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  • #29,421
  • Feb 6, 2024 9:17am Feb 6, 2024 9:17am
Quoting Capablanca
{quote} Don't laugh at me but the micro lots was one cause of annoyance when I started in Alpha because I like to test the accounts with a 0.01 trade to test and in Alpha that was not going through because the minimum was 0.1. I even contacted support saying that the account was not activated.
Extreme gut feeling trader
  • #29,422
  • Feb 6, 2024 9:19am Feb 6, 2024 9:19am
Quoting CableJ
for smaller firms like e8.... I kind of agree with a profit cap, it would make them more sustainable and should limit denied payments. Only problem... does that chase away the degenerate gambler get rich yesterday types that blow challenge after challenge & how will that affect their bottom line.
-I definitely think profit-caps are the way to go until/unless these firms can figure out a way to manage the flow in a profitable way, which doesn't seem likely.

As far as their bottom line, I think that gamblers will be gamblers. If having a profit cap can help to guarantee payouts and longevity, then it should be well-received. I think, even gamblers have concerns about getting paid, and if they see a firm that is more reliable in that department, then it should be a no-brainer. Getting 8% of 100k is better than getting 0% of 10k because you were denied your payout.

The challenge will be how these firms implement the new model. If they position themselves correctly, and present this change for what it really is 'a way to ensure that ALL payouts get paid and a way for the firm to remain for the long-term' etc., then more traders should feel inclined to accept it, probably.

They will need to be honest about what it really is, and then position themselves as the trustworthy firm that traders can actually count on without being afraid of being denied a payout. That is a lot of transparency, so not all firms may feel comfortable with this approach.
  • #29,423
  • Feb 6, 2024 9:19am Feb 6, 2024 9:19am
Quoting Nsak3y
{quote}-You can check their fee (and limits) schedule here: https://support.transak.com/en/artic...ees-and-limits
Thank you..
  • #29,424
  • Feb 6, 2024 9:20am Feb 6, 2024 9:20am
Quoting AaronPriest
{quote} I still see more value in BuoyTrade and The5ers Hypergrowth program long term than this formula would suggest, but certainly not until being funded with The5ers High Stakes first. Frankly, I can't recommend any others on this list anymore, especially since FTMO banned US citizens. I should add City Traders Imperium and Audacity, because even though they wouldn't rate as high in "value", they are more reputable with an established history.
What must be considered in these "scaling" formulas is this.......when they say make 10% and we scale you 25%.....it's actually when you make 100% (10% target/10% DD) and we scale you 25%.....with hyper growth, they double the account when you make 10% but that is with 6% DD, so it is 167%..... haven't calculated it out as I dismissed that program long ago....plus it is only 50% split on stage 1.....with all things considered, I believe you are still better off with a personal account vs. hyper growth. There is a reason I have only done 2 stage evals. Perhaps, this weekend, I'll run the numbers on some 3 stage and this hyper growth as it looks as if the pricing is different now as well
  • #29,425
  • Feb 6, 2024 9:21am Feb 6, 2024 9:21am
Quoting AaronPriest
{quote} I still see more value in BuoyTrade and The5ers Hypergrowth program long term than this formula would suggest, but certainly not until being funded with The5ers High Stakes first. Frankly, I can't recommend any others on this list anymore, especially since FTMO banned US citizens. I should add City Traders Imperium and Audacity, because even though they wouldn't rate as high in "value", they are more reputable with an established history.
Hi Aaron, have you opened an account with BT yet, their offer looks promising. It's the slow grind and not bad if a trader doesn't take profits and use copy trading and max out the 10 allowed accounts.
  • #29,426
  • Feb 6, 2024 9:27am Feb 6, 2024 9:27am
Quoting CableJ
{quote} for smaller firms like e8.... I kind of agree with a profit cap, it would make them more sustainable and should limit denied payments. Only problem... does that chase away the degenerate gambler get rich yesterday types that blow challenge after challenge & how will that affect their bottom line.
I, for one, would love a non-gambler model. It is actually what this space needs YESTERDAY.
  • #29,427
  • Feb 6, 2024 9:32am Feb 6, 2024 9:32am
Quoting coastie0194
{quote} Hi Aaron, have you opened an account with BT yet, their offer looks promising. It's the slow grind and not bad if a trader doesn't take profits and use copy trading and max out the 10 allowed accounts.
Yes, I did have one, I forgot to place a trade on it while traveling for a few weeks and lost the account, but I'd gotten more out of it than I paid so I didn't care. It was my last MT4 account and I have no interest in going back to MT4 at this point, and they have no plans for MT5, so maybe I'll try again eventually when I've passed some of the free giveaway challenges I've picked up recently. They were a solid prop firm with no fuss, the only "drama" being slow to analyze accounts and get credentials to the next phase, typically 2-4 business days (excluding weekends). But, as you say, it's a slow grind on the back burner anyway--just don't forget about it like I did, haha!
  • #29,428
  • Feb 6, 2024 9:34am Feb 6, 2024 9:34am
Quoting Nsak3y
{quote}-I definitely think profit-caps are the way to go until/unless these firms can figure out a way to manage the flow in a profitable way, which doesn't seem likely. As far as their bottom line, I think that gamblers will be gamblers. If having a profit cap can help to guarantee payouts and longevity, then it should be well-received. I think, even gamblers have concerns about getting paid, and if they see a firm that is more reliable in that department, then it should be a no-brainer. Getting 8% of 100k is better than getting 0% of 10k because...
I think there would be demand for it. It will actually attract traders. I often wonder what% of folks taking prop firm evals have less than 3-6 months trading experience? 1-2 years?, etc. Obviously, as a business that is the customer they are looking for.
Now imagine a model, where it is actually beneficial to the trader and the firm, a true "When you win, we win" model. I believe a firm that introduces this would literally dominate the space.
  • #29,429
  • Feb 6, 2024 9:36am Feb 6, 2024 9:36am
Question for prop firm traders anyone got their account scaled up???
Is it just a myth??
Extreme gut feeling trader
  • #29,430
  • Feb 6, 2024 9:50am Feb 6, 2024 9:50am
Quoting montygoldy
Question for prop firm traders anyone got their account scaled up??? Is it just a myth??
I have one scaled for almost a year in probably the worse prop: TFT.
I asked the scale + payout last week in... TFF (perfect timing)
In 5ers I scaled 2 times before blowing it.
I'm not far from scaling in one of my FXIFY accounts, let's see if I can get there without screwing up things (but, as I said multiple times, their second scale is the ONE I would like because it's double the account)
If Alpha was a 10% prop like others, without demanding the money to be there when we scale, I would have scaled it long time ago (their scale program is terrible with this demand)

