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  • #42,981
  • Oct 7, 2024 1:19pm Oct 7, 2024 1:19pm
Quoting Capablanca
{quote} Doesn't allow hedging (or at least not in an easy way) and hedging is probably the main problem right now.
You only need to make smaller steps. You can do that with negative RR per trade. So your risk is 4 times bigger or more than your Takeprofit target. That works.
And this is also allowed in Apex Funding, as they say they are allowing up to 4:1 negative Ratio. For all other trailing DD props you can just make 10:1 negative Ratio and you are almost guaranteed to get funded and can make a payout. That way you can also hedge on personal. Why it does work ? Because the Volatility of any underlying is in your favor with a negative Risk Reward Ratio meaning that you have a very, very high winrate above 95% or even higher, depending on your ability.
  • #42,982
  • Oct 7, 2024 1:22pm Oct 7, 2024 1:22pm
The same way you can also bypass a 1% per trade /FTMO. If you risk 1% per trade on funded, you just place another order after your SL has hit, with another 1% SL...
  • #42,983
  • Oct 7, 2024 1:25pm Oct 7, 2024 1:25pm
Quoting Capablanca
{quote} Hantec only has a static DD in challenge phase. In Funded it's trailing. Oanda is trailing. If this is to be an exhaustive broker backed you may consider in adding Sway and Nordic Funder (both also trailing) and FXIFY (static)
Thanks Capa, I might be wrong, but please check again...

Hantec uses trailing DD both in the challenge phase and in funded accounts.

Sway funded is not a broker and is not part of Sway Market.

As for FXIFY, since there’s a note at the bottom of their website stating it is part of FXPig (Broker), it can be included in the list.

The red -10% on Oanda and other brokers means trailing, while green means static.

For Nordic Funder, i will include it in the list.
fooled by randomness in art
Meditation All Time Return: 8.9%
  • #42,984
  • Oct 7, 2024 1:26pm Oct 7, 2024 1:26pm
Quoting Capablanca
{quote} Doesn't allow hedging (or at least not in an easy way) and hedging is probably the main problem right now.
Hedging trailing DD is easy if you have a low trade number target. Getting multiple payouts is the harder part.
  • #42,985
  • Oct 7, 2024 1:29pm Oct 7, 2024 1:29pm
Quoting Capablanca
{quote} Hantec only has a static DD in challenge phase. In Funded it's trailing. Oanda is trailing. If this is to be an exhaustive broker backed you may consider in adding Sway and Nordic Funder (both also trailing) and FXIFY (static)
No it is not trailing in Hantec. But when you withdraw your drawdown will be removed.
For example if you have 100K account and you make 1K profit and withdraw your drawdown threshold will become 100K.
But when you dont remove profits you can have drawdown till 90K.
They are happy as long as you dont withdraw profits.
  • #42,986
  • Oct 7, 2024 1:30pm Oct 7, 2024 1:30pm
Quoting Capablanca
{quote} Hantec only has a static DD in challenge phase. In Funded it's trailing. Oanda is trailing. If this is to be an exhaustive broker backed you may consider in adding Sway and Nordic Funder (both also trailing) and FXIFY (static)
Live Trailing DD is ca. 2 times harder than static and EOD Trailing is still around 1.5 times harder than static. So any challenge fee you can double on live trailing in your head compared to any challenge with static drawdown only. Also you can compare 2 times live trailing against 1.5 times the fee on EOD trailing as prop comparison, FYI.
  • #42,987
  • Oct 7, 2024 1:32pm Oct 7, 2024 1:32pm
Quoting Takisd
{quote} Hedging trailing DD is easy if you have a low trade number target. Getting multiple payouts is the harder part.
Yes, that is the problem. Because multiple payouts are harder to achieve on trailing DD challenges especially when funded, one can easily be forced to gamble more, to achieve higher payouts as compensation. Because the longterm funded account is much harder to maintain on trailing. That would be against the prop firm motivation.
So for the prop firm it has two sides. If the funded payouts are not limited especially on the first few payouts, this can have an opposite effect what the prop firm wants.
  • #42,988
  • Oct 7, 2024 1:35pm Oct 7, 2024 1:35pm
Quoting Takisd
{quote} Hedging trailing DD is easy if you have a low trade number target. Getting multiple payouts is the harder part.
Why you want multiple payouts . Futures funding are meant for one time use they are happy you are happy and we love happy world.
  • #42,989
  • Edited 6:23pm Oct 7, 2024 2:03pm | Edited 6:23pm
Quoting TrAndy1
{quote} Yes, that is the problem. Because multiple payouts are harder to achieve on trailing DD challenges especially when funded, one can easily be forced to gamble more, to achieve higher payouts as compensation. Because the longterm funded account is much harder to maintain on trailing. That would be against the prop firm motivation. So for the prop firm it has two sides. If the funded payouts are not limited especially on the first few payouts, this can have an opposite effect what the prop firm wants.
Yes. It is called Zugswang.
fooled by randomness in art
Meditation All Time Return: 8.9%
  • #42,990
  • Oct 7, 2024 2:26pm Oct 7, 2024 2:26pm
Quoting RoelsMajor
{quote} Thanks Capa, I might be wrong, but please check again... Hantec uses trailing DD both in the challenge phase and in funded accounts. Sway funded is not a broker and is not part of Sway Market. As for FXIFY, since there’s a note at the bottom of their website stating it is part of FXPig (Broker), it can be included in the list. The red -10% on Oanda and other brokers means trailing, while green means static. For Nordic Funder, i will include it in the list.
In theory there's also Lux (as they opened the broker section recently) and Funded Prop BX (powered by Baxia Markets). DYOR
  • #42,991
  • Oct 7, 2024 2:27pm Oct 7, 2024 2:27pm
FXIFY new sign ups will have static daily DD as ususal but not any more 5 % of account equity, only 4 % with immediate effect for all new purchases
Intraday only.
  • #42,992
  • Oct 7, 2024 2:34pm Oct 7, 2024 2:34pm
Quoting sampat
{quote} Why you want multiple payouts . Futures funding are meant for one time use they are happy you are happy and we love happy world.
The real benefit of hedging is the profit split after you are refunded.
  • #42,993
  • Oct 7, 2024 2:41pm Oct 7, 2024 2:41pm
Quoting Takisd
{quote} The real benefit of hedging is the profit split after you are refunded.
Which makes hedging more profitable because in futures you can't withdraw threshold. Hedge two accounts with drawdown threshold one will get payout.
Again main point is hedging is costly and there is no payout guarantee which makes hedging almost useless.
  • #42,994
  • Oct 7, 2024 3:18pm Oct 7, 2024 3:18pm
just got a email saying takeprofit traders nofee40 is back again.....

