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  • #30,141
  • Feb 12, 2024 9:00am Feb 12, 2024 9:00am
Quoting PropDude1234
{quote}You should totally expect to receive slippage at 100 lots (assuming a standard contract sizing). What kind of CFD order book just has 100 lots sat there at the top of the book to give an instant fill? Prop trading has given a totally distorted sense of what actually happens in the real markets. There aren't retail CFD traders sat there with fully funded $200,000 trying to scalp in and out with 100 lots.
there are lot of retail who do with 100 lot scalping (of course in real accounts, not in props (thats was your point only , or ?)), i do sometimes too and i know at least 10 other (and we all do it 15 years or more). but i always accept higher spread and slippage of course. splitting account is useless, because all go to same LP. or you would have to accept a lot of market maker brokers, but they kick you out fast after bigger profits .

100-200 lot is still fine in eurusd in london / US time. of course you cant then use "fill or kill (FoK)" platforms like metatrader, you need partially fills too.
  • #30,142
  • Feb 12, 2024 9:05am Feb 12, 2024 9:05am
Quoting Trader191
{quote} there are lot of retail who do with 100 lot scalping, i do sometimes too and i know at least 10 other (and we all do it 15 years or more). but i always accept higher spread and slippage of course. splitting account is useless, because all go to same LP. or you would have to accept a lot of market maker brokers, but they kick you out fast after bigger profits . 100-200 lot is still fine in eurusd in london / US time. of course you cant then use fill or kill platforms like metatrader, you need partially fills too.
That is not true. Open E8 or ICMarkets account, Try 10 lots. Observe slippage. Split account in 10 guess what slippage disappears. What makes you think every thing goes to same LP. They might be 3-4 LP's or they might not be A-Booking all together.
  • #30,143
  • Feb 12, 2024 9:13am Feb 12, 2024 9:13am
Quoting sampat
{quote} That is not true. Open E8 or ICMarkets account, Try 10 lots. Observe slippage. Split account in 10 guess what slippage disappears. What makes you think every thing goes to same LP. They might be 3-4 LP's or they might not be A-Booking all together.
when you are a good Daytrader you never get A booked by your broker, this happens on beginning in medium level and will change later.
no broker risk on A book for very short term trader, you will get at higher level filling process and broker will first get the trade from LP and then give to you, not like A book they give you the amount to the price and then try to get from the LP for whatever price is then. this risk they will not take when you are consistent good in short term daytrading for longer time with them. they still earn millions over time with you in commission, so they like this safe business too.

and use prime brokers, or prime of prime. the brokers you listen you will not use when you are bigger. and 10 lot is so small trade , splitting this is crazy. splitting maybe you have to do with "bad" brokers in FoK platforms, but thats a story about the platform designing and broker.
  • #30,144
  • Feb 12, 2024 9:18am Feb 12, 2024 9:18am
Quoting sampat
{quote} That is not true. Open E8 or ICMarkets account, Try 10 lots. Observe slippage. Split account in 10 guess what slippage disappears. What makes you think every thing goes to same LP. They might be 3-4 LP's or they might not be A-Booking all together.
Yes, if you split 10 lots into 1 singles, then you're more likely to not have issues because it's not a large amount of collective volume.

Even with multiple LPs all feeding the same order book, there's only so much liquidity available. Once you reach a certain scale (100 was proposed in the post I replied to), that no longer is effective. Either because the available contracts aren't there, or the back-end systems will prevent you from eating up all the top of book liquidity, which impacts a large number of other people trading. You're not going to be able to load in 100 x 1 lot positions instantaneously without issues.

DMA / L2 offers something different, but that's not what's being discussed here.
  • #30,145
  • Feb 12, 2024 9:20am Feb 12, 2024 9:20am
Quoting PropDude1234
{quote}Yes, if you split 10 lots into 1 singles, then you're more likely to not have issues because it's not a large amount of collective volume. Even with multiple LPs all feeding the same order book, there's only so much liquidity available. Once you reach a certain scale (100 was proposed in the post I replied to), that no longer is effective. Either because the available contracts aren't there, or the back-end systems will prevent you from eating up all the top of book liquidity, which impacts a large number of other people trading. You're not...
10 lot is nothing, really nothing for normal broker. most of time 5-20 lot are minimum spread tier in near any currency.
its the FoK platforms that make the problems.
  • #30,146
  • Feb 12, 2024 9:33am Feb 12, 2024 9:33am
Quoting Trader191
{quote} 10 lot is nothing, really nothing for normal broker. most of time 5-20 lot are minimum spread tier in near any currency. its the FoK platforms that make the problems.
My original answer was to someone talking about 100 lots. 10 may well have no issue at high volume times etc.
  • #30,147
  • Feb 12, 2024 9:37am Feb 12, 2024 9:37am
Quoting PropDude1234
{quote}My original answer was to someone talking about 100 lots. 10 may well have no issue at high volume times etc.
10 lot has not even smallest issue at lowest volume times.
thats one of lowest values you can imagine, maybe 5 lot sometimes in some currencies or some LP shut down around rollover time.

