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  • #5,961
  • Feb 24, 2020 6:51am Feb 24, 2020 6:51am
Quoting xy100
{quote} Why are those two charts so vastly different. What time frames are they exactly? I see 25min 67min, it cant be that? When i compare for example EURUSD 15min chart and USDDKK 15min chart they look 99% the same (mirror opposite of course)
The reason is that they are not time based charts they are Renko charts of 2 pips for EURUSD and 5 pips for USDDKK. When using Renko charts it's best to find the best number of pips to use. With a very low ATR 2 pips is appropriate while 5 to 10 pips is appropriate for USDDKK.
  • #5,962
  • Edited 12:03pm Feb 24, 2020 8:52am | Edited 12:03pm
Quoting Hutch
{quote} The reason is that they are not time based charts they are Renko charts of 2 pips for EURUSD and 5 pips for USDDKK. When using Renko charts it's best to find the best number of pips to use. With a very low ATR 2 pips is appropriate while 5 to 10 pips is appropriate for USDDKK.
ATR for both instruments can only be the same if they are basically moving lockstep to each other.
It doesn't matter what price scaling for each pair is, the only thing that matters is how spread relates to price for each instruments.
You could artificially create second EURUSD charts where you multiply EURUSD price *10 to get bid price 1.123450 and spread 10
instead of 1.1234 and 1 spread and ATR would practically stayed the same.
If USDDKK moves ~6.5 time pip more it doesnt mean it has bigger trend because his spread is also ~6+ times bigger
and pip value is ~6 times smaller
To accurately compare EUR and DKK renko charts you must have roughly 6.5 times smaller EUR renco brick
and then it would looked exactly the same and both instruments would produced same amount of signals.
  • #5,963
  • Feb 24, 2020 4:52pm Feb 24, 2020 4:52pm
Quoting xy100
{quote} ATR for both instruments can only be the same if they are basically moving lockstep to each other. It doesn't matter what price scaling for each pair is, the only thing that matters is how spread relates to price for each instruments. You could artificially create second EURUSD charts where you multiply EURUSD price *10 to get bid price 1.123450 and spread 10 instead of 1.1234 and 1 spread and ATR would practically stayed the same. If USDDKK moves ~6.5 time pip more it doesnt mean it has bigger trend because his spread is also ~6+ times...
Actually the price ratio between EURUSD and USDDKK is 1:6.9 at this time. So I produced two Renko charts EURUSD 2 pips and USDDKK 13.8 pips. So you are right the two charts are nearly the same but one is inverted because of the minus 93% correlation and they produce the same signals. The ATR, however, remains different and could only be the equal when a DKK will have the same value as a USD. If I had a real job I would love to work with you because you could state your idea and I could put it into action
Attached Image(s) (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: EURUSDM67.png Size: 41 KB
Click to Enlarge Name: USDDKKM3.png Size: 42 KB
  • #5,964
  • Feb 25, 2020 12:29am Feb 25, 2020 12:29am
Quoting Hutch
{quote} The ATR, however, remains different and could only be the equal when a DKK will have the same value as a USD. {image} {image}
Like i said the bigger ATR in DKK due to bigger dollar value is offset by bigger spread and smaller pip value.
If you enter an exit opposite trades at the exact same time with the same leverage you will make more or less money dependent
on the fact if the spread in DKK is not more than 6 times bigger than EURUSD.
Imo not worth the hassle .
  • #5,965
  • Feb 25, 2020 12:35am Feb 25, 2020 12:35am
Quoting xy100
{quote} Like i said the bigger ATR in DKK due to bigger dollar value is offset by bigger spread and smaller pip value. If you enter an exit opposite trades at the exact same time with the same leverage you will make more or less money dependent on the fact if the spread in DKK is not more than 6 times bigger than EURUSD. Imo not worth the hassle .
When the London session opens the spread of USDDKK will be less than 5 pips so it's worth the hassle This is why I still prefer to trade USDDKK instead of EURUSD.
  • #5,966
  • Feb 25, 2020 1:58am Feb 25, 2020 1:58am
Quoting Hutch
{quote} When the London session opens the spread of USDDKK will be less than 5 pips so it's worth the hassle This is why I still prefer to trade USDDKK instead of EURUSD.
OMG barely lol
  • #5,967
  • Feb 25, 2020 8:48am Feb 25, 2020 8:48am
Quoting xy100
{quote} Like i said the bigger ATR in DKK due to bigger dollar value is offset by bigger spread and smaller pip value. If you enter an exit opposite trades at the exact same time with the same leverage you will make more or less money dependent on the fact if the spread in DKK is not more than 6 times bigger than EURUSD. Imo not worth the hassle .
Again, that is why one would complain about the Oanda spread. It is not 6.8 DKK:1 EUR at other brokers, so you actually make more money trading DKK with them. That's the point. As for 1:1 on risk, you are correct. It has been a long time since I only traded 1 lot and cared about money/risk management, so I forgot about the profit-per-pip ratio. My spread is not as high as Oanda, so on turns I gain a bit more precision with DKK than with EUR.

