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  • #35,721
  • May 1, 2024 6:13am May 1, 2024 6:13am
Quoting MissLouise
{quote} Ah, I see. And certainly a valid point. Without having the benefit of accessing any firms to try them out, it's impossible to know which are trustworthy. I certainly consider it worth it to risk a few hundred dollars on a challenge to test the validity of a firm, but to have to first move countries to gain access to even try adds a whole new element of pressure, for sure. I have read through reviews and done research, but it's hard to fully know and trust without firsthand experience. I know that forex trading is what I want to continue...
The time to make money with forex prop firms was 2000-mid 2023........it would be like chasing a losing trade at this point. If you missed the boat, get into the futures props. The forex prop train has left the station......
  • #35,722
  • May 1, 2024 6:16am May 1, 2024 6:16am
Quoting woody70
{quote} It all depends on where you are trying to go. I can tell you from my experience that Germany is a nightmare with paperwork. It's harder for someone coming in from the U.S. than it is for an illegal immigrant. Without a job, student visa, or some monthly income that you can prove like retirement or something it's not going to happen. Medical insurance is costly too. There is no way remotely either. You need residency paperwork to get a driver's license, bank account, etc. If you are thinking about Europe at least the European Union it would...
Hilarious that US can't get into other countries, but anyone can just walk accross our southern border(s)....but hey, our country is in great shape under the current admin.
  • #35,723
  • May 1, 2024 6:23am May 1, 2024 6:23am
Quoting KarlKraus
{quote} You couldn't be more mistaken if you tried, Capa. The point you’re missing (as always) is that you don’t have to take anyone else’s word for it. It takes only a second to verify it for yourself. However many times this is pointed out to people here, they choose to ignore it, because they’d rather “be right” than learn something. Good luck with that.
He completely understands how to verify it (we all do). The point he is making is when attempting to verify it by placing an order, it DOES NOT SHOW up with 99% of these futures prop firms. Therefore, it is the same as the forex props, no live trades going to market. Most of the futures props actually disclose this right on their website(s).
  • #35,724
  • May 1, 2024 6:34am May 1, 2024 6:34am
Quoting pipmaster77
{quote} He completely understands how to verify it (we all do). The point he is making is when attempting to verify it by placing an order, it DOES NOT SHOW up with 99% of these futures prop firms. Therefore, it is the same as the forex props, no live trades going to market. Most of the futures props actually disclose this right on their website(s).
Dipshit still doesn’t realize 99% of participants are on sim.
Trade with confidence, trade without fear.
  • #35,725
  • May 1, 2024 6:35am May 1, 2024 6:35am
Time for Karl to confess who he is shilling for or leave.
  • #35,726
  • May 1, 2024 6:43am May 1, 2024 6:43am
Quoting pipmaster77
{quote} Hilarious that US can't get into other countries, but anyone can just walk accross our southern border(s)....but hey, our country is in great shape under the current admin.
Oh and I forgot to mention the language requirement too. You would need to enroll in a school or take online classes. Yeah I can say its not easy.
  • #35,727
  • May 1, 2024 6:59am May 1, 2024 6:59am
Quoting KarlKraus
{quote} You couldn't be more mistaken if you tried, Capa. The point you’re missing (as always) is that you don’t have to take anyone else’s word for it. It takes only a second to verify it for yourself. However many times this is pointed out to people here, they choose to ignore it, because they’d rather “be right” than learn something. Good luck with that.
You keep telling something that is true -> it's possible to verify if an order is in the real market.
I don't disagree with it because that's factual. I did it myself some years ago to confirm that my orders were just dummy ones, not sent to real market. Super easy to do.

Where you fail to understand is that this truth is completely useless here because, even if people do what you say, they won't find any real market orders in most of the videogames that are discussed in this thread. And also on the ones that will come soon.

If you want to discuss REAL prop firms I'm afraid you will get very frustrated in this topic. This topic is mostly about trading videogames.
  • #35,728
  • May 1, 2024 7:04am May 1, 2024 7:04am
Quoting Capablanca
If you want to discuss REAL prop firms I'm afraid you will get very frustrated in this topic. This topic is mostly about trading videogames.

Here you have a very good point, and you make it well. Thank you.
  • #35,729
  • May 1, 2024 7:05am May 1, 2024 7:05am
Quoting Capablanca
Alpha news rule update {image}
Alpha was flogged after the news rule and did an update.

Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: Alpha1.jpeg Size: 124 KB


Theses days props seem like politicians. They want to raise taxes from 25% to 27%, they launch a proposal for 30%, there's a lot of criticism and then they decrease it to 27%, seeming a victory for people.

