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  • #49,281
  • Jun 8, 2025 6:13pm Jun 8, 2025 6:13pm
Quoting Takisd
{quote} 20 pip a day system will die fast when you scale it. The only systems that can survive all markets and liquidity issues are ones that are not tighten on stops and are gathering larger moves in the market. For example, 100 points on an index or 80 pips on eurusd. This is what is needed to scale trading and not have negative effects as you grow. One issue is all these fake influencer have painted wrong picture of what trading is at retail level. No one has made 15 trades on gold during NFP and made 80k profit (as an example i saw by one african...
Well, I did not talk about stop. I only talked about clean 20 pips profit. I did not talk about lot size until now.

Is it not possible ? For example in GU?

If all feel it is not possible, what are we doing here?

Prop trading or private acc trading ?
Intraday only.
  • #49,282
  • Jun 8, 2025 7:14pm Jun 8, 2025 7:14pm
Quoting dilidanjaro
{quote} can you explain more the 20pips idea? i mean on ftmo you can go to 400k and then more..
I consider a 100k account with 100 leverage.

Profit target 15000
DLL 5000
MLL 10000

What you need is 20 pips daily.

If you trade 2 lots, your account can survive 250 pips ( DLL ), so the lot size is less.
If you trade 3 lots, your account can survive 170 pips ( DLL )
If you trade 2.5 lots, your account can survive 200 pips. ( DLL )

You choose your lot size based on risk appetite.

Pair to trade ? I will trade GU only.

when you capture 20 pips, it is 400 dollar or 600 dollar or 500 dollar.

How long you take to achieve 15k profit ?

Roughly, 40 days.

If I trade FTMO, I go with this plan. No more than 20 pips profit, no more than 2 to 3 lots.

You can sleep well in night time.
Intraday only.
  • #49,283
  • Jun 9, 2025 1:55am Jun 9, 2025 1:55am
One of my stupidiest days where i mess up payouts purely on me...
SO many revenge and stupid trades and dll ...

Blue Guardian DLL, Futureselite DLL, Tradeify DLL, Passed Tpt, Apex recovered most of the losses try to get to breakeven, Topone 400$ up..

Completely bad trading n management.....
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Extreme gut feeling trader
  • #49,284
  • Jun 9, 2025 2:21am Jun 9, 2025 2:21am
Quoting navk
{quote} Well, I did not talk about stop. I only talked about clean 20 pips profit. I did not talk about lot size until now. Is it not possible ? For example in GU? If all feel it is not possible, what are we doing here? Prop trading or private acc trading ?
It is not possible on any pair when you scale it. Because eventually the spread becomes too much as you try to execute. For making some money to buy condoms and alcohol it is fine. If you want to do it full time 20 pips tp and reasonable risk management, it is a losing paradigm.

To beat the market without having speed advantage is very difficult, people shouldn't paint the illusion it is easy.

This is why people always crying about slippage and spread because for small trades its easy to get perfect conditions, for big it is impossible. Broker or prop doesnt matter.
  • #49,285
  • Edited 7:35am Jun 9, 2025 6:44am | Edited 7:35am
Quoting Takisd
{quote} It is not possible on any pair when you scale it. Because eventually the spread becomes too much as you try to execute. For making some money to buy condoms and alcohol it is fine. If you want to do it full time 20 pips tp and reasonable risk management, it is a losing paradigm. To beat the market without having speed advantage is very difficult, people shouldn't paint the illusion it is easy. This is why people always crying about slippage and spread because for small trades its easy to get perfect conditions, for big it is impossible....
what do you mean by speed advantage ?
You mean, news trading ?

So, normal trading not advisable in your opinion ?
Intraday only.
  • #49,286
  • Jun 9, 2025 7:19am Jun 9, 2025 7:19am
Hey guys, I'm thinking of giving futures prop a go. I've tried to keep up with this thread but haven't checked on things for quite some time - what would you suggest in terms of getting started (e.g., which firms and account types/sizes)?

