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  • #43,201
  • Edited 1:57pm Oct 13, 2024 1:14pm | Edited 1:57pm
Quoting acetrader
TrAndy1, Based only any research you may have complied would you give me your views on E8 Markets? Thank you for your response.
I do not trust them, I heard too many hidden rules from them when it comes to payout. Also the pricing to value is not good. I would not buy from them.
E8 pricing is almost same like FTMO they are not cheaper. Now let me calculate that I have no advantage trading on FTMO than on personal broker account.
The 200k at FTMO cost €1080, because of 15% profit targets cumulated to 10% max. Drawdown, it is valued e^(1.5)=2.71^(1.5)=4, sp 1080=4320 Euro, which is around 4720 US Dollar. If you then aim for 10% profit on funded account status at FTMO the value is compounded to e^1*4720=2.71*4720=12800 US Dollar, and I get from FTMO as payout on 10% profits 16000 US Dollar (without the refund here, as this is one time off and not repeated refund on every payout). So I can compare 12800 from personal compounding to 16000 from FTMO as payout. That is before taxes in Germany. Now since self employed is taxed with up to 42% and personal only with 26% there is disadvantage trading prop firms. Also since FTMO is based on EU ground you also need to pay 19% sales tax. So what do I have after taxes in comparison ? From those 12800 personal profit I have ca. 9470 versus on FTMO i have after taxes 7520. So it would be stupid to trade on FTMO since I have more profits after taxes just trading on my personal broker account. It is similar to E8, but there is no EU sales tax here since they are US based, but still there is no value!
  • #43,202
  • Oct 13, 2024 2:00pm Oct 13, 2024 2:00pm
Quoting TrAndy1
{quote} I do not trust them, I heard too many hidden rules from them when it comes to payout. Also the pricing to value is not good. I would not buy from them. E8 pricing is almost same like FTMO they are not cheaper. Now let me calculate that I have no advantage trading on FTMO than on personal broker account. The 200k at FTMO cost €1080, because of 15% profit targets cumulated to 10% max. Drawdown, it is valued e^(1.5)=2.71^(1.5)=4, sp 1080=4320 Euro, which is around 4720 US Dollar. If you then aim for 10% profit on funded account status at FTMO...
Thank you for your view. Most appreciated. You confirmed what I was thinking.
  • #43,203
  • Oct 13, 2024 2:27pm Oct 13, 2024 2:27pm
Also if someone is thinking about the TopStep or TakeProfitTrader offer, I can say from a mathematical view, it does not make sense even before taxes to join any of those challenges as they are harder to master than what you have as value on compounding yourself on your personal broker account. All rules included here in the comparison. Trailing makes it much harder to provide any value from a trader perspective to choose a prop firm than just focusing on the personal broker account. Actually there are some offers which provides value from a math point. This is instant models like Tradeify (and I exclude FTT here because of payout problems) and also Quant Tekel. So for me as I do not trade the futures and mostly swing trading with holding overnights over several days, I have only Quant Tekel as option here.
And this is valid only with the current deep discounts they offer on their promo codes. If there was no discount or whatsoever, there would be no prop firm left for that.
  • #43,204
  • Oct 13, 2024 2:47pm Oct 13, 2024 2:47pm
For example on the best promo code offer of TakeProfitTrader which has the best value among all futures prop firms, it still does not make sense to join. It is better to just trade on your own personal account. Why ? Here is the math: For a $50k challenge you need to pay around $100 without any other fees. YOu need to make 1.5 times the max. DD with consistency rule, where you need to factor in the difficulty something between 1.5 for EOD trailing and factor of 2 with live trailing DD models. So here we add 1.5 as factor. So $100*e(uler figure for compounding)^(1.5)*1.5=$100*4*1.5*=$600. Now you need to make same amount like drawdown on funded, which is e^1 as difficult factor because you could compound on your personal broker account continued. So $600*2.7*1.5 (here the lower consistency factor applied to show you that it even with lower factors it still does not make sense to join) = ca. $2400 as compound value on the paid fee based on what you need to achieve before you can get your desired payout, which is here in this case only $2000, so on personal broker account you would have $2400 as value versus you get only $2000 from prop firm. So you see it does not make sense to join over 99.9% of all prop firms. And then you need to exclude all the rest of