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  • #25,901
  • Nov 10, 2023 7:51am Nov 10, 2023 7:51am
Quoting josh1111
OK Tradingview and Tradovate cannot copy ATM settings for group trades. For me it is irresponsible to enter into a trade(s) without the TP an SL being set with the initial order. In fact a lot of times I am in and out within seconds so the thought of having to send a second order out to get the SL and TP set is a solid No Go for me. I thought Replikanto might solve this issue since you can run Ninjatrader and Tradovate Simultaneously. Here is the correspondence between me and Flowbots regarding these issues. Hopefully someone finds this useful....

Hello Josh.

So let's say that for who trade with just 1 prop firm, like me, and it is fine with group copy of Tradovate, this is not an issue to use some external copier.

But for what you know, if you trade for example on 2-3 props with tradovate or mixed tradovate-rithmic, you think that replikanto is the best tool and to trade on several props unique solution and set up will be Ninja trader dom, correct and from there to trade the master account that will copy the trades on several props accounts. Do you remember if there is some issue on this? like a conflict of 2 props on tradovate, 2 on rithmic, or it will be possible?
in holiday till end of November
  • #25,902
  • Nov 10, 2023 8:12am Nov 10, 2023 8:12am
I think I have fallen in love with the 20 Second Timeframe!
Forexbali what Order flow indicators are you using? I have yet to delve into Order Flow analysis or finding a source of Level 2 data but the short timeframes are awesome!
There is a lot that happens in each minute and it is easier to see in more than the form of a jiggly line on a candle.
Feel like you guys Red Pilled me.
Monty if you try Apex Funding I suggest keep risk down to.4% a trade because of the trailing drawdown.

Cheers
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  • #25,903
  • Nov 10, 2023 8:23am Nov 10, 2023 8:23am
Quoting Artcool
Guys, with all due respect, you are just assuming the worse in any situation. Futures trading is just a niche and future props is a niche in a niche. No one cares if a tiny tiny minority of traders can make money with them. You are among the top 1% here for many of you but you forget that trading is very difficult for the very vast majority of prople and they lose their hard earned money. And I don't think the regulators are thinking of stopping people from making money. They just focus on the majority of traders and those lose their money and then...
lets be realistic: dont forget, you speak here not to the very good trading people (what ever people write about their success a lot of this earn less then in regular jobs and so are losers comparing with normal working people). the talented have all own private accounts traded very big, so their costs to switch to trading game prop would be crazy high. this here are more people with less good trading character (so cant take risk) , strategies without long term success , less experienced traders and so on.

so this talented traders you speak about would not trade in this trading game props, thats a class for their own special kind of people, between beginners and medium advanced.
  • #25,904
  • Nov 10, 2023 8:34am Nov 10, 2023 8:34am
Quoting ForexGalVA
A friend funded with Topstep says there is a sale *tomorrow* on $50k accounts ($11). It was announced recently in a TopStep TV session. The catch is you must be signed up on their email to receive the code. Don't know if that is absolutely required, maybe the code will be generic and can be used by all. I am not associated with Topstep, just passing along info. Tech question for you guys who are good with Tech. Can I copy an Apex Tradovate account to a TopStep Tradovate account? If yes, must it be funded account only, or can it be done with Eval...
Not within Tradovate but I think you can with Replikanto
Trade with confidence, trade without fear.
  • #25,905
  • Nov 10, 2023 8:45am Nov 10, 2023 8:45am
Quoting josh1111
I think I have fallen in love with the 20 Second Timeframe! Forexbali what Order flow indicators are you using? I have yet to delve into Order Flow analysis or finding a source of Level 2 data but the short timeframes are awesome! There is a lot that happens in each minute and it is easier to see in more than the form of a jiggly line on a candle. Feel like you guys Red Pilled me. Monty if you try Apex Funding I suggest keep risk down to.4% a trade because of the trailing drawdown. Cheers {image}
If you trade 20sec, you can assume you will lose without making a spread.
  • #25,906
  • Nov 10, 2023 8:47am Nov 10, 2023 8:47am
Anyone been yrading with Tradeday?? After some researching there offer seems to me the most reasonable. You pay 125$ for 20k account with loss 2000 (EOD) profit 2000 . No activation fee. The only catch i found is when you make on funded account 5000 they open live account for you and they transfer there your profits minus what was withdrawed on the way. So for example if you withdraw 2000 on funded they will open live account with 3000 drawdown buffer.
  • #25,907
  • Nov 10, 2023 8:59am Nov 10, 2023 8:59am
Quoting CableJ
{quote} Updated sheet... To weed out the most egregious botted traffic from smaller countries, I limited data to unique visits from only US + CAN + UK + EU (Italy/France/Spain/Germany) Apex vs. FTMO is interesting {image}
Thanks for the update!
Seems The Trading Pit is gaining some popularity lately
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Money is made by sitting, not trading
  • #25,908
  • Nov 10, 2023 9:06am Nov 10, 2023 9:06am
Market made the high at 2.5 points of the pre-market level in my signature

