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  • #41,781
  • Edited 3:51am Sep 6, 2024 12:55am | Edited 3:51am
Quoting 21vs7
{quote} hey Cap, each on their own, right. I thought you are similar to me; to be under the radar on max 5-7k payouts? (2x average payout).. Why would one settle with low payouts with a grim future you are proposing? (still, i do agree on the risks) Its hard to pass a challenge and then just to fuck it up with hardcore bets for my liking.
I understand what you say. To me there is 2 risks:
1. Props going bankrupt
2. Props banning people
The first we don't know who they will be or when that will happen. We don't control it.
The second we can control a bit.

We have 2 possible strategies. Either we go for the killing, making 25K in a single payout and get banned (and eventually having the payout denied for whatever shady rule they invent) or we chose to try to get 10 payout of 2.5K and get those same 25K.

I believe they won't analyze so much our full history and even if they do they'll be more afraid of denying a 2.5K payout. And those 25K payouts can even be in several challenges because they won't probably ban us even if we already took 7K or 10K or 12K in some past challenge and go for some more.

As an example, I had about 20 payouts in The Funded Trader, in more than 2 years, and even got one account scaled, despite they were inventing reasons to deny payouts right and left. Never had a single problem until they went bust and is still my single most profitable prop. Same for TFF, TPT (the prop trading) and Funding Talent.

You mentioned 5K to 7K payout. I don't know. I try to never go above 5K but I wish I knew what's the "right" payout figure to be under the radar. Maybe I'm leaving money at the table. Thanks for your post. It's good when we're talking only about props in this topic.
  • #41,782
  • Sep 6, 2024 12:56am Sep 6, 2024 12:56am
Quoting OutThere
Anyone has run a demo with a broker alongside a demo with FTMO to compare the two? I have done it and in the other broker demo, if I am up say 1K, I am down 6K in FTMO's. Not very encouraging.
Uau, this is a pretty heavy difference. What instrument is that and what aprox volume (lots) ?
  • #41,783
  • Sep 6, 2024 12:57am Sep 6, 2024 12:57am
25 won, 1 lost.

96 % wiining rate.

Asia, done.

Going to sleep.
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Intraday only.
  • #41,784
  • Sep 6, 2024 1:14am Sep 6, 2024 1:14am
Quoting navk
25 won, 1 lost. 96 % wiining rate. Asia, done. Going to sleep. {image}
Made 100 trades today. Winning % 100. Made 13,98 USD profit. Now going to sleep and gonna repeat this tomorrow and tell everyone altough nobody is interested.

I must the greates trader of all time (at least as long I start losing). Then I am going to post nothing or open a new account and post that. I am wondering if anybody else is able to sleep because I am so great!
  • #41,785
  • Sep 6, 2024 1:59am Sep 6, 2024 1:59am
Quoting OutThere
Anyone has run a demo with a broker alongside a demo with FTMO to compare the two? I have done it and in the other broker demo, if I am up say 1K, I am down 6K in FTMO's. Not very encouraging.
Yep and also live. I get more slippage and bad fills with other brokers than I do with FTMO interestingly... One of them sometimes splits my deal size even though it is not more than 1 lot sometimes

As to FTMO increasing spread I've no concerns, often seeing it go within 0.1 pip to my stop without widening during normal market times. Currently at 0.2 /0.3 on EU this morning UK time.
  • #41,786
  • Sep 6, 2024 3:03am Sep 6, 2024 3:03am
Quoting Capablanca
{quote} I understand what you say. To me there is 2 risks: 1. Props going bankrupt 2. Props banning people The first we don't know who they will be or when that will happen. We don't control it. The second we can control a bit. We have 2 possible strategies. Either we go for the killing, making 25K in a single payout and get banned (and eventually having the payout denied for whatever shady rule they invent) or we chose to try to get 10 payout of 2.5K and get those same 25K. I believe they won't analyze so much our full history and even if they...
thank you for the comment.