prop firms who does not do payouts or have too much payout complaints like Goat Funded prop firm for example here. So actually there is only the instant no evaluation model Tradeify left which makes sense from a math point but with the discount code only and then Quant Tekel from the CFD prop firm side, also with the current 50% promo code only. So anyone considering joining prop firms should do the math before, I am encouraging. Then you see that it does not make sense in most cases. And that above calculation was before any individual country tax laws which could even make it harder to favor any prop firm offer. Of course if anyone has only the idea to do arbitrage hedging between personal broker account and the trading on prop firms then it makes nearly always sense to join any prop firm, as the calculation is different. But this is then cheating. I was only demonstrating the real trading, like you are doing it on a live broker personal account with real executions.
  • #43,205
  • Oct 13, 2024 2:49pm Oct 13, 2024 2:49pm
Quoting TrAndy1
For example on the best promo code offer of TakeProfitTrader which has the best value among all futures prop firms, it still does not make sense to join. It is better to just trade on your own personal account. Why ? Here is the math: For a $50k challenge you need to pay around $100 without any other fees. YOu need to make 1.5 times the max. DD with consistency rule, where you need to factor in the difficulty something between 1.5 for EOD trailing and factor of 2 with live trailing DD models. So here we add 1.5 as factor. So $100*e(uler figure for...
Yeah i disagree , but anyways cant wait to trade Topstep week 2 on combine !
SKQT - Super Kool Quant Trader
Daily Remy All Time Return: 5.6%
  • #43,206
  • Oct 13, 2024 3:09pm Oct 13, 2024 3:09pm
Quoting Erpthetrader
{quote} Yeah i disagree , but anyways cant wait to trade Topstep week 2 on combine !
I hope you are not cheating. But even when not I can understand your point. It is like being in school again and then follow a teacher his rules, doing exams and when you pass you get your certificate on digital paper, which you can print out and put it on your wall as one of your great achievements in your life. This is side effect other than payouts you get them in addition to your passed exams. But everyone is different. I prefer more freedom I have with my personal account and not dealing all the time with strict rules, they make extra pressure and stress to me. But everyone is different, some people needs to be dominated by rules and need to do passing exams like playing video games and then passing on to the next level. Of course that kind of extra "joy" you do not get when trading on personal broker account only. There is no one saying, hey you are trading great, you get certificate or something similar, or even there is no ranking at all, worldwide among all traders on a broker. But math is math and I was only pointing out the money what you get for it versus trading that money and compound yourself on your broker account. That's it. But I understand.
  • #43,207
  • Edited 4:41pm Oct 13, 2024 4:29pm | Edited 4:41pm
He is also saying it is about making money and not about being right, like on other distractions we have today with all the joy of following strict rules doing exams on passing levels/Phases and be in the ranking of prop firms.
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  • #43,208
  • Oct 13, 2024 5:08pm Oct 13, 2024 5:08pm
Quoting TrAndy1
{quote} I hope you are not cheating. But even when not I can understand your point. It is like being in school again and then follow a teacher his rules, doing exams and when you pass you get your certificate on digital paper, which you can print out and put it on your wall as one of your great achievements in your life. This is side effect other than payouts you get them in addition to your passed exams. But everyone is different. I prefer more freedom I have with my personal account and not dealing all the time with strict rules, they make extra...
Every trader is different and has different styles of trading… so for me topstep is exactly what I need. I’m from the US so no more FTMO and other trusted props I loved. Trading my own account will not make me a lot of money plain and simple… which is why many people use these funding companies. It’s unfortunate for others that these rules can hinder one’s strategy but luckily for me it works smooth as butter
SKQT - Super Kool Quant Trader
Daily Remy All Time Return: 5.6%
  • #43,209
  • Edited 7:37pm Oct 13, 2024 5:51pm | Edited 7:37pm
Unclear hidden rules it seems from IC Funded response I got now, I do not like that. This is actually my first red flag with this prop. They are not telling us this.

