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  • #42,721
  • Sep 30, 2024 10:05am Sep 30, 2024 10:05am
Quoting Cryptosurf
{quote} No kidding. Anyone who’s been paying attention knows, mt4 has always been completely incompatible with any future feeds. There also zero chances that they’ll ever get MT5 as well.
Absolutely no shot.....this guy becoming the clown of the futures props.......over promise and under deliver........who does he think he is? Angelo? Khaled?
  • #42,722
  • Sep 30, 2024 10:59am Sep 30, 2024 10:59am
Quoting pipmaster77
{quote} Absolutely no shot.....this guy becoming the clown of the futures props.......over promise and under deliver........who does he think he is? Angelo? Khaled?
Much like the recent chap thinking he can run a book firm and dole out 100% splits…
Trade with confidence, trade without fear.
  • #42,723
  • Sep 30, 2024 11:09am Sep 30, 2024 11:09am
Quoting Cryptosurf
{quote} No kidding. Anyone who’s been paying attention knows, mt4 has always been completely incompatible with any future feeds. There also zero chances that they’ll ever get MT5 as well.
You mean that only MT5 is able to do that ?
  • #42,724
  • Sep 30, 2024 11:15am Sep 30, 2024 11:15am
Quoting Capablanca
{quote} You mean that only MT5 is able to do that ?
You can do futures on mt4, but it is clunky and lacking any historical data. No point to use mt4 for futures.
  • #42,725
  • Sep 30, 2024 12:16pm Sep 30, 2024 12:16pm
Quoting pipmaster77
{quote} Same reason I will not use Topstep with their new TopX or whatever platform......I know everyone is sim (atleast initially), but the no commission just screams fake feed, plus their own platform plus rumor has it they are not actually futures contracts but CFDs. I want good 'ole fashion rithmic on quantower and yes I want to pay commission.
Have you tried LEvel 2 market data is it worth it ???
Extreme gut feeling trader
  • #42,726
  • Sep 30, 2024 12:28pm Sep 30, 2024 12:28pm
Quoting Capablanca
{quote} You mean that only MT5 is able to do that ?
Yes, only MT5 and only CQG from what i was told a few years ago.
Trade with confidence, trade without fear.
  • #42,727
  • Sep 30, 2024 12:37pm Sep 30, 2024 12:37pm
Quoting Cryptosurf
{quote} Yes, only MT5 and only CQG from what i was told a few years ago.
Ok, so that's exactly what AMP offers.
  • #42,728
  • Sep 30, 2024 12:46pm Sep 30, 2024 12:46pm
Quoting Capablanca
{quote} Ok, so that's exactly what AMP offers.
Theres a few other low cost firms like AMP that offer it. Edgeclear and Stage5 if i recall.
Trade with confidence, trade without fear.
  • #42,729
  • Sep 30, 2024 1:44pm Sep 30, 2024 1:44pm
Quoting Capablanca
Please don't me send private messages, specially if you're not a regular in this thread. If you want to know what the best firms are, ask here. There are plenty of people to help, me included, with different views. I don't reply to private message to people who barely contributed to this thread.
I get a lot of those messages too. They usually sound like this:

"Can you take time out of your day to spoon feed me answers that are already in the thread because I'm too selfish and lazy to do the research?"
Pride always comes before destruction.... -Proverbs 16:18
  • #42,730
  • Sep 30, 2024 2:01pm Sep 30, 2024 2:01pm
Quoting CableJ
FTT is still in 3 week payout delay hell.... but they recently migrated to Rise, JPM Chase & their own rithmic private servers, they purchased Fasttracktrading.com and supposedly credit card payments are coming this week. That being said... Tradovate was coming soon next week for the last 3 months.
you gotta love the billing terms for credit cards

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  • #42,731
  • Sep 30, 2024 2:35pm Sep 30, 2024 2:35pm
Quoting Stoneyrocks
{quote} you gotta love the billing terms for credit cards {image}
also 10% max discount on credit card purchases
  • #42,732
  • Sep 30, 2024 2:36pm Sep 30, 2024 2:36pm
Quoting Stoneyrocks
{quote} you gotta love the billing terms for credit cards {image}
Do you think that is going to stop chargebacks .
I can say I am not satisfied with the service or under deliver service or make up things.
Using credit cards customer is the king no matter what vendor does.
  • #42,733
  • Sep 30, 2024 2:49pm Sep 30, 2024 2:49pm
Quoting Cryptosurf
{quote} Much like the recent chap thinking he can run a book firm and dole out 100% splits…
Watch and learn young Padawan. I never thought I would see the day that retail traders would be cool with getting a demo account as a “funded” account. The best way to get me to do something is to say it can’t be done.

and to whoever says they want to pay commission because zero commission is a a scam - you are right with a prop shop but not with us.