I agree with everything. Noted reasoning and experiance.

Additionally, I agree on your point on talks concentraded on prop experiance and refraining on getting sucked into not relevant chitchat. Self criticism is welcomed on any levels.

Wish best and ill update if something seems relevant.
  • #41,787
  • Sep 6, 2024 5:42am Sep 6, 2024 5:42am
Quoting Fagin
{quote} Yep and also live. I get more slippage and bad fills with other brokers than I do with FTMO interestingly... One of them sometimes splits my deal size even though it is not more than 1 lot sometimes As to FTMO increasing spread I've no concerns, often seeing it go within 0.1 pip to my stop without widening during normal market times. Currently at 0.2 /0.3 on EU this morning UK time.
ok, my observation is not scientific or even started withwanting to compare the 2 demos. However, once both demos running and doing their thing for a few days, each day's trades are different beyween the 2 demos. It's always in fsvor of loss in ftmo account. I don't feel like really getting into finding causes or getting into too much detail cause it dawned on me that the word "simulation" has found a new meaning.
I'm seeing ftmo and others have really embraced this word and emphasizing it with vigor. Anyone remember those days that they promissed "real money" if you pass? Back then, it was reasonable to compare their demo to real trading cause supposed to be real. Now with "simulation" being accepted since mff, they are happily using it. Now comes the question. What is 'simulation'? Is there only one simulation? Or many? Does anyone ask them for the algo of the simulation or the layers of it? It's simulation for crying outloud. Who cares? Everyone does simulation different.
So, this simulation is basically a sandbox built on top of the simulation that is called demo trading.
It's just not trading. It's not trading the market.
It'd be like if you learned all about probabilities and then went to a casino and expected text book outcome but ignoring that the casino probability is simulated . At least it's known how (regulated) but prop sim who knows and cares?

ok, so this has been said all before..bla bla bla. whatever.

Point is that the proper way of thinking shouldn't be how I beat the market and become successful in prop trading. It is how to figure out the prop's system and as you guys,say, milk the prop It' s not about milking the market, it's milking the sabdbox.
  • #41,788
  • Sep 6, 2024 5:46am Sep 6, 2024 5:46am
Quoting Capablanca
{quote} Uau, this is a pretty heavy difference. What instrument is that and what aprox volume (lots) ?
I wasn't leveling a 'gotcha' move on ftmo. I was just asking if anyone else has notice such a thing.
I guess,everyone is happy with their simulation trading then.
  • #41,789
  • Sep 6, 2024 7:27am Sep 6, 2024 7:27am
Quoting OutThere
{quote} I wasn't leveling a 'gotcha' move on ftmo. I was just asking if anyone else has notice such a thing. I guess,everyone is happy with their simulation trading then.
I've never experience any significant slippage in the pairs I trade (EURUSD and GBPUSD) in any prop. But, again, I trade up to 10 lots in challenges and up to 5 in funded and never in news. I get here and there 0.1, 0.2, 0.3 if that much, but nothing significant.

So, to me, personally, slippage is not an issue at all in props.

And I think we are now well past the "simulation" discussion. I think it's more that evident that we're playing a trading videogame.
  • #41,790
  • Sep 6, 2024 8:05am Sep 6, 2024 8:05am
BS Move

Takes me out and heads up
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  • #41,791
  • Sep 6, 2024 9:14am Sep 6, 2024 9:14am
Quoting pipmaster77
{quote} You;Hi, is this the FBI? FBI:Yes. You:I'd like to report a person who is a threat to the prop firm hub over at forex factory FBI;
LMAO, sounds like a line from the Seinfeld fame.
  • #41,792
  • Sep 6, 2024 10:55am Sep 6, 2024 10:55am
Some FAST TRACK TRADING drama. Everyone get your pop corns ready
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Extreme gut feeling trader
  • #41,793
  • Sep 6, 2024 3:55pm Sep 6, 2024 3:55pm
Quoting RiskFighter
So here you are. Tom Hougaard - the bravest trader in the world. He just lost 18.000 £. In a live transmission. For everybody to watch. Showing good and bad dessissions. In the matter fact the very last trade is awfull. I do not know of anybody doing that. Showing everything live. Do you? And he does it on a daily basis. Hiding nothing. Note! This is NOT Prop money. It is NOT demo money. It is real money and it is his own money. Is that a huge loss? No sir, he might profit the double tomorrow. He once profitted 200.000£ on a single day when National...
And now his biggest livestream wins ever