Thanks in advance!
  • #49,287
  • Jun 9, 2025 7:23am Jun 9, 2025 7:23am
Quoting Takisd
{quote} It is not possible on any pair when you scale it. Because eventually the spread becomes too much as you try to execute. For making some money to buy condoms and alcohol it is fine. If you want to do it full time 20 pips tp and reasonable risk management, it is a losing paradigm. To beat the market without having speed advantage is very difficult, people shouldn't paint the illusion it is easy. This is why people always crying about slippage and spread because for small trades its easy to get perfect conditions, for big it is impossible....
It all depends... slippage wont be a issue if using multiple brokers with trade split for example If a trader wants to open 100 lots no broker in the world will give slippage if you break down into 100 (1 lot trade) across 10 different brokers with limit order.
Real challenge with 20 pip challenge is would a trader able to treat 0.01 lot trade with 20 pip stop and 30 pips target same as 100 lots .
  • #49,288
  • Jun 9, 2025 7:31am Jun 9, 2025 7:31am
Quoting sampat
{quote} It all depends... slippage wont be a issue if using multiple brokers with trade split for example If a trader wants to open 100 lots no broker in the world will give slippage if you break down into 100 (1 lot trade) across 10 different brokers with limit order. Real challenge with 20 pip challenge is would a trader able to treat 0.01 lot trade with 20 pip stop and 30 pips target same as 100 lots .
I did not talk about stop in my post.

I only talked abot TP.

And GU, the trading time also matters
Intraday only.
  • #49,289
  • Jun 9, 2025 7:46am Jun 9, 2025 7:46am
Quoting navk
{quote} what do you mean by speed advantage ? You mean, news trading ? So, normal trading not advisable in your opinion ?
What is normal trading?
You are right, your didn't mention your stop, will your stop be 100 pips? for 20 pips tp?

The point is decay will eat a strategy thats say a 20:20 SL/TP if you scale size to make income. If you trade so 60 pip stops 80 pip take profits, the decay likely won't affect your trading as you size up.

But lets be honest, there is a reason we are still buying challenges here.
  • #49,290
  • Jun 9, 2025 8:04am Jun 9, 2025 8:04am
Quoting Takisd
{quote} What is normal trading? You are right, your didn't mention your stop, will your stop be 100 pips? for 20 pips tp? The point is decay will eat a strategy thats say a 20:20 SL/TP if you scale size to make income. If you trade so 60 pip stops 80 pip take profits, the decay likely won't affect your trading as you size up. But lets be honest, there is a reason we are still buying challenges here.
I do not mean 20 pip tp and 20pip stop.

Tell me something how many prop accounts we blown due to 20 pip stop and how many we can not blow if we do a proper lot sizing based on DLL / MLL ?
Intraday only.
  • #49,291
  • Jun 9, 2025 8:09am Jun 9, 2025 8:09am
Quoting Takisd
{quote} What is normal trading? You are right, your didn't mention your stop, will your stop be 100 pips? for 20 pips tp? The point is decay will eat a strategy thats say a 20:20 SL/TP if you scale size to make income. If you trade so 60 pip stops 80 pip take profits, the decay likely won't affect your trading as you size up. But lets be honest, there is a reason we are still buying challenges here.
My 500 dollar account private, is simple if i do trade 0.1 lot size in GU.

Will never blow that account ever, unless i add lot size... to 0.12...0.15....0. 20.... like that. ( out of emotion, fear of loosing etc )

And with 0.1 lot size, in gu, if the price goes against me 500 pips, i loose my account ?
My lot size :