just in case some might be interested......h
to trade and code, keep both simple... no call to impress....h
  • #42,995
  • Oct 7, 2024 4:02pm Oct 7, 2024 4:02pm
If one fears to get a requested and hard earned payout by the hedging strat with his personl broker account, then you only need to switch the sides. Now you trade your personal account for profit and hedge with your challenge account. In case you loose you made a profit on challenge and got funded and then got payout (request). In that more rare cases you end up with maybe no payout but all the ways before you end up with a nice profit on your personal account. Just do the "opposite".
  • #42,996
  • Oct 7, 2024 4:04pm Oct 7, 2024 4:04pm
It is basically the exact same calculation but the trades are just opposite. While you try to be profitable on a challenge, YOU NOW TRY TO BE PROFITABLE on PERSONAL.
  • #42,997
  • Oct 7, 2024 4:05pm Oct 7, 2024 4:05pm
There is also some other options in between of course, if you want to split risk between personal and challenge account. You can find your middle way too IF YOU WANT.
So for example you can calculate it that way that you get same amount on funded as payout request as profit on personal account. So if you are just gambling it does not matter if you loose on funded or win, as you will get same amount in any case. Of course is payout denied then you need to have some more personal profits at that stage. But in the end if you just flip the coin here is another sure way to get to your guaranteed profits even the payout requests got denied for whatever reason.
Of course if you focus only on personal and just try to hedge loosing trades as winners by accident on challenges, then you can maximize that if payouts get denied often. But in that case you need to have some confidence you are on the right side of your trades. It all depends how you are doing it, there are more than just 1 way.
  • #42,998
  • Oct 7, 2024 4:24pm Oct 7, 2024 4:24pm
I do not want you to have no fun discovering all yourself by telling you all details upfront. You only need to bit number crunch yourself. If you need help just use an excel sheet. Have fun with it. But I can tell you there is mathematical way that when you get your payout denied you still can end up not loosing a penny. That is all I say. FYI
  • #42,999
  • Oct 7, 2024 6:35pm Oct 7, 2024 6:35pm
Quoting failinforex
I thought those who cannot trade will conduct courses. But it looks like those who cannot trade will continue their search for the besttest than best prop firm.
Ok, now the pro trader is teaching about hedging, amazing. Also have a secret formula -
Quoting TrAndy1
. . .. But I can tell you there is mathematical way that when you get your payout denied you still can end up not loosing a penny. That is all I say. FYI
Also a secret broker that offer no margin.

Come, come demonstrate to us via a challenge any firms you like.
  • #43,000
  • Edited 7:33pm Oct 7, 2024 7:17pm | Edited 7:33pm
Quoting failinforex
{quote} Ok, now the pro trader is teaching about hedging, amazing. Also have a secret formula - {quote} Also a secret broker that offer no margin. Come, come demonstrate to us via a challenge any firms you like.
I will tell you the secret , my friend , but keep it for you …

in advanced mathematics , a negative value multiplied with another negative value , becomes a positive value

so multiply the loss , for example -1000 with -1 then it becomes +1000 and you have magically turned a loss into profit

it is not even a secret formula , just a secret number………… “-1”

also remember why -1 is so special and makes this trick possible
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