https://www.youtube.com/live/4ztnkkp...HW9-7uL&t=2130

https://www.youtube.com/live/a-PULYU...pEpflVsDUkmhlu

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It takes a lot for me to IGNORE you, but you can try.
  • #41,794
  • Sep 6, 2024 5:31pm Sep 6, 2024 5:31pm
Quoting OutThere
{quote} ok, my observation is not scientific or even started withwanting to compare the 2 demos. However, once both demos running and doing their thing for a few days, each day's trades are different beyween the 2 demos. It's always in fsvor of loss in ftmo account. I don't feel like really getting into finding causes or getting into too much detail cause it dawned on me that the word "simulation" has found a new meaning. I'm seeing ftmo and others have really embraced this word and emphasizing it with vigor. Anyone remember those days that they...
Hmm I've lost the thread a bit on this one. Leaving the magic gummy bears aside for a moment I think you are giving brokers far too much credit when providing a platform to trade your real money with. You think this isn't also simulation?

In our retail world of trading we are just prey items. Make peace with it because it's never going to change, prop or private. In poker where there is no edge for the house they take a rake. Same thing.

If your Strat is "spread sensitive" like you've admitted it's very likely somebody much smarter than you is already taking your money.

Trade safe.
  • #41,795
  • Sep 6, 2024 5:50pm Sep 6, 2024 5:50pm
Quoting OutThere
{quote} I wasn't leveling a 'gotcha' move on ftmo. I was just asking if anyone else has notice such a thing. I guess,everyone is happy with their simulation trading then.
Excellent points in your last responses. I concur there is more thinking to it and that the matter is sensitive.

Trading personal, several props and darwin - I noticed rollover spreads are very much different. I mainly play FX. Rollover spread in several instances on darwin account stopped me while props have not. This is what im seeing in last cca 6 weeks (added darwin). Rollover spreads are ALWAYS my nigthmare.

Secondly, i am also a low "lot taker"....-0.7-3.5 lost equivalent dependend on atr and pairs characteristics. Today for example, I was taken out on ftmo 2 times while on alpha and ascend was not...was trade which was traded before the news, GJ sells, and ftmo stopped me out, others have not. Still, my experiance in the past are contractidory of the latest (ftmo let mi live, and others stopped me out)....so, it is relatively random(it seems).
While I risk cca 1H atr high of last x bars...I get different execution all over the place...so, when market is tight, some orders are stopped, some are let alive. But, we are talking really in terms of decimals, which I admit for now as normal.
  • #41,796
  • Sep 6, 2024 6:44pm Sep 6, 2024 6:44pm
Quoting Fagin
{quote} Hmm I've lost the thread a bit on this one. Leaving the magic gummy bears aside for a moment I think you are giving brokers far too much credit when providing a platform to trade your real money with. You think this isn't also simulation? In our retail world of trading we are just prey items. Make peace with it because it's never going to change, prop or private. In poker where there is no edge for the house they take a rake. Same thing. If your Strat is "spread sensitive" like you've admitted it's very likely somebody much smarter than...
Well, true but I can trust my broker 1000% more than these dudes and side by side comparison would prove that.
But I am not really motivated as I don't really want a prop.
This was just so I can say to myself That I did take their 14 day demo trading offer.

The particular ea I used might have been sensitive to spreads with I have a few kilos of ea's at my disposal with various teeth length.