yes , your answer is true that splitting 100 lot in 100 1 lot orders, will only have influence with:
- market makers, so B booked (that in general no winner can use long term, because of kicked out to reduce broker losses)
- still around medium level and broker do A book you because your wins are not so high or consitent or your decoy value is high enough
- you have a FoK (fill full or kill/dont fill order) platform (thats for most traders the real reason its a difference)
- you use different bokers with different LP (but good brokers have near all in one)
  • #30,148
  • Feb 12, 2024 9:44am Feb 12, 2024 9:44am
Quoting Trader191
{quote} 10 lot has not even smallest issue at lowest volume times. thats one of lowest values you can imagine, maybe 5 lot sometimes in some currencies or some LP shut down around rollover time. yes , your answer is true that splitting 100 lot in 100 1 lot orders, will only have influence with: - market makers, so B booked - still around medium level and broker do A book you because your wins are not so high or consitent or your decoy value is high enough - you have a FoK platform (thats for most the real reason its a difference) - you use different...
None of this applies to 99% of traders, though. Just do not see the relevance here ........show of hands, who is currently trading with a prime of prime and not a FoK platform? Other than, of course, to be anti-prop and show us how much larger of a trader you are than us?
  • #30,149
  • Feb 12, 2024 9:47am Feb 12, 2024 9:47am
Quoting pipmaster77
{quote} None of this applies to 99% of traders, though. Just do not see the relevance here ........show of hands, who is currently trading with a prime of prime and not a FoK platform? Other than, of course, to be anti-prop and show us how much larger of a trader you are than us?
anyone who has 100k or more like many write here. so when they earn and are not liar they should have, i cant imagine all the time here are only liars.

of course many can be liar and useless to say reality here, but you never know.. maybe some are real traders (and of course anyone can be a liar until you see his true performance statement in real, thatswhy i just write whats the reality, what you do with this information its up to the reader).

by the way, i always underestimate and never write so big what i do, nothing to show off. i just give hints how easy math can go wrong without all (!) opportunity costs calculated in. so anyone has more easy data to calculate full picture. and i never say its only one way to do (ok in some topics i do, like some idiotic hedge plans of people, what really are objective less efficient then do it correct way with just close position and reopen), i just say the options and the costs for doing one way or other.

but in last questions was all about how is real market filling, so what is so bad for people to know about this and why i should not mention it ?
  • #30,150
  • Feb 12, 2024 10:03am Feb 12, 2024 10:03am
Quoting Trader191
{quote} anyone who has 100k or more like many write here. so when they earn and are not liar they should have, i cant imagine all the time here are only liars. of course many can be liar and useless to say reality here, but you never know.. maybe some are real traders (and of course anyone can be a liar until you see his true performance statement in real, thatswhy i just write whats the reality, what you do with this information its up to the reader).
100K does not get you Prime of Prime in the US. I think Forex Factory , at this point, needs to also segregate USA traders from everyone else, as the CFTC has done. The info is just completely different vs. the rest of the civilized world.
  • #30,151
  • Feb 12, 2024 10:23am Feb 12, 2024 10:23am
Quoting pipmaster77
{quote} 100K does not get you Prime of Prime in the US. I think Forex Factory , at this point, needs to also segregate USA traders from everyone else, as the CFTC has done. The info is just completely different vs. the rest of the civilized world.
yes, usa is maybe different, this i really dont know.
even an european company (like maybe a limited in England or a company in dubai .....) owned by US person has this restrictions?
  • #30,152
  • Feb 12, 2024 10:29am Feb 12, 2024 10:29am
Quoting pipmaster77
{quote} 100K does not get you Prime of Prime in the US. I think Forex Factory , at this point, needs to also segregate USA traders from everyone else, as the CFTC has done. The info is just completely different vs. the rest of the civilized world.
Something will change at some point. But need to wait for someone to stick their neck out.
  • #30,153
  • Feb 12, 2024 10:32am Feb 12, 2024 10:32am
Quoting pipmaster77
Hmmmm..............I wonder what kind of slippage one experiences when trading in sizes that generate a 200K gain or loss? Certainly one is not scalping 1000 lots for 20 pips? I wonder if the market "slips you to hell" so to speak?
-When you are trading a 6-figure account, you generally want to break up your orders, depending on the size that you are trading. Not sure how you define scalping, but you can trade the 15-minute chart with that kind of size easily enough. I don't know about 1000 lots, though; maybe it depends on the contract specifications.
  • #30,154
  • Feb 12, 2024 10:33am Feb 12, 2024 10:33am
Quoting PropDude1234
You're not going to be able to load in 100 x 1 lot positions instantaneously without issues.
-It doesn't need to be 'all at once'. It's not difficult.
  • #30,155
  • Feb 12, 2024 10:33am Feb 12, 2024 10:33am
Quoting navk
In my personal opinion, monty needs to reduce risk appetite. Longivity is important.
-You can make a living with a 2k account using high-risk, so long as you are withdrawing regularly and willing to start over often etc.. I know of one trader that does this. He flips the account until it reaches 30k to 60k, withdraws everything except 2k and does it again; rinse and repeat. If he blows an account, he always has about 30k on reserve to put another 2k in and start again.

