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  • #30,321
  • Feb 13, 2024 1:32pm Feb 13, 2024 1:32pm
Quoting Nsak3y
{quote}-To be fair, most of the firms stated that the funded accounts were demo, and that the trades would be copied over to a live account at the firm's discretion. Only later, did these firms decide to rephrase everything, but it wasn't really necessary to do that, and only made things look worse.
It was still murky at best. We knew and made jokes of it.
Trade with confidence, trade without fear.
  • #30,322
  • Feb 13, 2024 1:32pm Feb 13, 2024 1:32pm
Quoting CableJ
{quote} that is MFF's current stance vs. the CFTC... it remains to be seen if that line of defense will be successful.
The defense will only work to lessen their pain.
  • #30,323
  • Feb 13, 2024 1:42pm Feb 13, 2024 1:42pm
Quoting Cryptosurf
CFTC clearly doesn’t like the business model as pointed out in the MFF docs. Regardless if it’s demo or not. Fees are being paid in (and out) to play a game that centers around prohibited trading instruments.
-That is understood. However, I am proposing that the law may not be clear here, and that what the CFTC are claiming and what the law actually states may not be the same. Just using blanket regulation should not be an acceptable solution, I think.
  • #30,324
  • Feb 13, 2024 2:02pm Feb 13, 2024 2:02pm
been a while since i posted in here but was reading a little and a couple of things.

E8...no more meta sounds like...that correct? but still in USA?
and if anything the best thing you could hope for is that the CFTC lets props exists in the USA but wont let you trade anything but currency and/or crypto instruments. But no more CFDs like NAS/US100 XAU etc. so basically like a regular broker but as a prop
  • #30,325
  • Feb 13, 2024 2:08pm Feb 13, 2024 2:08pm
Quoting Takisd
they are bypassing the CFD's laws in the US and breaching global primes metaquotes contract at the same time.

Maybe I misunderstood you, but how can "they" be breaching Global Prime’s MQ contract when neither they nor their customers use a MQ product?
  • #30,326
  • Feb 13, 2024 2:12pm Feb 13, 2024 2:12pm
Quoting KarlKraus
{quote} Maybe I misunderstood you, but how can "they" be breaching Global Prime’s MQ contract when neither they nor their customers use a MQ product?

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  • #30,327
  • Feb 13, 2024 2:13pm Feb 13, 2024 2:13pm
In my opinion, the remote prop model was deliberately structured to act as a way to curate signal providers by weeding out the bad, and keeping the good, while paying providers based on performance. This allowed firms to make discretionary trading decisions based on accumulated data, without the involvement of the signal provider(s). Any claims of A-booking or similar is where things can get messy.

It is not up to regulators to decide how many real trades should be made from that signal data, and since the firms are not providing any real trading services to signal providers, then the scope of US regulatory involvement should stop here (with the exception of any proclaimed A-booking).

If anything, regulators should be enforcing licensing requirements for signal providers, but even that may be questionable. Beyond that, perhaps it would need to be a case-by-case basis, depending on what each firm is actually doing behind the scenes.

The case against MFF should help to bring clarity to the law and possibly new legislation for dealing with these unique models. However, I suspect that it won't.

It will definitely set the tone for things going forward, however. There will likely be a settlement that will only help to set a bad precedent, allowing regulators to easily steamroll all remaining remote prop firms without actually having the proper regulatory jurisdiction and legal clarity to so do.

The house of cards is falling already, and the more cards that fall, the more people will feel inclined to just accept that these firms are doing wrong, without any clear determination as to why.
  • #30,328
  • Feb 13, 2024 2:15pm Feb 13, 2024 2:15pm
Quoting Nsak3y
{quote}-That is understood. However, I am proposing that the law may not be clear here, and that what the CFTC are claiming and what the law actually states may not be the same. Just using blanket regulation should not be an acceptable solution, I think.
Well I think that’s why MFF launched such a stern legal defense. It was clear that the CFTC doesn’t like the business model, separate from any claims of fraud. CFTC is asserting that the business model is in violation of existing laws.
Trade with confidence, trade without fear.
  • #30,329
  • Feb 13, 2024 2:16pm Feb 13, 2024 2:16pm
Quoting hazelj80
the best thing you could hope for is that the CFTC lets props exists in the USA but wont let you trade anything but currency and/or crypto instruments. But no more CFDs like NAS/US100 XAU etc. so basically like a regular broker but as a prop
-And as someone that trades indices-only, I would be fine with that. But at least allow for a competitive playing field.
  • #30,330
  • Feb 13, 2024 2:19pm Feb 13, 2024 2:19pm
Quoting Nsak3y
In my opinion, the remote prop model was deliberately structured to act as a way to curate signal providers by weeding out the bad, and keeping the good, while paying providers based on performance. This allowed firms to make discretionary trading decisions based on accumulated data, without the involvement of the signal provider(s). Any claims of A-booking or similar is where things can get messy. It is not up to regulators to decide how many real trades should be made from that signal data, and since the firms are not providing any real trading...
Congress could do their job and revise existing statues, but we’ll be turned to dust before that ever happens.
Trade with confidence, trade without fear.
  • #30,331
  • Feb 13, 2024 2:26pm Feb 13, 2024 2:26pm
When i read posts from member from US look's like i'm reading posts from 3 world members
  • #30,332
  • Feb 13, 2024 2:26pm Feb 13, 2024 2:26pm
Quoting Cryptosurf
Well I think that’s why MFF launched such a stern legal defense. It was clear that the CFTC doesn’t like the business model, separate from any claims of fraud. CFTC is asserting that the business model is in violation of existing laws.
-Yes. I cannot argue against any claims that MFF messed up, because they clearly did, and in different ways; they should be held accountable for those things.

