much worse fills at IC Markets when being A-booked than on a liqudity provider like Currenex or FXall itself ? I mean, you must have some own experience here when you are doing a yard per month as volume or ?
  • #9,750
  • Aug 6, 2022 6:38am Aug 6, 2022 6:38am
Quoting Takisd
{quote} The paying for reviews thing, you should probably report that to trust pilot.
Hold your horse
Quoting pipmaster77
{quote} They sign up, pay the fee, maybe even pass a challenge, then they don't get paid. Then, they are all over the internet, screaming what a scam PROP FIRMS are. Not the one they used, but all. Why? because idiots tend to group "like" things all into one group. Then the regulators step in because idiots are filing complaints against these scam companies. Now, regulators, who are also guilty of the idiocy of lumping all "like" things into one group, shut down or heavily regulate the good firms. Now, you and I lose income.
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  • #9,751
  • Aug 6, 2022 7:00am Aug 6, 2022 7:00am
Quoting TrAndy1
{quote} What do you say about Global Prime ? Are they not A-Book as they promise ? And how do I know if my orders are getting B-booked or A-booked. And last, how can I assure that I am being A-booked ? Is the only way to use only brokers where I can directly enter orders into Currenex, Hotspot, FXAll or other liquidity providers ? Or do I need to enter 30 lots trades or even higher to get A-booked on A-book/B-Book mixed broker like ICM? Do I really get much worse fills at IC Markets when being A-booked than on a liqudity provider like Currenex or...

I don't care for global prime. Their whole marketing around "Who executed my trade" is bogus. They have a dealer under gleneagle securities that acts as a dealing desk and that same house has multiple brokers sending them flow to warehouse.

You shouldnt care about being a-booked, you should only care about being paid.

ICMarkets is so big they have a bunch of options such as internal order matching. They also use a network of brokers to cross execute with them for lower costs and they are spread packing with 1k orders to lower the spread. There are a bunch of prop firms that are now in that network FYI. Including one of the larger two and 2 of the next larger 3. One of the larger two, and one of the next 3 are on LMAX's network but does not provide a feed from that network but a better than market feed instead.

Really b-booking isn't bad, if a broker has a healthy amount of mixed risk strategy and enough order flow to support it all then thats the best bet. So here is how a healthy broker would function.

1) B-book most flow
2) Measure your exposure and hedge all flow beyond a certain exposure using various strategies (Pair, individual currency, long/short whatever your preferred method is)
3) Pick out any toxic traders and stp / a-book them (these traders will die fast once you a-book them as the liquidity will adjust to the flow as you can't really do anything with it, its not profitable in any way. (this is most of the "IM A SCALPER EA" type flow that is generally taking advantage of the smoothed nature of metatrader and is automated).

Most 'good' retail traders will fall into #2, you will b-book some of their flow and when you have too much of that kind of flow you start sending it out to someone else. If a broker/prop/fund is doing 1 and then 2, they should survive forever regardless of whether someone makes a billion dollars with them. If they only do number 1, they need to have a clean feed with proper depth so that users are not getting better than market conditions, which means silly slippage conversations. If a prop firm only a-booked, they would die in a month as the traders lose and i don't think anyone would argue with that.

The important thing to understand is that a-book isn't just "OK I WILL SEND THIS ORDER TO MARKET" you can pull the order to pieces as well and send both sides as individual trades too. For example, if someone is buying EUR/USD you can turn it into two transactions, one EUR and one USD and it can be used against other currencies for matching (this is what you would do in a broker network like ICMarkets does). The trade is still a-booked but it is not a single EURUSD trade.

Moral of the story: B book isn't bad so long as the company manages its risk appropriately and pays when due
  • #9,752
  • Aug 6, 2022 7:03am Aug 6, 2022 7:03am
One last post on this thread -
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How many more basill in the making, hence be very careful.
Many more will be scammed, many more will want to be scammed.
  • #9,753
  • Aug 6, 2022 7:06am Aug 6, 2022 7:06am
Quoting mixedbags
One last post on this thread - {image} How many more basill in the making, hence be very careful. Many more will be scammed, many more will want to be scammed.

Be more direct in what you are trying to say.
  • #9,754
  • Aug 6, 2022 7:29am Aug 6, 2022 7:29am
Quoting Takisd
{quote} 3) Pick out any toxic traders and stp / a-book them (these traders will die fast once you a-book them as the liquidity will adjust to the flow as you can't really do anything with it, its not profitable in any way. (this is most of the "IM A SCALPER EA" type flow that is generally taking advantage of the smoothed nature of metatrader and is automated). Most 'good' retail traders will fall into #2, you will b-book some of their flow and when you have too much of that kind of flow you start sending it out...
Thanks for the interesting insight. By the way what is an example of a toxic trader?
  • #9,755
  • Aug 6, 2022 7:33am Aug 6, 2022 7:33am
Quoting ohyeah
{quote} Thanks for the interesting insight. By the way what is an example of a toxic trader?

straddlers, people who use pendings at market opens on cfd's. People who are pipping a smoothed feed. People using large sizes for small lots. Spreads generally are wider in interbank if the size is larger. Expecting a 0.1 or less eurusd spread on 100 lots is a bit silly. Once you stp that flow the scalper will get a real fill and likely lose the edge.
  • #9,756
  • Aug 6, 2022 7:50am Aug 6, 2022 7:50am
Quoting Nsak3y
{quote}-I want to ask if it is a joke, but I suspect that it is not. $125 for an interview? Get out of here with that. A free funded account seems more reasonable, but even then, I would decline, personally.
It's 100% true received after my 2 payouts from different accounts. I had already declined previously and I'm going to decline now.
Let's see how many times they insist.
  • #9,757
  • Aug 6, 2022 8:00am Aug 6, 2022 8:00am
Quoting Takisd
{quote} I don't care for global prime. Their whole marketing around "Who executed my trade" is bogus. They have a dealer under gleneagle securities that acts as a dealing desk and that same house has multiple brokers sending them flow to warehouse. You shouldnt care about being a-booked, you should only care about being paid. ICMarkets is so big they have a bunch of options such as internal order matching. They also use a network of brokers to cross execute with them for lower costs and they are spread packing with 1k orders to lower the spread....
Takisd, as you seem to be well aware of the area, a quick question: what about Interactive Brokers (for forex) ? And how do they compare with IC Markets ? And where do you put tickmill compared with those two ? (I understood that you're ok with tickmill, right ?)
  • #9,758
  • Aug 6, 2022 8:05am Aug 6, 2022 8:05am
Quoting Takisd
People using large sizes for small lots.
This means for example, entering 100 order of 1 lot instead of 1 order of 100 lots ?
  • #9,759
  • Aug 6, 2022 8:15am Aug 6, 2022 8:15am
Quoting Takisd
{quote} I don't care for global prime.
What do you think are the advantages and disadvantages of trading on a broker like Sucden/Stone X, CFH, Advancedmarkets.com or Baxter-FX in comparison to ICM ?
  • #9,760
  • Aug 6, 2022 8:16am Aug 6, 2022 8:16am
Quoting Capablanca
{quote} This means for example, entering 100 order of 1 lot instead of 1 order of 100 lots ?
Typically brokers allow a maximum of 200 trades by default. The brokers allow this so this isn't toxic. What they don't allow would be considered toxic, which is (more than) 200 trades.
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