Trump’s tariffs were supposed to help manufacturers. But instead, they’re hurting | Metals Mine

  • Trump’s tariffs were supposed to help manufacturers. But instead, they’re hurting

    From apnews.com

    Jay Allen is a fan of President Donald Trump, and voted for him on the belief that the Republican would cut taxes and trim regulations, helping his manufacturing business in northeast Arkansas. But the tariffs at the core of Trump’s economic agenda have wreaked havoc on his company, Allen Engineering Corp., which makes industrial equipment used to install, finish and pave concrete. The import taxes have raised the costs of engines, steel, gearboxes and clutches made abroad that Allen needs to build power trowels that can sell for up to $100,000 each. Allen’s experience embodies a growing body of evidence that the ... (full story)

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FlyingTurtle
Mar 18, 2026 3:47am
Permalink
So far Trump's tariffs have eliminated 100k manufacturing jobs and busted many smaller manufacturers which results in consolidating industries into larger hands with more pricing power. Meanwhile the deficit is huge and China is doing better than ever.

He hasn't done anything right and it begs the question how someone can be so dumb.
Reply
FlyingTurtle
Mar 18, 2026 4:38pm
Permalink
Quoting Riziq-Cap
{quote} Normally you provide value in your comments, but you seem stubborn in this case for whatever reason? - I am not trying to shit on your murikan empire, just having an honest objective discussion! Manufacturing jobs were replaced with service jobs: - Instead of building shit, youngsters serve coffee, run a restaurants, transportation etc basically customer service - although automation have taken over most labor intensive jobs in the farming industry, you still need people to do various tasks and those are reserved for immigrants. Now running...
I think I'm being fairly objective and not sure what point you're making that I'm not conceding but you have to realize that bringing manufacturing jobs back will cost 2-3 service jobs, lower wages, and raise prices. It's a mathematical inevitability that has been demonstrated in numerous studies. That fact should tell you that manufacturing jobs are not worth much.

There is no functional difference between manufactured goods and services provided. Services (ie the labor of making me coffee) is worth more than goods (ie the coffee beans). Services can actually be thought of as commodities.

There is no benefit to going back in time to do hard labor again. The point of machines and tech is to go forward, not backward.

My point isn't that $15 is sufficient, but to demonstrate that it is twice the legal minimum, which can only happen as a result of severe labor shortage. For the first time in history we do not need min wage laws because the market has already doubled the lowest wages on its own.

Quote
im just pointing out the fact that a value-based-chain was replaced with a value-less-chain and it was done deliberately to achieve world reserve currency at the expense of world population, including population inside the empire core.

I agree it was done deliberately but not to achieve any goals except to have more efficient markets that benefit everyone. The USD has been declining as a reserve currency the entire time so how can offshoring manufacturing be to cause USD hegemony when the opposite had resulted? The USD has gone from 70% reserves to about 50% since the hollowing out began.

Your position is something nefarious is afoot and my position is that it was just good business with no nefarious intent.

I know a guy who had a machine shop that NAFTA shut down and he is still mad about it, but I tell him look how much better life is with lots of cheap stuff. Sure, it hurt him personally but it made the lives of multitudes of people much better. Basically it sacrificed a few for the benefit of many.

Trump wants to undo that: sacrifice the many for the benefit of a few.
Reply
Riziq-Cap
Mar 18, 2026 4:02am
Permalink
Quoting FlyingTurtle
So far Trump's tariffs have eliminated 100k manufacturing jobs and busted many smaller manufacturers which results in consolidating industries into larger hands with more pricing power. Meanwhile the deficit is huge and China is doing better than ever. He hasn't done anything right and it begs the question how someone can be so dumb.
Is it really incompetence or is it deliberate?
Riziq-Cap
Mar 18, 2026 4:45am
Permalink
Quoting FlyingTurtle
{quote} I don't know if he's smart enough for it to be deliberate.

This is continuation of policy spanning decades.

You really think drumpf is looking at spread-sheets of trading partners and deciding tariff x on this country, tariff y on this country?

Informed sources describe him with attention span of a child, never reads any books and require short - gesticulated briefings - if not, you lose his attention after 3-4 minutes.

What do you think is most probable and closest to reality?
Riziq-Cap
Mar 18, 2026 5:32am
Permalink
Quoting FlyingTurtle
{quote} Tariffs are a policy spanning decades? {quote} Probably one of his pro-tariff crew. {quote} He's always advocated tariffs so he's probably doing what he thinks is right, but he's too stupid and stubborn to consider how he's wrong.
The tariff policy have not been spanning for decades, but the policy of deliberate hallowing out manufacturing and industrialization in murika under various pretexts over several decades.

This is all connected to the USD-reserve currency ponzy.

This is an empire, which have been fairly successful in implementing its plans for over half a century, world wide - it does not run a new plan every 4 years based on so called election results.

My whole point is this is not incompetence, since this is not an anomaly - proof of that is policy effect over time.