There are many ways to be successful in this business.
  • #30,156
  • Feb 12, 2024 10:38am Feb 12, 2024 10:38am
Can you guys please check my recent thread about Fundednext on Twitter:
https://twitter.com/Bouteflikrote/st...79879692640542

They deactivated my account claiming I traded on rollover period while nothing mentioned it was prohibed, they said I take advantage of low liquidity. I tried to explain them my strategy works on live account, they didn't seem to understand.
  • #30,157
  • Feb 12, 2024 10:44am Feb 12, 2024 10:44am
Quoting Nsak3y
{quote}-You can make a living with a 2k account using high-risk, so long as you are withdrawing regularly and willing to start over often etc.. I know of one trader that does this. He flips the account until it reaches 30k to 60k, withdraws everything except 2k and does it again; rinse and repeat. If he blows an account, he always has about 30k on reserve to put another 2k in and start again. There are many ways to be successful in this business.
Yes, in a personal account, that strategy is preferable.

I am planning in the same way for my real money account.

For a prop firm account, that daily DD breach level set at 5 %, so, one needs to reduce risk exposure in order to prolong in prop account.
Intraday only.
  • #30,158
  • Feb 12, 2024 10:50am Feb 12, 2024 10:50am
Quoting navk
For a prop firm account, that daily DD breach level set at 5 %, so, one needs to reduce risk exposure in order to prolong in prop account.
-Technically, the daily draw-down is 50%, right? And you are flipping a prop account at least once to get funded. It's not much different. When you are funded, though, you get a refund, so you can even trade with 0 risk.

But yes, I was speaking about personal brokerage account.
  • #30,159
  • Feb 12, 2024 11:08am Feb 12, 2024 11:08am
Quoting Nsak3y
{quote}-You can make a living with a 2k account using high-risk, so long as you are withdrawing regularly and willing to start over often etc.. I know of one trader that does this. He flips the account until it reaches 30k to 60k, withdraws everything except 2k and does it again; rinse and repeat. If he blows an account, he always has about 30k on reserve to put another 2k in and start again. There are many ways to be successful in this business.
Yeah, why not, anything is possible with determination and planning and guts and trade management
but to do this successfully one needs to experienced, can't expect something like this from a newbie who just come into trading seeing somebody online
even if newbie able to flip 2x 3x 10x 20x, it would have been merely by luck and at the end everything will be lost
and when that newbie try again to take revenge, to make what is lost, it cannot be done again the same way he did earlier because it was all luck
and trying to do this like again n again and failling again n again, later that newbie becomes beast
and then he can do what he did in the past by mere luck, again and again and with planning
thats how a person become a trader, a profitable trader who can make a fortune just by doing trading
  • #30,160
  • Feb 12, 2024 11:10am Feb 12, 2024 11:10am
Now the big issue with the firms who ceased accepting NEW clients from US, but others may continue.....
When going from pahse 1 to phase 2, new credentials are issued......same from phase 2 to live.
Some firms (most) issue new credentials when you scale.
There is conflicting info due to these technically being new accounts, a trader will be stopped at end of current phase.
So if you are in phase 1 or 2 with a firm which recently banned new USA clients, it may be pointless to continue.....
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