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Have a listen to this recent podcast where I call out the entire prop firm space and we talk about how we are able to offer zero commission on zero spreads.

https://podcasts.apple.com/au/podcas...=1000671292980

The content in this you won’t find elsewhere cause 99% of brokers won’t even be able to talk about this stuff. How do I know? Because we give them their pricing.

I didn’t come into this thread to sell Afterprime but some of you guys have been around here a long time and you are so hoodwinked by this industry that I gotta knock some sense into you

I’m looking for 5-10 people max to help me create a prop solution that you say can’t be done, but I will make it happen.

Please DM me, I’ve already got 4 people so there’s 1-6 spots left and then I’ll STFU and leave you all alone until it’s ready.
  • #42,734
  • Sep 30, 2024 3:16pm Sep 30, 2024 3:16pm
Quoting Jemook
{quote} Watch and learn young Padawan. I never thought I would see the day that retail traders would be cool with getting a demo account as a “funded” account. The best way to get me to do something is to say it can’t be done. and to whoever says they want to pay commission because zero commission is a a scam - you are right with a prop shop but not with us. {image} Have a listen to this recent podcast where I call out the entire prop firm space and we talk about how we are able to offer zero commission on zero spreads. https://podcasts.apple.com/au/podcas...=1000671292980...
So, before I do a deep dive with you.......will you be able to provide services to the USA? I was funded close to 1 million (of course really 100K because only DD counts) with 4 firms who are all now either shut down by regulators, bankrupt or pulled Meta and gave me Match Trader, which sucks.
I now trade with the futures props and am with Darwinex, of course in addition to a personal futures account.
I am the guy that wants to pay commission and my question to any "broker" with zero spreads and zero commission claiming there is no conflict of interest (holding the other side)........how are you making money?
A broker, by defintion, earns a fee or commssion by aligning buyers with sellers, 99% of forex "brokers" are not actually brokers. Futures "brokers" are brokers as you can see your order hit the exchange and they take a commission for doing so.
  • #42,735
  • Sep 30, 2024 3:24pm Sep 30, 2024 3:24pm
Quoting pipmaster77
{quote} So, before I do a deep dive with you.......will you be able to provide services to the USA? I was funded close to 1 million (of course really 100K because only DD counts) with 4 firms who are all now either shut down by regulators, bankrupt or pulled Meta and gave me Match Trader, which sucks. I now trade with the futures props and am with Darwinex, of course in addition to a personal futures account. I am the guy that wants to pay commission and my question to any "broker" with zero spreads and zero commission claiming there is no conflict...
It’s all explained in this podcast:

Apple:
https://podcasts.apple.com/au/podcas...=1000671292980

Spotify:
https://open.spotify.com/episode/23U...QhimQi0qeoNUFA

have a listen for half an hour and let me know if any questions.

As for US clients, unfortunately not. Maybe different for prop but haven’t looked into it.
  • #42,736
  • Sep 30, 2024 4:28pm Sep 30, 2024 4:28pm
Quoting Jemook
help me create a prop solution that you say can’t be done, but I will make it happen.
-I suspect that if you are going for an 'everyone-wins' solution, then you will likely have to go more traditional, with a higher barrier-to-entry and stricter requirements etc.. Probably, trading data can be more useful if you have more of it, but I cannot really speak about that. Certainly, brokers can survive more easily because they are not providing the trading capital.

