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Flying Dutchman

  • #2,181
  • Edited 8:52am Jul 9, 2022 8:39am | Edited 8:52am
Quoting Ihlas
That's the secret, they form the price action At the same time it's simple, but precious. It's expensive, but when sold to someone it's laughable
I don't know how else to tell this secret. That I'm hiding.

Omg, trade the nonsense that MS Pro purposely leave on the chart.

People, have you ever read I post a single line of such nonsense????

Do you expect MS Pro to trade because of pinbar, delta flip, poc, pivot, fibs..... Whatever you fill in yourself. Does it even make sense?

I read this forum for a long time now.

I'm 100% certain, people will still go back to their favourite indicators.
Know what you trade
  • #2,182
  • Jul 9, 2022 8:58am Jul 9, 2022 8:58am
Quoting TimeTells
{quote} Ryu, this chart will help clear your mind away from lines, TO the sell areas of importance, the lines are just the stages where you might take your profits (one at a time or all of them in one big trade) So there MUST be volume ryu, there must be market orders for price to move, correct ? . {image}
What you mean "must be"? Why guesswork? Get the data and check it.

You think if YOU drew line then volume is in there automatically? You are wizard? You add volume in the past using drawing tools?

This all tells me only one thing: you are total noob and you are not trading with real money. Real trader can't ignore volume data.

I'm not interested in that discussions. I'm spending my time for bullshit. Nothing to learn from you guys. Keep using drawing tools. At least some fun looking at your stupid fake entries.
Observer effect
  • #2,183
  • Jul 9, 2022 9:06am Jul 9, 2022 9:06am
Hi @ryuryu,
If you want artwork with drawing tools. Just PM me. We can also add hexagon, polygon, or n-gon.
I always read your posts as if you're angry Are you?
  • #2,184
  • Jul 9, 2022 9:22am Jul 9, 2022 9:22am
One last matter.

Do you see G$/GY stop at that high point week open line? With clear targets formed early last week on the h4 chart.

That's what MS Pro traders are making important decision if they push the value higher or not. Watch their footstep closely next week
Know what you trade
  • #2,185
  • Jul 9, 2022 10:14am Jul 9, 2022 10:14am
Quoting BWilliam
{quote} I wrote here 4 months ago what is the most important line. No typo error. Hey, I still remember what I wrote. {quote} I'm not sure if anyone read it. Sounds ridiculous but G$/GY close is already known that's why market zoomed up after hitting day low - it had to! Same with bitcoin, last week close is already known that's why market traded one way towards the target close. I wrote clearly close line is the most important line yet people don't read, ask for secret sauce. Professional traders trading with Morgan Stanley already know the close,...
I somehow forgot about the details of that post (987). There was a conflict in me with regards to the Close and Open as I strongly believe the late Tom Williams (Wyckoff VSA) can't be wrong on the importance of the Close (rather than the Open) considering his vast knowledge on the market mechanics. Hence my post #1932 (https://www.forexfactory.com/thread/...6#post14048406).
  • #2,186
  • Edited 5:11pm Jul 9, 2022 5:00pm | Edited 5:11pm
Quoting ryuryu
{quote} What you mean "must be"? Why guesswork? Get the data and check it. You think if YOU drew line then volume is in there automatically? You are wizard? You add volume in the past using drawing tools? This all tells me only one thing: you are total noob and you are not trading with real money. Real trader can't ignore volume data. I'm not interested in that discussions. I'm spending my time for bullshit. Nothing to learn from you guys. Keep using drawing tools. At least some fun looking at your stupid fake entries.
Real traders can't ignore volume data?

No one trades forex and makes money!. That's what you're saying right?

No volume in Forex right? So there are no real traders. That's what you are saying.

Quite a statement. Bet the brokers who pay the bills here won't be happy.

In other words, you didn't spend long enough studying how the market functions but jumped in bed with someone who also couldn't work out how the market functions.

The End
  • #2,187
  • Edited 7:50pm Jul 9, 2022 7:07pm | Edited 7:50pm
Quoting ryuryu
{quote}
What you mean "must be"? Why guesswork?
Nothing to learn from you guys. Keep using drawing tools. At least some fun looking at your stupid fake entries.

Hi ryu,

Well this is a very interesing development.

What do I mean by there MUST be volume for price to move.
That was my QUESTION to you ryu ?


Quoting TimeTells
{quote}
So there MUST be volume ryu, there must be market orders for price to move, correct ? . {image}


Because that's why price moves. Right.
BUT, is this my statement posted on forex factory ?

