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  • #38,221
  • Jun 25, 2024 3:30pm Jun 25, 2024 3:30pm
Darwinex is similar to a traditional non remote prop model..... until you show up with a 1-3 year near top of leader board trade history/ranking (annual returns >2x drawdowns)... you will be pretty much relegated to making peanuts. That being said, it's a way more stable and reliable business model. On the CFD side of the business, they are the only one I would bet would still be around in 5 years.
  • #38,222
  • Jun 25, 2024 3:39pm Jun 25, 2024 3:39pm
I suppose that I should not be commenting in this, since I have not actually looked at their website, but I assume that if Darwinex is allocating real investor capital, then they must have found a way of circumventing series exams, registration and licensing requirements for traders.
  • #38,223
  • Jun 25, 2024 4:23pm Jun 25, 2024 4:23pm
Quoting Nsak3y
I suppose that I should not be commenting in this, since I have not actually looked at their website, but I assume that if Darwinex is allocating real investor capital, then they must have found a way of circumventing series exams, registration and licensing requirements for traders.
Yes, all regulation is customer facing. I posted a video from the CEO a while back. Let me track that down.
  • #38,224
  • Jun 25, 2024 4:24pm Jun 25, 2024 4:24pm
Quoting pipmaster77
{quote} I do know that everything they have that is investor facing is heavily regulated. The CEO has a great interview on this. The broker is heavily regulated, their hedge fund is heavily regulated.....we are just signal providers. This is actual the real deal of what all of the prop firms we traded with were claiming to be. Hence, the 15% performance fee...they get 20%, which is global standard and then split 75/25 with us. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TiSeiIEzWew
Here you go
  • #38,225
  • Jun 25, 2024 4:26pm Jun 25, 2024 4:26pm
Quoting pipmaster77
{quote} I don't buy it.......$38/mo vs. the $500 a pop the "prop" firms were collecting......I can try darwinex for a year, certainly I'll figure it out by then, and still pay less than 1 challenge on the "prop" model. Not to mention before it was unlimited, we were required to flip an account in 30 days.
I would argue its more likely to get a payout from the retail scam props than darwinex. The consistency factor alone will bring the success rate under 1%. There will always be outliers but a subscription model its obnoxious.
  • #38,226
  • Jun 25, 2024 5:09pm Jun 25, 2024 5:09pm
Quoting pipmaster77
Yes, all regulation is customer facing.
-Thanks. I assume that US traders that qualify will need to satisfy certain regulatory requirements, then.
  • #38,227
  • Jun 25, 2024 5:34pm Jun 25, 2024 5:34pm
Quoting montygoldy
{quote} Thought why not try more. Bought 5 more...... 1. I have 50kx10 in review for payout if approved then there will 600$ drawdown left in them. So best is to blow them n replace with 150k passed ones {image}
Monty, is this going to be your first payout? I am curious to see how long the process takes.
Drawdown is more important than Account Size !
  • #38,228
  • Jun 25, 2024 6:34pm Jun 25, 2024 6:34pm
Quoting Nsak3y
{quote}-Thanks. I assume that US traders that qualify will need to satisfy certain regulatory requirements, then.
Just signal providers. Whatever regulation is required for investors is investor facing. Not sure of the exact workings, but he explains it to my satisfaction in the video.
  • #38,229
  • Jun 25, 2024 7:10pm Jun 25, 2024 7:10pm
Quoting pipmaster77
{quote} First couple of trades were 2 lots, then bumped to 5 lots, but I trade mostly euraud and gbpaud, so more like 3.5 lots when adjusted to USD. 1 position at a time, I believe twice I had 2 trades open. Truly, I'm just trying to get through the 15 days and then I believe the real "work" starts.
And what's your risk factor at in the lower left? Still 1.0 or has it changed?
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Pride always comes before destruction.... -Proverbs 16:18
  • #38,230
  • Jun 25, 2024 7:12pm Jun 25, 2024 7:12pm
Quoting pipmaster77
{quote} I don't buy it.......$38/mo vs. the $500 a pop the "prop" firms were collecting......I can try darwinex for a year, certainly I'll figure it out by then, and still pay less than 1 challenge on the "prop" model. Not to mention before it was unlimited, we were required to flip an account in 30 days.
Even with minimal seed allocations your profit will pay for your subscription. In essence, giving you a free run at building a track record and getting to the Gold level making you eligible for investor capital. All we invest is our time.
Pride always comes before destruction.... -Proverbs 16:18
  • #38,231
  • Jun 25, 2024 7:17pm Jun 25, 2024 7:17pm
Quoting lddd
{quote} I had a look at them a while ago but it seems to be a lot more difficult to trade for a significant income due to the low payout rate compared to say FTMO. Even if I managed to consistently make a few percent a month, it would be far more difficult with their program. Yes, Darwinex seems to make a more serious impression compared to most prop companies, but not nearly as simple and transparent as they advertise. For example, take a close look at how many profitable Darwin's there are that have existed (survived) for longer than a few years...
The chance of getting your own investors like managing a PAMM is pretty slim even with a personal trading record. Darwinex provides the infrastructure and makes it easy for investors to play if they want. Make 3 percent a month and your long term potential is very good. Long term anything with todays prop firms is sketchy at best.
Pride always comes before destruction.... -Proverbs 16:18
  • #38,232
  • Jun 25, 2024 7:19pm Jun 25, 2024 7:19pm
Quoting pipmaster77
Just signal providers.
-I suspect that signal providers may be classified as a CTA in this case. Perhaps they are hoping to skirt that, similar to remote FX props.
  • #38,233
  • Jun 25, 2024 8:53pm Jun 25, 2024 8:53pm
Quoting Expo33
{quote} And what's your risk factor at in the lower left? Still 1.0 or has it changed? {image}
I don't have a risk factor yet. I believe that shows up after callibration stage.
  • #38,234
  • Jun 25, 2024 8:54pm Jun 25, 2024 8:54pm
Quoting Takisd
{quote} If they post the formula then they can't hide the fact the subscriptions are the main source of income.
I did have that suspicion even though the formula thingy is out of my expertise, but recurring fees, nice income stream.
  • #38,235
  • Jun 25, 2024 9:07pm Jun 25, 2024 9:07pm
Quoting Takisd
{quote} I would argue its more likely to get a payout from the retail scam props than darwinex. The consistency factor alone will bring the success rate under 1%. There will always be outliers but a subscription model its obnoxious.
What do you think of the broker option for non-us folk? Use them for brokerage then get track record.
  • #38,236
  • Jun 25, 2024 9:12pm Jun 25, 2024 9:12pm
Quoting procrude
{quote} Monty, is this going to be your first payout? I am curious to see how long the process takes.
2nd payout .. first one took 14 days to approval and then extra 8 days to hit my bank.....