You are using Oanda pricing to argue with us, but in reality, that just proves our point, lol. Their spread is too high and so there is no benefit to trading DKK with them compared to competitors, lol.
You cannot be extraordinary by being normal
  • #5,968
  • Feb 25, 2020 11:33am Feb 25, 2020 11:33am
Quoting dkrock
{quote} Again, that is why one would complain about the Oanda spread. It is not 6.8 DKK:1 EUR at other brokers, so you actually make more money trading DKK with them. That's the point. As for 1:1 on risk, you are correct. It has been a long time since I only traded 1 lot and cared about money/risk management, so I forgot about the profit-per-pip ratio. My spread is not as high as Oanda, so on turns I gain a bit more precision with DKK than with EUR. You are using Oanda pricing to argue...
You are entirely correct there is no benefit trading DKK with OANDA except on D1 charts. At least for me
Attached Images
  • #5,969
  • Edited 4:56am Feb 26, 2020 2:30am | Edited 4:56am
Quoting dkrock
{quote} Again, that is why one would complain about the Oanda spread. It is not 6.8 DKK:1 EUR at other brokers, so you actually make more money trading DKK with them. That's the point. As for 1:1 on risk, you are correct. It has been a long time since I only traded 1 lot and cared about money/risk management, so I forgot about the profit-per-pip ratio. My spread is not as high as Oanda, so on turns I gain a bit more precision with DKK than with EUR. You are using Oanda pricing to argue...
Considering this week Oanda introduced market depth which gets you EURUSD spread from 0.6 pip i dont know how wrong i am when i say
EURUSD is better deal than USDDKK even with 4 pip spread and that dont even takes into account possible price spikes that can
stop you out on USDDKK due to lower liquidity .
  • #5,970
  • Feb 26, 2020 7:48am Feb 26, 2020 7:48am
Quoting xy100
{quote} No you are completely off. Trading USDDKK 1lot would have made 538$ since the 1pip value there is 1.45usd. But that is not even the point since that side of the argument is only discussing difference in leverage one would have to take to make more money on one pair over the other.
High XY100, pay attention to DKrock, he´s one of the best, by far...different league...
  • #5,971
  • Feb 26, 2020 8:40am Feb 26, 2020 8:40am
Hutch,

After reading several of your post in reference to how long you have been with Oanda & seem to be doing well with them I got to thinking about my early days of trading forex with FXCM & thought I would share some thoughts of those times with you. FXCM had been in business just a few weeks when I open an account & one of the founding partners assisted me in getting signed up. Not sure if it was Dave or Drew, but in the early days it was not uncommon for one of those guys to answer the phone when you called. I was with FXCM until they were shut down by US regulators. During my time with FXCM I never had an issue that was not resolved & most of the time in my favor, but what I have to remember was FXCM was trying to build a customer base so they tried to be helpful & at times even at their expense if that expense was kept to a minimal. There trading platform was one of the best I have ever seen then or since. Everything was recorded on the platform down to the smallest detail. In their early days all was good with FXCM, but as they grew so did the problems. All in all I did make money trading through FXCM. It is a rigged game designed to cleanout the retail trader in a slow methodical way. Retail traders have to learn how it is rigged against them & trade accordingly. For a true breakdown of how the rigged system works take a look at videos by Anton Kreil if your not already aware of him. Since the closing of FXCM I have gone to the futures side of the FX Market & am well satisfied, but do miss the forex side. Glad your ok with Oanda. Just thought I would share this with you as I felt the same about FXCM the whole time I was with them. We are in a rigged business, but when you see how it is rigged then you can play ball.