If you have no good way to weed out bad traders, then you will always be reliant on fees (or outside capital) to support your business. You can establish additional revenue streams to offset your costs, which I have always advocated props do anyway, but I do not know of any that have been overly successful with that.
  • #42,737
  • Sep 30, 2024 4:49pm Sep 30, 2024 4:49pm
Quoting Nsak3y
{quote}-I suspect that if you are going for an 'everyone-wins' solution, then you will likely have to go more traditional, with a higher barrier-to-entry and stricter requirements etc.. Probably, trading data can be more useful if you have more of it, but I cannot really speak about that. Certainly, brokers can survive more easily because they are not providing the trading capital. If you have no good way to weed out bad traders, then you will always be reliant on fees (or outside capital) to support your business. You can establish additional revenue...
Thanks! I believe you are correct in all you say. What additional revenue streams would you have in mind?
  • #42,738
  • Sep 30, 2024 5:32pm Sep 30, 2024 5:32pm
Quoting pipmaster77
{quote} So, before I do a deep dive with you.......will you be able to provide services to the USA? I was funded close to 1 million (of course really 100K because only DD counts) with 4 firms who are all now either shut down by regulators, bankrupt or pulled Meta and gave me Match Trader, which sucks. I now trade with the futures props and am with Darwinex, of course in addition to a personal futures account. I am the guy that wants to pay commission and my question to any "broker" with zero spreads and zero commission claiming there is no conflict...
Don't waste your breath, clearly his delusion is greater then his stupidity.
Trade with confidence, trade without fear.
  • #42,739
  • Sep 30, 2024 5:54pm Sep 30, 2024 5:54pm
Quoting montygoldy
{quote} Have you tried LEvel 2 market data is it worth it ???
Have not. My trading does not require it.
  • #42,740
  • Edited 7:16pm Sep 30, 2024 6:21pm | Edited 7:16pm
Quoting Jemook
Thanks! I believe you are correct in all you say. What additional revenue streams would you have in mind?
-I have mentioned some things in the past, but my memory is failing with age. I think, with an everyone-wins approach, that education should serve as a foundational cornerstone. Education materials, courses, training/consulting and VIP memberships could work. I hate internet marketing, but it is probably a must here.

Having special-guest speakers, authors, trading specialists/account managers, online and offline seminars, masterclasses, multi-day training and networking events at hotels and cruises etc. can all be utilized to bring in more revenue (and traders). Special, non-trade-related consulting can be done, targeting other firms and businesses. Many traders eventually invest in other things, so you could bring in special speakers for everything from real estate investing, tax avoidance/elimination, dividend/stock investing, traveling/citizenship et al.. Merchandise of all types can be offered. If you can build a brand, then you can do more with it, probably.

In terms of marketing, you can have an army of affiliate marketers working for you, in exchange for 'points' that can be used for everything from merch to training/consulting, accounts, online events etc.. There are many lower-income traders that cannot afford to buy an account, but could write articles or work as part-time customer support for the company in exchange for points. This could also help to reduce operating costs, since you would not have to pay them using real currency. Points could also be used to incentivize traders to share their results, do interviews, leave honest reviews, participate in online discussion or engage on your social media pages etc.. Some of this stuff can be frowned upon, but it can work if you allow people to be honest and you actually push for that.

Incorporating cryptocurrency could work. If you created your own alt-coin, you could create a staking program that also rewarded traders with points. As the valuation of your coin appreciates over time, it could be used as an insurance fund for the firm while also helping traders to feel more secure. For traders that purchase their accounts/products/memberships/events etc. with your alt-coin, could receive a small discount of some sort. You could eventually have your own crypto card that could be used for day-to-day purchases, which would further-incentivize purchasers and holders, while bringing in additional revenue for the firm in the way of processing/card fees and the like.

Most of these prop firms are being operated by young, inexperienced people, so they often end up relying on cookie-cutter solutions and never really dare to think outside of the box. Many traders are struggling, with no real guidance (the same could probably be said for remote props). If you had a good way to build traders up and eventually move them to a live account, then any assistance that you can offer them could be seen as an investment in not only your traders, but in the business itself.

Just brainstorming ideas here. Not everything mentioned here may be possible (or even legal), or even good, but I believe that any non-traditional prop firm should have other revenue streams in order to ensure longevity. Doing so could also allow for the conflicts of interests that separate traders and firms to be a thing of the past, allowing for a truly 'everyone wins' scenario.

I also believe that profit caps are a must for any trader that is trading on an simulated account. Not having caps is just foolish, in my opinion. Caps do not need to be unreasonable. 20k to 40k/month should be enough for anyone that is lacking capital.
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