Also i just realised 85$ activation fees a amazing deal.... I paid 160$ on each 50k account lifetime for tradovate... Its 85$ for 150k now i think this is right time to upgrade 50k with 150k accounts coz 5k drawdown is all i need to pull 300$ a day which is 5% risk of 5k which is good for me...
Right now pulling 300-400$ with 2500$ drawdown is huge risk and higher chances of failures.
Extreme gut feeling trader
  • #38,237
  • Jun 25, 2024 9:24pm Jun 25, 2024 9:24pm
Quoting woody70
{quote} I don't know of any prop firm that will allow you to do that. Most say you need to trade your account upfront unless it's an EA. No one would know unless they required an interview at some point.
This all stands to reason.. thanks for your reply! @Woody70
  • #38,238
  • Jun 25, 2024 9:34pm Jun 25, 2024 9:34pm
Quoting Capablanca
To me, personally, prop trading was a fantastic opportunity to speed up the funding of my personal accounts, in just a couple of years, much beyond what I would be able to achieve working and trading just personal account. The only thing I regret is not having been more aggressive in the beginning buying more expensive challenges and having spent too much time in shitty props models like Bluefx (monthly subscription) or TopStep (trailing), when there were much better options around at the time. Finding this thread was a turning point. I think most...

You paint a bleak picture on the future of prop industry, I agree with you somewhat but not entirely.

Yes, there are a shitload of props that are scams, and that will inevitabely go bankrupt. However, I absolutely do not think that the propspace (the CFD ones) will cease to exist, or that it will stop being viable or that no one will care about them in the future.

Instead, I think there will be a great reset of the prop industries where all the retarded prop firms with their BOGO offers, their retarded 6-7% passing target of P1 etc etc that dramatically reduce the margins will simply go away by means of natural selection. Their retarded business model will simply make them go bankrupt.

And left will be solid propfirms that have the bulk of the remaining marketshare that people actually trust (FTMO, 5ers, Alphacapital, E8).. etc.

For example, if we compare to the forex industry, there are probably like 90-95% of SCAM forex brokers. But does that mean that the FX industry is over? Or that people stopped trading forex? No. Rather, it simply means that the bulk (80-90%) of the marketshare is dispersed between the top dogs of forex like ICMarkets, Oanda... etc.

And thats what I think will happen with props.
  • #38,239
  • Jun 25, 2024 10:27pm Jun 25, 2024 10:27pm
Quoting Takisd
{quote} If they post the formula then they can't hide the fact the subscriptions are the main source of income.
The VaR formula was developed 10 years ago for Darwinx platform that deals with real investor capital. The subscription model, DarwinexZero, was live one year ago.
  • #38,240
  • Edited 11:04pm Jun 25, 2024 10:42pm | Edited 11:04pm
Quoting Nsak3y
{quote}-I suspect that signal providers may be classified as a CTA in this case. Perhaps they are hoping to skirt that, similar to remote FX props.
Traders at Darwinex are not signal providers as you presumed. Darwinex algorithms decide how many lots investors accounts buy/sell, and may reject some trades in rare cases, and may exit partial trades earlier than traders account. Darwinex IS the manager of investors capital. Darwinex has satisfied all FCA regulatory requirements of fund management. You can even use Darwinex Pro to start your own hedge fund brand with your own terms (performance fees and management fees), Darwinex has done all necessary regulatory work for you and Darwinex Pro is actually a hedge fund services provider.

If you read their Help section and watch the videos, you will understand how their algorithms work. You will not know the exact formula, but the Help and videos are enough for you to trade the way you want.
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