5ers is top in what concerns to scale. It's all automatic without having to wait for payouts or such. They just create new account, hassle free.
TFT was difficult with emails back and forth with some payout specialist dumber than a monkey.
TFF had a bottom in the site to request it and supposedly I would get a scaled account after the payout I was waiting.
FXIFY I have no idea but they are so disorganized that may be a mess to get that.
  • #29,431
  • Feb 6, 2024 9:58am Feb 6, 2024 9:58am
Quoting montygoldy
Question for prop firm traders anyone got their account scaled up??? Is it just a myth??
Just scaled the 5%ers last Wednesday. I also scaled in MFF, FTMO, TFF and TFTP.
Obviously, MFF and TFF are not tradeable, FTMO was scaled last year and TFTP I just have the account sitting dormant.
  • #29,432
  • Feb 6, 2024 10:03am Feb 6, 2024 10:03am
Quoting Capablanca
{quote} I have one scaled for almost a year in probably the worse prop: TFT. I asked the scale + payout last week in... TFF (perfect timing) In 5ers I scaled 2 times before blowing it. I'm not far from scaling in one of my FXIFY accounts, let's see if I can get there without screwing up things (but, as I said multiple times, their second scale is the ONE I would like because it's double the account) If Alpha was a 10% prop like others, without demanding the money to be there when we scale, I would have scaled it long time ago (their scale program...
Yes, only issue with 5%ers is new account starts new 14 day cycle. I was set to get paid last Friday and I went $0.18 over the 10% on Wednesday. I knew the process and just didn't close the trade in time.
  • #29,433
  • Feb 6, 2024 10:11am Feb 6, 2024 10:11am
Quoting pipmaster77
I believe a firm that introduces this would literally dominate the space.
-Yes. The futures props are too restrictive, it seems. The FX prop space absolutely needs trust and stability right now, and introducing a model with profit caps, that would ensure that traders get paid, while also ensuring the longevity of the firm, could help to bring that trust and stability.