500 = 0.1
1000 = 0.2
1500 = 0.3
2000 = 0.4
2500 = 0.5
5000 = 1 lot
10000 = 2 lot
15000 = 3 lot
20000 = 2.5 lot
25000 = 2 lot
30000 = 1.5 lot
and above = 1 lot to 1.5 lot.
Intraday only.
  • #49,292
  • Jun 9, 2025 8:32am Jun 9, 2025 8:32am
Quoting krazi
Hey guys, I'm thinking of giving futures prop a go. I've tried to keep up with this thread but haven't checked on things for quite some time - what would you suggest in terms of getting started (e.g., which firms and account types/sizes)? Thanks in advance!
as you are starting i would suggest go with the cheapest challenges to get yourself familiarized with conditions and rules…. For intra trailing use apex or bulenox challenge. I think will cost close to 30$ for 50k and for end of day trailing blue guardian or aqua funded that will be 50$ for 50k.
Extreme gut feeling trader
  • #49,293
  • Jun 9, 2025 8:59am Jun 9, 2025 8:59am
Quoting Takisd
{quote} What is normal trading? You are right, your didn't mention your stop, will your stop be 100 pips? for 20 pips tp? The point is decay will eat a strategy thats say a 20:20 SL/TP if you scale size to make income. If you trade so 60 pip stops 80 pip take profits, the decay likely won't affect your trading as you size up. But lets be honest, there is a reason we are still buying challenges here.
Takisd what do you mean by decay? also 20 pips is well sufficient for FX markets .. I assume no whales in here like the Instos out there and in any case you can feed your positions in and out - dont need to place 1000 lots in one hit - spread it over a few seconds apart depending on liquidity.
  • #49,294
  • Jun 9, 2025 9:13am Jun 9, 2025 9:13am
Quoting navk
{quote} I did not talk about stop in my post. I only talked abot TP. And GU, the trading time also matters
so is win rate 100%? 20 pips sounds great and all but what about theose days where you have 1 loss? 2 losses? how many trades will you need to get to the +20 pips for the day?
Once again, if win rate is 100%, not sure why you are even on this thread?
  • #49,295
  • Jun 9, 2025 9:15am Jun 9, 2025 9:15am
Quoting navk
{quote} My 500 dollar account private, is simple if i do trade 0.1 lot size in GU. Will never blow that account ever, unless i add lot size... to 0.12...0.15....0. 20.... like that. ( out of emotion, fear of loosing etc ) And with 0.1 lot size, in gu, if the price goes against me 500 pips, i loose my account ? My lot size : 500 = 0.1 1000 = 0.2 1500 = 0.3 2000 = 0.4 2500 = 0.5 5000 = 1 lot 10000 = 2 lot 15000 = 3 lot 20000 = 2.5 lot 25000 = 2 lot 30000 = 1.5 lot and above = 1 lot to 1.5 lot.
so are you proposing a 500 pip risk to make 20 pips?
  • #49,296
  • Jun 9, 2025 9:15am Jun 9, 2025 9:15am
Quoting Spearion
{quote} Takisd what do you mean by decay? also 20 pips is well sufficient for FX markets .. I assume no whales in here like the Instos out there and in any case you can feed your positions in and out - dont need to place 1000 lots in one hit - spread it over a few seconds apart depending on liquidity.
If you start opening more than 10 lots you wlil get slippage most orders on the stop/close and open. It starts to eat your "edge". The more you grow in position size the more the decay.
  • #49,297
  • Jun 9, 2025 9:19am Jun 9, 2025 9:19am
Quoting Takisd
{quote} If you start opening more than 10 lots you wlil get slippage most orders on the stop/close and open. It starts to eat your "edge". The more you grow in position size the more the decay.
It's fantasy land......we have all done these spreadsheets, usually the first 1-2 weeks as a beginer......wow, if I just make 20 pips a day and compund, in 18 months I will the richest person on earth!!!!!
  • #49,298
  • Jun 9, 2025 9:26am Jun 9, 2025 9:26am
Quoting pipmaster77
{quote} so are you proposing a 500 pip risk to make 20 pips?
My question is :

How many 500 dollar accounts you blown with 0.1 lot size in a day ? ( in GU )

Then you can talk about stop
Intraday only.
  • #49,299
  • Jun 9, 2025 9:29am Jun 9, 2025 9:29am
Quoting Takisd
{quote} If you start opening more than 10 lots you wlil get slippage most orders on the stop/close and open. It starts to eat your "edge". The more you grow in position size the more the decay.
yeh I think if you are getting significant slippage on 10 lots then the broker is crap - thats nothing in notional value compared to the daily FX value transacted in FX. 100 lots maybe and even then the broker is still crap. They will slip if they are screwing you over or their liquidity pool is too small. And slippage is very easy to prove and something a broker does not want publicised.

10 lot trades with 20 pips TP/SL and you have an expectancy that is positive (sufficiently positive and not barely positive) would be enough for a tidy income.
  • #49,300
  • Jun 9, 2025 9:30am Jun 9, 2025 9:30am
Quoting pipmaster77
{quote} so are you proposing a 500 pip risk to make 20 pips?
And my question is do you have a trading system that will hit 500 pips stop ?

I have a trading system that will not hit 500 pips.

Risk management 50 %, trading system, technical 50 %,
Intraday only.
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