But my hope is that any judge or jury can be objective instead of just accepting the CFTC's claims that MFF are in violation of US regulatory requirements, and really look closely at what the law states vs. what MFF were actually doing.

Any reasonable judge will lean on precedent and current, existing laws to make a discernment, in lieu of ruling based on opinion or 'what should be'.

Unfortunately, MFF will likely settle, rendering this all moot anyways. Their legal counsel will reason with them, that any continued pursuit of this would last years and probably bankrupt them etc..
  • #30,333
  • Feb 13, 2024 2:34pm Feb 13, 2024 2:34pm
Quoting mizi123
When i read posts from member from US look's like i'm reading posts from 3 world members
That's because, in reality, you are.
  • #30,334
  • Feb 13, 2024 2:35pm Feb 13, 2024 2:35pm
Quoting KarlKraus
Lux funded accounts are ...
... I think they're safe from the current CFTC/MQ situations anyway.
Quoting Takisd
Why would they be safe?
Because neither they nor their customers use a MQ product (even though Global Prime obviously does, for non-Lux customers).
  • #30,335
  • Feb 13, 2024 2:47pm Feb 13, 2024 2:47pm
Quoting KarlKraus
{quote} {quote} Because neither they nor their customers use a MQ product (even though Global Prime obviously does, for non-Lux customers).
I assume you are referring to them using TV right?
  • #30,336
  • Feb 13, 2024 2:49pm Feb 13, 2024 2:49pm
Quoting mizi123
When i read posts from member from US look's like i'm reading posts from 3 world members
Banana Republic would be an upgrade from where we’re at.
Trade with confidence, trade without fear.
  • #30,337
  • Feb 13, 2024 2:50pm Feb 13, 2024 2:50pm
Quoting KarlKraus
Because neither they nor their customers use a MQ product (even though Global Prime obviously does, for non-Lux customers).
Don’t be silly, Karl.

If you’re waiting for the words "Sorry, I made a mistake" (just like we all were when he announced and repeatedly insisted that the MFF litigation is a criminal case, and refused ever to retract it or say 'I was mistaken' however many people explained that it isn’t, and that he was) you’ll wait for ever because those words just aren’t in his vocabulary.

'Being Right' is, in fact, his sole concern. & obviously, just like everyone else whose sole concern it is, he almost never is - that’s why it matters so much to him and how he became one of the people to whom it was so important.

Just put him on ignore.
  • #30,338
  • Feb 13, 2024 2:52pm Feb 13, 2024 2:52pm
Quoting Quickly
{quote} Don’t be silly, Karl. If you’re waiting for the words "Sorry, I made a mistake" (just like we all were when he announced and repeatedly insisted that the MFF litigation is a criminal case, and refused ever to retract it or say 'I was mistaken' however many people explained that it isn’t, and that he was) you’ll wait for ever because those words just aren’t in his vocabulary. 'Being Right' is, in fact, his sole concern. & obviously, just like everyone else whose sole concern it is, he almost never is - that’s why it matters so much to him...
Yep thats what its all about. And you in here still getting your nuts in a twist about it.
  • #30,339
  • Feb 13, 2024 3:02pm Feb 13, 2024 3:02pm
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No metaquotes here bro.

Or here

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Tradingview is just a layer on top of metaquotes for those interested. There is no trading engine in Tradingview.

For clarity, I don't know what lux trader is. It sounds like tradelocker but I am unsure.
  • #30,340
  • Edited 3:22pm Feb 13, 2024 3:02pm | Edited 3:22pm
Quoting mizi123
When i read posts from member from US look's like i'm reading posts from 3 world members
-As someone that has traveled to various countries around the world, I can honestly say that the US is not the land of the free as many might believe. Corruption exists everywhere, but we are just better at disguising it here.

In developing countries, you often see blatant corruption, but at least you know what to expect because they are not hiding it or trying to disguise it as something else. Often, you even know and understand why they are doing it. Not in the US.

In the States, we have fancy words like lobbying to disguise illegal activity such as bribery. For anything that cannot be hidden, they just write laws for. Laws that require you to purchase insurance. Minimum square-footage laws, water privatization laws, jaywalking laws etc.. All of these laws serve a purpose, but don't be fooled.

The United States has the largest imprisonment rate over any country in the world. Even China, with over 4 times the population of the US and arguably, a more-controlling government, does not have as many prisoners.

Many people also think that Americans are rich. While some are, most are living in debt, paycheck-to-paycheck, and the big houses that we are 'forced' to live in take up most of that paycheck each month, along with outrageous food costs and so forth. Don't even talk about taxes.

Not to whine, but hopefully it will help to bring some understanding about why Americans are fed up about over-reaching regulators taking away more opportunities as a means for profit.
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