"An example of the application of the consistency rule is that traders should avoid trading large lot sizes, such as 40 lots, in the first few days to reach a profit target and then drastically reduce their trade size to 0.1 lots for the remaining days. The trading approach during the challenge phases must be consistent with what would be applicable in the funded stage, without significant differences in trade size. While the rule does not require uniformity, it does aim to prevent significant discrepancies in trade size that could be viewed as volatile or high-risk."

---------------------------------

So if there is a lot size consistency among eval and funded too, why they just do not publish a formula for that than rather not saying anything about on their website ? Also in the pdf I found this, there was nothing about a lot size consistency at all mentioned not even the terminology of that. So clearly a hidden rule hear. Anyone trading with IC FUNDED is informed now. But usually the lot size consistency rule comes with other consistencies aswell. When there is lotsize rule then there is also a risksize rule, so you cannot have much different risk per trade. I ask them again about other consistencies as they made just one example to me, which is of course not sufficient, as you need to know all such rules ! It feels myself like being a private detective searching for hidden things which are important but nowhere mentioned.
  • #43,210
  • Oct 13, 2024 6:21pm Oct 13, 2024 6:21pm
Quoting TrAndy1
Unclear hidden rules it seems from IC Funded response I got now, I do not like that. This is actually my first red flag with this prop. They are not telling us this. . ..It feels myself like being a private detective searching for hidden things which are important but nowhere mentioned.
I really didn't know that it is so difficult for prop firms to earn a dollar from you. The top private detective agencies are hiring.
  • #43,211
  • Oct 13, 2024 6:49pm Oct 13, 2024 6:49pm
Quoting failinforex
{quote} I really didn't know that it is so difficult for prop firms to earn a dollar from you. The top private detective agencies are hiring.
Trandy can be a bit delusional sometimes but some of his posts have some good infos about props
  • #43,212
  • Oct 13, 2024 6:50pm Oct 13, 2024 6:50pm
Quoting TrAndy1
Unclear hidden rules it seems from IC Funded response I got now, I do not like that. This is actually my first red flag with this prop. They are not telling us this. " Hello Trader, Thank you for contacting IC Funded. The consistency rules for the two-phase challenges at IC Funded require traders to trade on at least five different days to pass each phase and to avoid inactivity for more than 30 consecutive days. This rule is designed to ensure that traders demonstrate consistent trading behavior from the evaluation to the funded phases, reflecting...
Trandy have u checked if the trading pit is worthy? they have 20 or 25% coupon
  • #43,213
  • Edited Oct 14, 2024 3:58am Oct 13, 2024 8:19pm | Edited Oct 14, 2024 3:58am
Quoting navk
{quote} Well, three days done in my Funded SIM account with Tradeify Day 1 : 256 $ Day 2 : 156 $ Day 3 ( Today ) : 132 $. They have consistency rule. 35 % And 10 days trading minimum, then 5 days 100 $ minimum in a 10 day period. Hope this is ok.
Day 4 ( today ) : 212 $

Total profit done until now : 767 $

Consistency : 33.38 %. ( This has now dropped below 35 % which is good )

Done and closed my Tradovate for Sunday / Monday
Intraday only.
  • #43,214
  • Oct 13, 2024 10:47pm Oct 13, 2024 10:47pm
These Bank holidays are easy money days....
NO big players just wait for a big move and then buy/sell to aim for the day open...
MFFU 50kx3 Funded accounts Day - 2 - 1600$ up in total
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
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Extreme gut feeling trader
  • #43,215
  • Oct 14, 2024 12:22am Oct 14, 2024 12:22am
Quoting TrAndy1
Unclear hidden rules it seems from IC Funded response I got now, I do not like that. This is actually my first red flag with this prop. They are not telling us this. "An example of the application of the consistency rule is that traders should avoid trading large lot sizes, such as 40 lots, in the first few days to reach a profit target and then drastically reduce their trade size to 0.1 lots for the remaining days. The trading approach during the challenge phases must be consistent with what would be applicable in the funded stage, without significant...
Any thoughts on Fundyourfx instant funding?
Investment Trading
  • #43,216
  • Oct 14, 2024 1:15am Oct 14, 2024 1:15am
Quoting TrAndy1
{quote} I do not trust them, I heard too many hidden rules from them when it comes to payout. Also the pricing to value is not good. I would not buy from them. E8 pricing is almost same like FTMO they are not cheaper. Now let me calculate that I have no advantage trading on FTMO than on personal broker account. The 200k at FTMO cost €1080, because of 15% profit targets cumulated to 10% max. Drawdown, it is valued e^(1.5)=2.71^(1.5)=4, sp 1080=4320 Euro, which is around 4720 US Dollar. If you then aim for 10% profit on funded account status at FTMO...
You have so much mind & time that you post all these long paragraphs
  • #43,217
  • Oct 14, 2024 4:54am Oct 14, 2024 4:54am
Quoting Takisd
Bought the 5 CFD accounts today. A few others I know were interested in doing similar. There are now 12 systems that can be repeated, some are strictly buy side some are strictly sell side. All of them have some edge but drawdown limits and requirement to pass must be managed adequately. Lets see how quickly I can push these prop accounts with AI, any profit I will send to a few charities as I do not need it and I am too old to find a way to use it. When reviewing rules I have noticed that most of the highly rated props have rules that are hidden...
I look into 1, it is indeed interesting. Put in $500 and have a test drive. No, I won't be sending any profit to charities. i worked within charities to come to this conclusion - if they need a computer, I will buy them that computer or whatever they need BUT not CASH.
  • #43,218
  • Oct 14, 2024 5:17am Oct 14, 2024 5:17am
Quoting Doubla
{quote} Any thoughts on Fundyourfx instant funding?
Yes, there is very good value in their offers from a math point. Second, the complaints within 30 days make only ca. 8% from all reviews, so this is also a good number.
  • #43,219
  • Oct 14, 2024 5:21am Oct 14, 2024 5:21am
Quoting Novazor
{quote} Trandy have u checked if the trading pit is worthy? they have 20 or 25% coupon
Yes in their 2 step CFD challenge offer there is little value if you join from a math view, but the futures challenges provide no added value versus own personal account.
  • #43,220
  • Oct 14, 2024 5:53am Oct 14, 2024 5:53am
Quoting TrAndy1
{quote} Yes, there is very good value in their offers from a math point. Second, the complaints within 30 days make only ca. 8% from all reviews, so this is also a good number.
15% if I saw correctly
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