NO ryu !
This is YOUR statement to your own readers on your journal.

Quoting ryuryu
{quote}
Market works if there is a liquidity to trade.
Only market orders move the market.

So, can we please do this once again,
so that we both have the same starting point in our discussion,

then I can show you on Andy's thread right here that
volume is NOT necessary, for me, when I trade,
which was just the original comment I made to you that
appears to have sent you into a meltdown of nonsense posts culminating in you declaring that ...

there was NO liquidityduring a full eight hour period on an ETH chart when price was tumblinglike water running downhill.


So which is the reality ryu,
your link above where YOU told your readers that
"Only market orders move the market"

or

when the market moved on ETH,
and I don't mean a trickle of a move,
I mean a FULL BLOWN EIGHT HOUR SELLOFF
YOU then tell me that it was dumb to sell during the "selloff" ???
as there was NO volume

Quoting ryuryu
{quote}
P.S. And in general: it was dumbest idea to trade ETH last 8 hours. There was NO volume

How can both your statements be correct, 1) that only market orders move the market 2) there was no volume, so dumb trade
when the market WAS moving (and quite substantially)

see the chart below again, inside the Black Box I have segregated
you told me you KEEP all the data, so from your dabase, was there VOLUME during those eight hours.


(then we can move on to how I support my statement that volume is just not necessary for my trading)

cheers
Pete

.
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: ryu ethusdt sell at down arrows.jpg Size: 217 KB
  • #2,188
  • Edited 9:49pm Jul 9, 2022 8:57pm | Edited 9:49pm
Quoting TimeTells
{quote} Hi ryu, Well this is a very interesing development. What do I mean by there MUST be volume for price to move. That was my QUESTION to you ryu ? {quote} Because that's why price moves. Right. BUT, is this my statement posted on forex factory ? NO ryu ! This is YOUR statement to your own readers on your journal. {quote} So, can we please do this once again, so that we both have the same starting point in our discussion, then I can show you on Andy's thread right here that volume is NOT necessary, for me, when I trade, which was just the original...
Hi Pete, delta traders scalp the tail of the normal distribution in an auction market, they think in terms of standard deviation where they define it as some distance from their defined median price and when delta flip they expect price to return to mean all done in a few seconds. Price at 3sd is not 50:50 the next tick.

Delta traders wait for volatility that generate spikes with large enough sd. They monitor volume over several cryptos with the dashboard for trading signals. Thats why volume is important to them. Fade the extreme is the common theme in their strategy. Explains why these traders hang out together.

Delta scalpers did the research work to define the structure to trade. That's why they make this claim that their strategy is based on math. Whereas line traders draw magical lines with no math praying and hoping that it work - noob strategy. You can't be serious you risk real money trading this shit. It's gotta be demo or breakfast money or you're just dumb.

I try to explain what ryuryu learnt from Rick, and communicate with you their thoughts in his posts. Cheers
Know what you trade
  • #2,189
  • Jul 9, 2022 9:15pm Jul 9, 2022 9:15pm
Hi Jason,

Yes correct and we both understand clearly their method of using & trading delta with vol, no problems or difficulty to understand at all, well done to them.

This was never an issue for you & me and we always congratulate them
and any trader actually that works out their way to firstly survive these markets and then turn a profit after that.


However, when ONE of delta-vol trader suggests that NO ONE ELSE can be successful in the market without using his style of method (or even JUST vol)
is very silly talk which might confuse a NEW trader so I must (sorry, lol) say my own opinion post to address that nonsense part.


Trade well pal. I have been not reading so much lately unless someone "quotes" me then I reply
but I did see one of your wonderful posts earlier i will try and find and recommend to all new traders.
(plus I have my annual holidays coming up in a few weeks as I was telling Andy where I'll STOP reading lol for a month and maybe just only the music thread )
  • #2,190
  • Jul 9, 2022 9:22pm Jul 9, 2022 9:22pm
Quoting BWilliam
{quote}
This has been explained since George's first thread. Repeated so many times. Your long algo or real thread. Yet people still ask what's the secret? The secret is technical analysis, indicators, price action, pivot, fibs, Sr, sd, orderflow, channels, ...... work if it's in line with preset targets.

This post Jason,
includes this wonderful comprehension of how indis work sometimes and dont work at other times and when traders then abandon and try NEW indicator,
when it was never the indicator that was wrong (it only INDICATES LOL),

but WHEN each indi is used, and in which direction ... MUST be WITH the market TO ... its target (not ours).