Either that or who is running these props don't give 5 minutes thought about what they release in things so evident like this.
  • #35,730
  • May 1, 2024 7:23am May 1, 2024 7:23am
My Flash seems to be denying and banning too many account recently.
Here is an example, very detailed, but there is more.
https://twitter.com/TraderBach/statu...03020182446182
  • #35,731
  • May 1, 2024 7:33am May 1, 2024 7:33am
Don't know if anyone use Glownode here but refund will be gone as well, among other changes.
https://twitter.com/GlowNodefx/statu...15015833145648

And apparently they have a rule about SLs that they don't say in support. 25% of orders have to have SL
https://twitter.com/ElliottWaveMas1/...28039344250970
  • #35,732
  • May 1, 2024 7:44am May 1, 2024 7:44am
Quoting Capablanca
{quote} You keep telling something that is true -> it's possible to verify if an order is in the real market. I don't disagree with it because that's factual. I did it myself some years ago to confirm that my orders were just dummy ones, not sent to real market. Super easy to do. Where you fail to understand is that this truth is completely useless here because, even if people do what you say, they won't find any real market orders in most of the videogames that are discussed in this thread. And also on the ones that will come soon. If you want...
Retail traders often trade using bucket shops, as with smaller accounts the choice is limited.
After reading the last several posts of this thread the impression I got that these "Prop firms" are neither bucket or shop, or anything in between, completely outside what already has been discussed for decades.
Obviously I am very uninformed on this subject. In this case can it be true that ignorance is bliss???
Make sure losses are small and profits are bigger!
  • #35,733
  • May 1, 2024 7:58am May 1, 2024 7:58am
Quoting Capablanca
My Flash seems to be denying and banning too many account recently. Here is an example, very detailed, but there is more. https://twitter.com/TraderBach/statu...03020182446182
If somebody try to earn 20,000$ and it happens frequently, this person sums up in a batch of people emptying the money reserve in the Prop company. This leads to the companies go broke. And to the situation where we daily hear about companies denying payouts.

The problem is of cause, that the Prop companies are selling big money accounts in order to grab the customers. Another problem is, that some people keep thinking they can send gigantic invoises and trust they will be paid. Why don't we learn? That person don't need to invoice 20,000$ again and again and he can also be sure, that it will not be paid. So why not keep it less huge and then get paid. That way the Prop industry might surwive and we can all make our living peacefully.
MetaTrader 4 - so many advantages.
  • #35,734
  • May 1, 2024 8:00am May 1, 2024 8:00am
Quoting 2be
{quote} Retail traders often trade using bucket shops, as with smaller accounts the choice is limited. After reading the last several posts of this thread the impression I got that these "Prop firms" are neither bucket or shop, or anything in between, completely outside what already has been discussed for decades. Obviously I am very uninformed on this subject. In this case can it be true that ignorance is bliss???
Most of what is discussed here are trading videogames or, if you prefer, a gambling house where you pay to pass a challenge, then you're given a "funded" account and if you make a profit on that "funded" you get a % of that profit. All simulated stuff (thus a videogame).

The winners are paid with the fees from the losers (the ones that can't pass the challenge or don't make a profit in the "funded" account).
  • #35,735
  • May 1, 2024 8:30am May 1, 2024 8:30am
Waiting till 10:45 AM to play with my NQ's
Drawdown is more important than Account Size !
  • #35,736
  • May 1, 2024 8:36am May 1, 2024 8:36am
All of Sean Baintons companies are close to insolvent. Aqua being the most stable of the 3. My flash funding are banning because they are insolvent. We will see a lot of this now because the toxic groups have become too big and too greedy. The refund removal helps deter them a little bit but it will also drain the revenues as these groups slag off people in public.

The majority of props now are just dogs chasing their tail around in circles. They didn't make a business that is sustainable, they didnt invest in their business and all these businesses have cycles and maturities where the payout cycles lag the revenue cycles. So if your payout cycle is at a peak an the revenue cycle dips you will still be paying high payouts for far less revenue. Even if you have a somewhat interesting reserve system, those reserves usually around decemeber will be eaten.

Many industry favorites have chewed on their reserves now because post november, the market place hasn't recovered and just keeps shrinking. A large percentage of the remaining traders using props are just greedy cheats and lazy people who don't want to learn to trade to pass. Double digit percent of the traders in these props are not legitimate from a "funding an individual to be a trader" point of view.