I would like to see profit caps that are not too restrictive, though. It would need to be at least 20k/month, probably, maybe less, for me to feel okay about it, because otherwise, I would just rather trade my own accounts. The model may need to become a subscription-based model, but I'm not sure. And definitely NO trailing draw-down nonsense.

If FX props want to have smaller accounts, forcing traders to buy and take more challenges etc., then I would be fine with that, so long as we can have 20 of them or something similar to the futures model. Maybe that would eliminate the need for a subscription-based model, by ensuring a constant inflow of cash.

Having traders take a single, 2-phase challenge for 20k of draw-down allowance is a lot different than having them take 20 2-phase challenges for 20k of draw-down allowance, even if the challenges are priced a lot cheaper. The potential revenue for the firm significantly increases.
  • #29,434
  • Feb 6, 2024 10:17am Feb 6, 2024 10:17am
Quoting Nsak3y
{quote}-Yes. The futures props are too restrictive, it seems. The FX prop space absolutely needs trust and stability right now, and introducing a model with profit caps, that would ensure that traders get paid, while also ensuring the longevity of the firm, could help to bring that trust and stability. I would like to see profit caps that are not too restrictive, though. It would need to be at least 20k/month, probably, maybe less, for me to feel okay about it, because otherwise, I would just rather trade my own accounts. The model may need to become...
or as Apex does, the first x amount of payouts are resticted, afterwards, they are not. Perhaps gives them a few cycles to determine what to do with the flow of a profitable trader.
  • #29,435
  • Feb 6, 2024 10:22am Feb 6, 2024 10:22am
Quoting pipmaster77
or as Apex does, the first x amount of payouts are resticted, afterwards, they are not. Perhaps gives them a few cycles to determine what to do with the flow of a profitable trader.
-I'm not sure if this would work with the current state of FX props. Probably, traders would just do what they must to get past the limit anyway (or fail), and the firms would not be able to do much with that extra time/data. So, maybe a win for the firm, but a loss for traders.

I would rather have a fixed cap each month of something like 20k to 30k per trader. That is more than enough, especially if there are multiple firms. If they want to have it spread across 20 accounts, that force traders to take more challenges, then fine, whatever works. Traders can use copiers. Just price the challenges fairly. This should probably work.
  • #29,436
  • Feb 6, 2024 10:26am Feb 6, 2024 10:26am
Scaling is stupid and serves to rush people.

If you have 100k in notional value and 100/1 leverage, why do you need more than $10,000,000 in buying power?
  • #29,437
  • Feb 6, 2024 10:32am Feb 6, 2024 10:32am
Quoting PropDude1234
Scaling is stupid and serves to rush people. If you have 100k in notional value and 100/1 leverage, why do you need more than $10,000,000 in buying power?
It's not stupid if you just trade normally and let it occur naturally. People need to be accountable and have discipline. Why would I NOT want additional funding everytime I achieve a milestone?
  • #29,438
  • Feb 6, 2024 10:33am Feb 6, 2024 10:33am
Quoting PropDude1234
Scaling is stupid and serves to rush people. If you have 100k in notional value and 100/1 leverage, why do you need more than $10,000,000 in buying power?
-Because it's not the buying power that matters, it's the draw-down allowance that is afforded with the increased capital allocation.

Any firm that offers scaling, is offering a chance for increased draw-down allowance, without the added cost and risk of taking on more challenges.

Traders are not forced to rush their scaling. Most firms have reasonable requirements, if not, too slow, actually.
  • #29,439
  • Feb 6, 2024 11:04am Feb 6, 2024 11:04am
Quoting montygoldy
Question for prop firm traders anyone got their account scaled up??? Is it just a myth??
when I flew closer to the sun @ higher risk per trade + didn't use a monthly % target, I scaled up @ FTMO, MFF & TFT. I have not scaled again since moving to a target % 11 months ago... the 5%ers has the best scaling plan.
  • #29,440
  • Feb 6, 2024 11:11am Feb 6, 2024 11:11am
Quoting Nsak3y
{quote}-I'm not sure if this would work with the current state of FX props. Probably, traders would just do what they must to get past the limit anyway (or fail), and the firms would not be able to do much with that extra time/data. So, maybe a win for the firm, but a loss for traders. I would rather have a fixed cap each month of something like 20k to 30k per trader. That is more than enough, especially if there are multiple firms. If they want to have it spread across 20 accounts, that force traders to take more challenges, then fine, whatever...
Realistically, I think 20-30K would work for FTMO & TFT but it's way too high for firms like e8 or my flash.
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