banked on apex something, market with no news, we will see if will offer some other trade with volatility
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in holiday till end of November
  • #25,909
  • Nov 10, 2023 9:10am Nov 10, 2023 9:10am
Apex is more difficult and more expensive than other FX props. I see no advantage unless you are heavy scalper on Index Futures. I am sure now about this.
  • #25,910
  • Nov 10, 2023 9:32am Nov 10, 2023 9:32am
Quoting Trader191
{quote} lets be realistic: dont forget, you speak here not to the very good trading people (what ever people write about their success a lot of this earn less then in regular jobs and so are losers comparing with normal working people). the talented have all own private accounts traded very big, so their costs to switch to trading game prop would be crazy high. this here are more people with less good trading character (so cant take risk) , strategies without long term success , less experienced traders and so on. so this talented traders you speak...
100% disagree. The correct way to use these firms is to increase personal funding exponentially. If I can pay $500 for a challenge, flip the DD in stage 1 and 50% in stage 2, I'd have $1,500, instead I get the $500 refund and now have $10K loss to trade with...flip it again and with an 85-90% split, it's $8500-9,000, I would have $3K "non-withdrawable" (if I wish to continue tading) in a personal account. Instead, put the $8,500-9,000 in personal account
Repeat, scale, etc.....until the personal account is capable of hitting your profit goals. Point is, using these firms to fund the personal account gets it done 5-6x quicker than just trading in a personal account.
  • #25,911
  • Nov 10, 2023 9:35am Nov 10, 2023 9:35am
Quoting TrAndy1
Apex is more difficult and more expensive than other FX props. I see no advantage unless you are heavy scalper on Index Futures. I am sure now about this.
Agree. I investigated the rules of 12 Futures props last weekend. My conclusion is none of them are worth my time and effort. I can say confidently that even the oldest Futures prop Topstep does not have a single trader who can trade consistently and profitably for over 2 years.
  • #25,912
  • Nov 10, 2023 9:45am Nov 10, 2023 9:45am
Quoting ladder
{quote} Agree. I investigated the rules of 12 Futures props last weekend. My conclusion is none of them are worth my time and effort. I can say confidently that even the oldest Futures prop Topstep does not have a single trader who can trade consistently and profitably for over 2 years.
Right, but you don't need to be there 2 years.....let's use apex as an example as that is the only one I've used, 90% off pay $16.70 for 50K, let's just say 10 accounts for simplicity. Hit the 3K goal, pay the $85 or $140, make the $2600 and withdrawal the max 2000 and violate it. You just netted $18,983. Put it in a perosnal account. Rinse, repeat until personal account is funded enough to hit your goals.
  • #25,913
  • Nov 10, 2023 9:52am Nov 10, 2023 9:52am
Quoting pipmaster77
{quote} Right, but you don't need to be there 2 years.....let's use apex as an example as that is the only one I've used, 90% off pay $16.70 for 50K, let's just say 10 accounts for simplicity. Hit the 3K goal, pay the $85 or $140, make the $2600 and withdrawal the max 2000 and violate it. You just netted $18,983. Put it in a perosnal account. Rinse, repeat until personal account is funded enough to hit your goals.
But before you should be maxed out at FTMO; and ACG. Probably also at FXIFY (and FE) before you switch your strategy to Indices or trade on Apex, because the chances of a payout are less overall. Yes the payout chances at FXIFY are less than Apex, but you need to consider the higher difficulty to achieve any payout at Apex.
  • #25,914
  • Nov 10, 2023 9:54am Nov 10, 2023 9:54am
Quoting pipmaster77