The only topic up for question/speculation is the WHY - but we know the how!
Riziq-Cap
Mar 18, 2026 1:49pm
Permalink
Quoting FlyingTurtle
{quote} I don't think the hollowing out was deliberate. It's just that competitors can produce more efficiently and since the government meddling in the market to support inefficient US manufacturing proved counterproductive that is just how things evolved. Nothing nefarious afoot.
This is not even a theory, its economic science and the consequences were known and deliberately implemented.
- the well being of the country was trades for running an empire, simple as that.

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Riziq-Cap
Mar 18, 2026 2:17pm
Permalink
Quoting FlyingTurtle
{quote} Sure, the consequences were known and deliberately implemented but not with nefarious intent. The outcome was actually a very good thing: instead of the US making its own products inefficiently, it concentrated on doing other tasks that were more productive and let others do the manufacturing more efficiently than the US could. Same as me working to make money then paying someone to mow the lawn. It makes no sense for me to stop my job just to mow the lawn. Neither does it make sense to bring manufacturing back to the US. For every manufacturing...
A country need jobs, 300 million murikans cant all be bankers.

Its not like you all stopped working and got stimulus checks?

Guess what manufacturing jobs were exchange with?
Riziq-Cap
Mar 18, 2026 2:30pm
Permalink
Quoting FlyingTurtle
{quote} The US has too many jobs and not enough employees. That's why wages are so high, even with immigration. The last thing the US needs is more remedial jobs.
sigh!

How did the country replace millions of manufacturing jobs?
Riziq-Cap
Mar 18, 2026 3:52pm
Permalink
Quoting FlyingTurtle
{quote} The same way I replaced farming my own food with another job that pays me more than what the farming was worth. US workers simply got jobs that were better than manufacturing. Minimum wage is $7.25 but the starting wage is $15 because workers are hard to find. Managers can't even discipline workers for fear of losing them. But if taxes are raised to force manufacturing back then it will cost more jobs than it creates, causing wages to decline, and cause prices to go up.
Normally you provide value in your comments, but you seem stubborn in this case for whatever reason?
- I am not trying to shit on your murikan empire, just having an honest objective discussion!

Manufacturing jobs were replaced with service jobs:
- Instead of building shit, youngsters serve coffee, run a restaurants, transportation etc basically customer service
- although automation have taken over most labor intensive jobs in the farming industry, you still need people to do various tasks and those are reserved for immigrants.

Now running your own life vs running a city or country is completely different:
- Manufacturing is not just a fancy sounding word, its a strategy and provides value to society, building shit is 1000x better than being the best coffee barista or restaurateur for society and country.
- murika does build shit, but it builds service oriented solutions in the tech industry - Uber, food delivery, social media and other crap.

A value based chain was replaced with a monopolistic, value-less chain.

Last thing: Lets be honest, 15$ is hardly enough money to survive on - perhaps if you are bachelor and live alone? but you cant raise a family with that - murika does have high wages, but living expenses are equally high.

I am not arguing for raising taxes to re-industrialize, im just pointing out the fact that a value-based-chain was replaced with a value-less-chain and it was done deliberately to achieve world reserve currency at the expense of world population, including population inside the empire core.
Riziq-Cap
Mar 18, 2026 5:34pm
Permalink
Quoting FlyingTurtle
{quote} I think I'm being fairly objective and not sure what point you're making that I'm not conceding but you have to realize that bringing manufacturing jobs back will cost 2-3 service jobs, lower wages, and raise prices. It's a mathematical inevitability that has been demonstrated in numerous studies. That fact should tell you that manufacturing jobs are not worth much. There is no functional difference between manufactured goods and services provided. Services (ie the labor of making me coffee) is worth more than goods (ie the coffee beans)....
It seems like we value those sectors fundamentally different, as in manufacturing and service jobs - which is fair enough.

In that case, my points will not make sense to you, as I view manufacturing an important national strategy, on par with national security.

Discussing the other points becomes moot, when we disagree on the fundamentals.

We can agree to disagree on this issue!
FlyingTurtle
Mar 18, 2026 5:19am
Permalink
Quoting Riziq-Cap
{quote} This is continuation of policy spanning decades.
Tariffs are a policy spanning decades?

Quote
You really think drumpf is looking at spread-sheets of trading partners and deciding tariff x on this country, tariff y on this country?

Probably one of his pro-tariff crew.

Quote
What do you think is most probable and closest to reality?

He's always advocated tariffs so he's probably doing what he thinks is right, but he's too stupid and stubborn to consider how he's wrong.
Reply
FlyingTurtle
Mar 18, 2026 11:50am
Permalink
Quoting Trader#2FB4
{quote} Yes, decades. Every president has used them. Clinton used tariffs, Bush used tariffs, Obama used tariffs, Biden used tariffs, Trump used tariffs, and the next president will use tariffs. You're just dumb.
Looks like quite the opposite. It turns out taxing the efficient to support the inefficient is dumb.