But yes, we are similar to those pods in Metrix for the owners of the system.
  • #41,797
  • Sep 6, 2024 8:34pm Sep 6, 2024 8:34pm
Quoting Erebus
{quote} And now his biggest livestream wins ever https://www.youtube.com/live/4ztnkkp...HW9-7uL&t=2130 https://www.youtube.com/live/a-PULYU...pEpflVsDUkmhlu {image} {image}
Is that a 200 lot size order I see on Tom's screen?
  • #41,798
  • Sep 6, 2024 9:45pm Sep 6, 2024 9:45pm
Keeping it transparent.... 1 week back i was on winning streak of 22+ days.... Now for last week can't get a day end with profit (I mean i make some profit then try to swing for daily profit goal then losers start showing up then trying to recoup the loss n more losses happen).... Thats the trading in nutshell.....

As a trader we should know when to take a step back. As i mentioned before i know, i am going through a rough patch and my alpha mindset needs some confidence to build to get back in the groove.....

So i have decided for this month i am not going to purchase any EVALS>...... Only going to work on current 3x150k myfundedfutures account. Try to get them back in good shape. As @pip suggested reduce risk and aim for lower numbers thats what i am going to do. Slowly trying to recover if i somehow lose these accounts then only gonna purchase 1 evals at time and try to build my confidence before going beserk.......

Right now previous payouts are messing with my mindset and not taking funded accounts seriously (pretty much yolo'ing). So to tackle i have cleared my journal. Will be starting fresh and have a goal of 100k payouts by the end 2024.... Lets f@@king go...... Will be avoiding daily PnL posts as not gonna aim for big numbers so it will be a overkill.... But will be posting all the PAyouts till Decemeber.

CURRENTLY MFFF IS MY PRIMARY PROP FIRM 1.) PAYOUTS ARE FAST 2.) EOD DRAWDOWN 3.) 5 winning days can request payout 4.) Cheaper than other firms as no activation fees.

MFFF - Accounts were 1300$ up for the day when i decided to aim for 2k and then its a slippery slope went deep and hit the DLL>>........Btw was using 3mini's short only today on NQ but my stop losses were so tight that it hit SL first before dropping (20 points sl)........ 1300$ worth of drawdown left will be aiming 300-400 a day conservatively.......
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Extreme gut feeling trader
  • #41,799
  • Sep 6, 2024 10:34pm Sep 6, 2024 10:34pm
Quoting montygoldy
Keeping it transparent.... 1 week back i was on winning streak of 22+ days.... Now for last week can't get a day end with profit (I mean i make some profit then try to swing for daily profit goal then losers start showing up then trying to recoup the loss n more losses happen).... Thats the trading in nutshell..... As a trader we should know when to take a step back. As i mentioned before i know, i am going through a rough patch and my alpha mindset needs some confidence to build to get back in the...
jr , just a dumb azz kid so take it however , havent watched close , but do check here and there , and no not vicarously living thru anything ,I was taught a bit different than the likes of doing such , markets haven't changed , so what has , the whole alpha thing is a chuckle , why is there times one "bets" the farm and there is times one dosent , which comes around to the "betting" part , one is "betting" maybe instead of "learning", as a "trader" maybe the whole sh=t show is given way more credit than it deserves , piped up out of nowhere it may seem , its just buying or selling , nothing more , anyway you will get your "groove" back aint no big thing Mr M, no big whoop , you got this
effort and the time put in in ones own account tho with some "learning , eeeh things one would think would mean more by now , not easy for anyone , till one makes it easy for themselves tho ,
  • #41,800
  • Sep 6, 2024 10:57pm Sep 6, 2024 10:57pm
Everybody is really good at dishing out this advice or a rephrased variety of it:

"If you're gonna play the game, boy
You gotta learn to play it right

You've got to know when to hold 'em
Know when to fold 'em
Know when to walk away
And know when to run


It's like saying you gotta know when to buy and when to sell.

Pretty easy right? And You gotta KNOW. What's wrong with you all? Why don't you'll know ?
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