Best trades to you Hutch.
  • #5,972
  • Feb 26, 2020 12:22pm Feb 26, 2020 12:22pm
Quoting acetrader
Hutch, After reading several of your post in reference to how long you have been with Oanda & seem to be doing well with them I got to thinking about my early days of trading forex with FXCM & thought I would share some thoughts of those times with you. FXCM had been in business just a few weeks when I open an account & one of the founding partners assisted me in getting signed up. Not sure if it was Dave or Drew, but in the early days it was not uncommon for one of those guys to answer the phone when you called. I was with FXCM until they were...
It looks like that FXCM was better than OANDA with services to customers. I hope that what remains to FXCM in the UK has the high services quality as the former parent company in the US. I think that everybody that has been trading for at least 5 years knows that the game is rigged especially with unregulated brokers that are mostly bucket shops. To avoid these problems 80% of my trades are on D1 charts. I also trade a few CFDs (Oil and FTSE) on RENKO charts plus my favorite currency pair USDDKK with another broker. I saw a few videos by Anton Kreil and they are eyes openers. Before starting to trade forex I traded stocks and stocks options that are in some ways nearly similar to futures. Thank you for the well wishes and happy profitable trading to you!
  • #5,973
  • Feb 26, 2020 3:34pm Feb 26, 2020 3:34pm
Hutch,
FXCM had a awesome trading platform. All the info you could ever want was logged on each trade. Haven't seen a better one yet. From your experience would a short term trader be targeted @ Oanda? Thats what I currently find appealing on the Futures side of trading. In & out in second, mins, or whatever you like, but each trade has the commission & a bit of slippage at times. Don't consider myself a scalper, but rarely hold a position overnight. Thank you for sharing your views on this.
  • #5,974
  • Feb 26, 2020 7:10pm Feb 26, 2020 7:10pm
Quoting xy100
{quote} Considering this week Oanda introduced market depth which gets you EURUSD spread from 0.6 pip i dont know how wrong i am when i say EURUSD is better deal than USDDKK even with 4 pip spread and that dont even takes into account possible price spikes that can stop you out on USDDKK due to lower liquidity .
For sure it is your business strategy, so you need to do what makes sense to you.
You cannot be extraordinary by being normal
  • #5,975
  • Feb 27, 2020 4:02pm Feb 27, 2020 4:02pm
Quoting acetrader
Hutch, FXCM had a awesome trading platform. All the info you could ever want was logged on each trade. Haven't seen a better one yet. From your experience would a short term trader be targeted @ Oanda? Thats what I currently find appealing on the Futures side of trading. In & out in second, mins, or whatever you like, but each trade has the commission & a bit of slippage at times. Don't consider myself a scalper, but rarely hold a position overnight. Thank you for sharing your views on this.
I don't think that OANDA targets short term traders but when there are big news events like NPF it considerably raises spreads but then most brokers do this except those with permanent fixed spreads. Since I'm mostly a D1 chart trader sometimes I have up to 6-7 trades opened and I'm happy with OANDA even if the swap is sometimes on the high side like on Wednesdays.
  • #5,976
  • Mar 2, 2020 12:19am Mar 2, 2020 12:19am
Quoting Hutch
{quote} I don't think that OANDA targets short term traders but when there are big news events like NPF it considerably raises spreads but then most brokers do this except those with permanent fixed spreads. Since I'm mostly a D1 chart trader sometimes I have up to 6-7 trades opened and I'm happy with OANDA even if the swap is sometimes on the high side like on Wednesdays.

Hi Hutch,

Thank you for sharing your experience with Oanda. I just might give them a try. Best trades to you my friend.
  • #5,977
  • Mar 11, 2020 1:52am Mar 11, 2020 1:52am
If the bad spreads weren't enough...

"...beginning in April 2020, we will be changing the way in which currency conversions of profits, losses and trading costs take place on the platform.

This means that realized P&L, fees and/or commissions related to trading instruments which have a different quote currency to your account currency will now incur a conversion charge. This charge is based on the prevailing mid-price of the applicable FX spot rate for the conversion, plus an additional spread of 0.5%."

(from Oanda Australia today).

So very soon Oanda will be taking a 0.5% cut out of all your profits AND adding 0.5% to all your losses (where the quote currency doesn't match the account currency)!!!
  • #5,978
  • Mar 11, 2020 6:51am Mar 11, 2020 6:51am
Quoting Fizzerr
If the bad spreads weren't enough... "...beginning in April 2020, we will be changing the way in which currency conversions of profits, losses and trading costs take place on the platform. This means that realized P&L, fees and/or commissions related to trading instruments which have a different quote currency to your account currency will now incur a conversion charge. This charge is based on the prevailing mid-price of the applicable FX spot rate for the conversion, plus an additional...
The whole FX business has become a gigantic fleecing system. Most will be completely out of funds before they figure it out. Some will reload their account & again lose it all & mostly likely still not understand what is happening. Just my views & nothing more. No account for me with the O.
  • #5,979
  • Mar 11, 2020 8:22pm Mar 11, 2020 8:22pm
Quoting Fizzerr
<snip> So very soon Oanda will be taking a 0.5% cut out of all your profits AND adding 0.5% to all your losses (where the quote currency doesn't match the account currency)!!!
I was horrified when I seen that bit!
They didn't put as much effort into highlighting that part of the email as they did the decreased spreads for those indices.

I have moved most of my trading now to other instruments and brokers recently. And will now decrease my Oanda funds too after this. Screw 'em.

Oanda just isn't the the fair operator it was since it changed hands.
Bundy's status today: "Waiting..."
  • #5,980
  • Mar 12, 2020 2:34am Mar 12, 2020 2:34am
Not just OANDA
Retail forex brokers must find creative ways to increase revenue from existing accounts due to the fact that fewer people are willing to open a retail forex accounts.
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