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Reply
FlyingTurtle
Mar 18, 2026 11:54am
Permalink
Quoting Riziq-Cap
{quote} The tariff policy have not been spanning for decades, but the policy of deliberate hallowing out manufacturing and industrialization in murika under various pretexts over several decades. This is all connected to the USD-reserve currency ponzy. This is an empire, which have been fairly successful in implementing its plans for over half a century, world wide - it does not run a new plan every 4 years based on so called election results. My whole point is this is not incompetence, since this is not an anomaly - proof of that is policy effect...
I don't think the hollowing out was deliberate. It's just that competitors can produce more efficiently and since the government meddling in the market to support inefficient US manufacturing proved counterproductive that is just how things evolved. Nothing nefarious afoot.
Reply
FlyingTurtle
Mar 18, 2026 2:06pm
Permalink
Quoting Riziq-Cap
{quote} This is not even a theory, its economic science and the consequences were known and deliberately implemented. - the well being of the country was trades for running an empire, simple as that. {image}
Sure, the consequences were known and deliberately implemented but not with nefarious intent. The outcome was actually a very good thing: instead of the US making its own products inefficiently, it concentrated on doing other tasks that were more productive and let others do the manufacturing more efficiently than the US could. Same as me working to make money then paying someone to mow the lawn. It makes no sense for me to stop my job just to mow the lawn. Neither does it make sense to bring manufacturing back to the US. For every manufacturing job saved, 2 or 3 jobs are lost elsewhere in the economy.

There was no grand conspiracy to hollow out manufacturing; it was just a sensible thing to do. Just like there was no conspiracy to stop people from gardening by supplying grocery stores. Buying food is a lot easier and cheaper than growing my own.

And the trade deficit lowers US interest rates by providing a large pool of foreign buyers for US debt. Remove the deficit and those buyers go away.
Reply
FlyingTurtle
Mar 18, 2026 2:25pm
Permalink
Quoting Riziq-Cap
{quote} A country need jobs, 300 million murikans cant all be bankers. Its not like you all stopped working and got stimulus checks? Guess what manufacturing jobs were exchange with?
The US has too many jobs and not enough employees. That's why wages are so high, even with immigration. The last thing the US needs is more remedial jobs.
Reply
FlyingTurtle
Mar 18, 2026 3:30pm
Permalink
Quoting Riziq-Cap
{quote} sigh! How did the country replace millions of manufacturing jobs?
The same way I replaced farming my own food with another job that pays me more than what the farming was worth. US workers simply got jobs that were better than manufacturing.

Minimum wage is $7.25 but the starting wage is $15 because workers are hard to find. Managers can't even discipline workers for fear of losing them.

But if taxes are raised to force manufacturing back then it will cost more jobs than it creates, causing wages to decline, and cause prices to go up.
Reply
FlyingTurtle
Mar 18, 2026 6:10pm
Permalink
Quoting Riziq-Cap
{quote} It seems like we value those sectors fundamentally different, as in manufacturing and service jobs - which is fair enough. In that case, my points will not make sense to you, as I view manufacturing an important national strategy, on par with national security. Discussing the other points becomes moot, when we disagree on the fundamentals. We can agree to disagree on this issue!
Sure there are tradeoffs, and from a security standpoint being able to manufacture is a good thing but honestly we wouldn't have enemies to fear if politicians didn't make enemies, and a lot of it is theatre.

Yes, if I delegate my farming and hunting to grocery stores and I lose the ability to provide my own food then obviously I'm vulnerable if the system breaks down, but the system shouldn't break down and I can't spend my life expecting it to.

Option 1) I can get a good job paying good money but I won't have time to grow food and hunt so I'd have to trust others to offer food in exchange for money.

Option 2) I can live poor and do lots of hard work growing food and hunting. It would be a hard life but I wouldn't have to trust anyone but myself.

So it's a tradeoff: I can live a good life trusting others or I can live a hard live relying on myself.

Likewise the US can either delegate manufacturing to other countries and be very prosperous or it can live in fear and give up prosperity in exchange for security.
Reply
FlyingTurtle
Mar 18, 2026 4:33am
Permalink
Quoting Riziq-Cap
{quote} Is it really incompetence or is it deliberate?
I don't know if he's smart enough for it to be deliberate.
Reply
Trader#47D5
Mar 18, 2026 3:40am
Permalink
Quoting Ferna
Then Allan should buy american!!
Says someone "trading from Sweden", how very proud you are... Why don't you enjoy dumbo's policies from behind the Atlantic then?
Reply
Trader#2FB4
Mar 18, 2026 5:59am
Permalink
Quoting FlyingTurtle
{quote} Tariffs are a policy spanning decades? {quote} Probably one of his pro-tariff crew. {quote} He's always advocated tariffs so he's probably doing what he thinks is right, but he's too stupid and stubborn to consider how he's wrong.
Yes, decades. Every president has used them. Clinton used tariffs, Bush used tariffs, Obama used tariffs, Biden used tariffs, Trump used tariffs, and the next president will use tariffs. You're just dumb.
Reply
Trader#A054
Mar 18, 2026 12:23pm
Permalink
https://x.com/POTUS46Archive/status/1790385220983677016
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