(so we are all passengers on a Market Train & we must have our ticket for travel lol - the destination has many stops - all up to US when we get off train )
  • #2,191
  • Edited 9:52pm Jul 9, 2022 9:23pm | Edited 9:52pm
Quoting TimeTells
Hi Jason, Yes correct and we both understand clearly their method of using & trading delta with vol, no problems or difficulty to understand at all, well done to them. This was never an issue for you & me and we always congratulate them and any trader actually that works out their way to firstly survive these markets and then turn a profit after that. However, when ONE of delta-vol trader suggests that NO ONE ELSE can be successful in the market without using his style of method (or even JUST vol) is very silly talk which might confuse a NEW trader...
Yes, we know what they do, don't have a problem with their strategy. And thank them for posting it on FF.

The issue is to go on so many threads to claim(or at least it comes off this way to the reader) that without this volume variable, traders can't trade successfully. This becomes a problem because this is misleading. If you observe carefully they have convinced a bunch of members who do believe the same. And thats why followers of such strategies tend to be hostile to other traders. And this hostility is shown by their rude and angry posts.

Note that we are talking about normal, sensible, logical adults. Cheers

Edit - it's ok to highlight the importance of this volume variable and caution the lack of, that make traders think. But don't go overboard.

I use to go around insisting objectively quantified as a must that offended other members too. And guilty of many similar stuff. I was a pain but I'm not rude. Just throw caution to the wind.
Know what you trade
  • #2,192
  • Jul 9, 2022 10:11pm Jul 9, 2022 10:11pm
Take a look at bitcoin which traded to 21920 then turn south. This means this is a significant price level.

The best indicator is the red phone.
Just kidding.

Now this sets us thinking that this market is not random. Some MS Pro traders figured we're not going to value it above this level - got nothing to do with supply and demand. They simply decided that for whatever the reason.

Your indicators, candles, volume delta and all other variables will show this condition. That reflect their decision. Nothing wrong with that.

Here's the problem, how different do your "indicator" show at this important decision level as compared to other levels on the chart?

And what "indicator" do you use to tell this 21920 price level?

If you're the "indicator" trader, think about what I point out to you. Cheers
Know what you trade
  • #2,193
  • Jul 9, 2022 10:48pm Jul 9, 2022 10:48pm
Quoting BWilliam
{quote} Yes, we know what they do, don't have a problem with their strategy. And thank them for posting it on FF. The issue is to go on so many threads to claim(or at least it comes off this way to the reader) that without this volume variable, traders can't trade successfully. This becomes a problem because this is misleading. If you observe carefully they have convinced a bunch of members who do believe the same. And thats why followers of such strategies tend to be hostile to other traders. And this hostility is shown by their rude and angry...
Question for you J.

Regarding the Crypto/Volume method.

Could there be an advantage obtained by funnelling in multiple entries via multiple traders operating on the same indicator/ signal.

In doing so momentarily increasing volume. For someone in the know with a slightly modified/delayed indicator could an advantage potentially be gained?

Just interested if you have any thoughts either way.

Cheers
  • #2,194
  • Jul 9, 2022 11:24pm Jul 9, 2022 11:24pm
Quoting moodybot
Question for you J. Regarding the Crypto/Volume method. Could there be an advantage obtained by funnelling in multiple entries via multiple traders operating on the same indicator/ signal. In doing so momentarily increasing volume. For someone in the know with a slightly modified/delayed indicator could an advantage potentially be gained? Just interested if you have any thoughts either way. Cheers
Here's a video that explain this pump and dump craze with crypto.
Inserted Video
Know what you trade
  • #2,195
  • Jul 9, 2022 11:31pm Jul 9, 2022 11:31pm
Quoting moodybot
{quote} Real traders can't ignore volume data? No one trades forex and makes money!. That's what you're saying right? No volume in Forex right? So there are no real traders. That's what you are saying. Quite a statement. Bet the brokers who pay the bills here won't be happy. In other words, you didn't spend long enough studying how the market functions but jumped in bed with someone who also couldn't work out how the market functions. The End
Hi moodybot, Thanks for this thread I have enjoyed reading some it in the short time.

Just touching on the real traders comment by the other poster I thought what is a real trader? So I guess it is someone making a living from the markets? For me that's good enough but it doesn't preclude a part-time trader that is profitable either. A demo theory exploring tester might not be a real trader however.