We have reached the point that the prop behaves like a casino and people treat it like a casino. So as with casinos, if you win too much, you get dragged out the door - beaten up - then banned. We should expect no more than that from the existing players.
  • #35,737
  • May 1, 2024 8:42am May 1, 2024 8:42am
Quoting 2be
{quote} Retail traders often trade using bucket shops, as with smaller accounts the choice is limited. After reading the last several posts of this thread the impression I got that these "Prop firms" are neither bucket or shop, or anything in between, completely outside what already has been discussed for decades. Obviously I am very uninformed on this subject. In this case can it be true that ignorance is bliss???
apologies if i'm preaching to the choir here, and for the wall of text, but essentially they operate under the same principle as a/b book brokers, which is that 90%+ will fuck up and lose all their money.

with a 'prop' firm, you will pay a fee to take a challenge, the industry standard seems to be around $90 for a $10,000 account challenge, $500 for a $100,000 account challenge, (which incentivises people to buy the more expensive accounts, as you are paying less per dollar in the account). there are 2 stages of this challenge, the first is usually make 8-10% on the account while adhering to their rules (no more than 10% drawdown of original balance, no more than 5% of original balance lost in one day, no HFT strategies). the second stage is same rules, but you only have to make 5%. once completed, you reach the funded stage, they refund your challenge fee, and 80% of any 'profit' (i say 'profit' as at no point during the challenge or afterwards are you trading on a live account in the real market) is yours, and any loss is on them.

despite this sounding relatively easily, especially to new traders who are used to +30% days gambling their entire account, the failure rate is anywhere between 97%-99.7%, as reported by a few of the firms who have shared their statistics. lets take the highest pass rate reported, 3%, and do the maths - 100 people pay $90 for a challenge fee, = $9000. 3 of those 100 reach the 'funded' stage, and are refunded their original $90, at which point they collectively have to make $10912.5 profit (accounting for the fact they get 80% of the profit made on the account) between them before the firm is losing money, basically 35% each, without ever facing a drawdown of more than 10%. even if this was to happen, and a trader made 35% in the first month, the firm reserves the right to ban any trader without reason, at their discretion, which is what will most likely happen to you unless you are a youtuber/social media personality with the power to reduce challenge sales at the firm.

there are numerous other hidden rules/tricks they use to work against traders, the major one people tend to talk about is artificial slippage; the worst i have ever seen is a 10 pip stop loss being filled at 15 pips, which can have a pretty big impact on the account, especially if you increase position size of winning trades, this could mean a loss chalked in for -1% could become -2% or more pretty quickly.

if you know how to use them they are a pretty useful tool, however for most they are just a waste of time
  • #35,738
  • May 1, 2024 8:46am May 1, 2024 8:46am
Quoting RiskFighter
The problem is of cause, that the Prop companies are selling big money accounts in order to grab the customers. Another problem is, that some people keep thinking they can send gigantic invoises and trust they will be paid. Why don't we learn? That person don't need to invoice 20,000$ again and again and he can also be sure, that it will not be paid. So why not keep it less huge and then get paid.
LOL!!

Again, like some others here, you’re totally missing the point.

What you’re saying is true only when the “funder” is actually the counterparty to the bets/trades. That’s always (or virtually always) the case, with forex funding.
It isn’t with futures funding. Those are real accounts on a real exchange (as you can so easily verify for yourself!).

Topstep would not have survived for more than a decade, and would not be winning US government industry awards, if they were the counterparty!

Like other futures prop firms, they are opening real accounts on a real exchange for their funded account-holders. So are Tradeday. So are Earn2Trade’s funders. There are many such companies. They are honest, transparent, ethical businesses.

Forex and futures funding are two totally different business models.

One is open, ethical and honest. The other isn’t.

Most people posting in this thread either don’t understand this simple reality or they understand it but want to deny it for some reason, and just pretend it isn’t so.
Or they don’t understand that trading futures is no more difficult than trading forex/CFDs and that they‘ll need to learn a new skill-set to do it.

That’s all wrong.

Until people learn this simple point, they’ll have to carry on dealing with counterparties who want to find excuses not to pay them out, rather than with real funders who want them to win and are on their side.

It really is as simple as that.
  • #35,739
  • May 1, 2024 8:50am May 1, 2024 8:50am
Quoting Takisd
All of Sean Baintons companies are close to insolvent. Aqua being the most stable of the 3. My flash funding are banning because they are insolvent. We will see a lot of this now because the toxic groups have become too big and too greedy. The refund removal helps deter them a little bit but it will also drain the revenues as these groups slag off people in public. The majority of props now are just dogs chasing their tail around in circles. They didn't make a business that is sustainable, they didnt invest in their business and all these businesses...
When there isn't a major drama playing on it nice to have Takisd to give us the daily dose of optimism.

This industry is all fked up. I'm trying to milk my last dollars from this drained cow.
  • #35,740
  • May 1, 2024 9:01am May 1, 2024 9:01am
Quoting procrude
Waiting till 10:45 AM to play with my NQ's
don't forget....FED rate decision today.
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