The guy in the video below who chooses to use retail platforms (cfd) to trade for a living because the cost is cheaper than futures, is a real trader. At 4:30 mark in the attached video he states how he does it. No volume. But he trades BIG bucks up to $3000 per point (pounds actually but my keyboard has not a symbol for that). Not endorsing his style but thought it might serve some purpose in the what is real debate.

Cheers...

Inserted Video
  • #2,196
  • Jul 9, 2022 11:41pm Jul 9, 2022 11:41pm
Quoting BWilliam
{quote} Here's a video that explain this pump and dump craze with crypto. https://youtu.be/ehDvr5vVGPg

Thanks J

Thats as clear cut as it gets.

Anyone getting involved with a Crypto discord group should first watch that video, then ask some searching questions!

Andy
  • #2,197
  • Jul 9, 2022 11:42pm Jul 9, 2022 11:42pm
Quoting FocusWinReal
{quote} Hi moodybot, Thanks for this thread I have enjoyed reading some it in the short time. Just touching on the real traders comment by the other poster I thought what is a real trader? So I guess it is someone making a living from the markets? For me that's good enough but it doesn't preclude a part-time trader that is profitable either. A demo theory exploring tester might not be a real trader however. The guy in the video below who chooses to use retail platforms (cfd) to trade for a living because the cost is cheaper than futures, is...
Thanks for the link, cheers.
  • #2,198
  • Edited 12:20am Jul 10, 2022 12:09am | Edited 12:20am
Quoting FocusWinReal
{quote} Hi moodybot, Thanks for this thread I have enjoyed reading some it in the short time. Just touching on the real traders comment by the other poster I thought what is a real trader? So I guess it is someone making a living from the markets? For me that's good enough but it doesn't preclude a part-time trader that is profitable either. A demo theory exploring tester might not be a real trader however. The guy in the video below who chooses to use retail platforms (cfd) to trade for a living because the cost is cheaper than futures, is...
Funny I had just mentioned earlier today to Pete or Andy watching Tom trade indices with $3000+++ gbp/pt.. Tom uses just a candlestick chart and will use some "Lines" more for Measured Moves etc..As well hes heavy on DTs DBs Micro DTs DBS etc...Also some "Classical Patterns" GASP !

Multiple Hundred(s) lot trades executed immediately... No "Liquidity" problems and even at that he will open a trade and instantly its against him... Not like some think how 6 lots can move a market in their favor haha,,,,

Toms become a mentor for me awhile back and if one wants to learn the "psychological" aspect of trading (Which is everything) I encourage you to goto his website and read up...Its all free..... tradertom.com I must say I have added IMMENSLEY to my traders toolbox thru Tom both technically and psychologically in the last 2 years...

He is the real deal and the most transparent as anyone I have ever seen in decades. Cant say enough good about Tom.

If you really think volume is needed to trade FX pairs Metals Indices Oil etc...you absolutely dont...Perhaps the crypto TRading Kings Rick/ Ryuryu can explain to Tom that hes doing it all wrong and trading a fake market LMFAO.....

Sorry for speaking the harsh truth if you dont like it ignore me please.

Cheers
Blue


Tom Scalping Candle patterns.....need I say Volume isnt even a thought when you know how to trade,,,,,

Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: Scalping without volume.jpg Size: 115 KB
Master your Mind,,,Master the Market
  • #2,199
  • Jul 10, 2022 12:20am Jul 10, 2022 12:20am
Quoting bluesteele
{quote} Funny I had just mentioned earlier today to Pete or Andy watching Tom trade indices with $3000+++ gbp/pt.. Tom uses just a candlestick chart and will use some "Lines" more for Measured Moves etc..As well hes heavy on DTs DBs Micro DTs DBS etc...Also some "Classical Patterns" GASP ! Multiple Hundred(s) lot trades executed immediately... No "Liquidity" problems and even at that he will open a trade and instantly its against him... Not like some think how 6 lots can move a market in their favor haha,,,, Toms become a mentor for me awhile back...
Yes bluesteele Tom is one of my mentors and has helped me too. I have read his best loser wins pdf but not his recently published book.
Cheers...
  • #2,200
  • Edited 6:21am Jul 10, 2022 2:25am | Edited 6:21am
Trader Tom is honest and learn great on his YT channel, especially about trader mentality.
always leave myself room to be wrong. It infuses a certain amount of humility into things
Chaos is not dangerous until it begins to look orderly
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