{quote} Right, but you don't need to be there 2 years.....let's use apex as an example as that is the only one I've used, 90% off pay $16.70 for 50K, let's just say 10 accounts for simplicity. Hit the 3K goal, pay the $85 or $140, make the $2600 and withdrawal the max 2000 and violate it. You just netted $18,983. Put it in a perosnal account. Rinse, repeat until personal account is funded enough to hit your goals.
With trailing drawdown (some are even intraday equity trailing drawdown), your chance of success is way lower than you think.
  • #25,915
  • Nov 10, 2023 9:57am Nov 10, 2023 9:57am
Quoting TrAndy1
{quote} But before you should be maxed out at FTMO; and ACG. Probably also at FXIFY (and FE) before you switch your strategy to Indices or trade on Apex, because the chances of a payout are less overall. Yes the payout chances at FXIFY are less than Apex, but you need to consider the higher difficulty to achieve any payout at Apex.
I'm already funded at FTMO, TFF, TFTP and MFF. I've been trading futures at AMP. I am doing apex simply fo take a little bit of money and get 2000 % ROI where I'd only get 240% trading it on my own....it's literally 10 times more money, which I will then add to my AMP account.
I will not be adding any fx props until there is clarity on the future of the space.
  • #25,916
  • Nov 10, 2023 9:57am Nov 10, 2023 9:57am
Swing trading Forex is insane on Future props. You pay double the spread on trading minors via duplicating this over two major currency futures. Then you need to close your trade every day. So easy to pay 5 times more in fees than on any FX prop. You need to consider the higher trading cost. Only emini Index Futures is better. If anyone is trading micros the fees are already like a 0.45 to 0.50 spread on SP500 Index. That you can easily get also on FX props. Nothing trails there too. And trading the eminis is also very, very difficult on those 50k accounts at Apex, because you only have 50 points as DD for 1 future. On micros there is already no advantage anymore. Better to consider the best FX props. Then after that you can look at Apex. But for me, trading a different strategy on a different asset class is not much worth it. Better to fear a payout chance on FXIFY or FE than trading totally different, because there is also higher risk of failure involved. The hype on Apex is too much.
  • #25,917
  • Edited 10:12am Nov 10, 2023 9:59am | Edited 10:12am
Quoting ladder
{quote} With trailing drawdown (some are even intraday equity trailing drawdown), your chance of success is way lower than you think.
I agree. Just trying to hit and run for a 2000% ROI to deposit into my personal account. I mean 10 accounts at $16.70 each,$167, I've lost way more than that on one trade......if I can take $167 and parlay into $20K....great!!!!! If I can't, well, that's OK also, I'll give it 2-3 shots though.
  • #25,918
  • Nov 10, 2023 10:06am Nov 10, 2023 10:06am
Quoting pipmaster77
{quote} Right, but you don't need to be there 2 years.....let's use apex as an example as that is the only one I've used, 90% off pay $16.70 for 50K, let's just say 10 accounts for simplicity. Hit the 3K goal, pay the $85 or $140, make the $2600 and withdrawal the max 2000 and violate it. You just netted $18,983. Put it in a perosnal account. Rinse, repeat until personal account is funded enough to hit your goals.
Sorry for the newbie question, but if you withdraw 2000 from 2600 profit, you'd still have 600 profit so still an allowed drawdown of $500. Why would that violate the account?
Don't give up on your dreams. Keep sleeping.
  • #25,919
  • Nov 10, 2023 10:06am Nov 10, 2023 10:06am
Quoting TrAndy1
{quote} But before you should be maxed out at FTMO; and ACG. Probably also at FXIFY (and FE) before you switch your strategy to Indices or trade on Apex, because the chances of a payout are less overall. Yes the payout chances at FXIFY are less than Apex, but you need to consider the higher difficulty to achieve any payout at Apex.
FXIFY got more and more problems every week, we spotted this month ago, it's better to stay away.
  • #25,920
  • Edited 10:24am Nov 10, 2023 10:08am | Edited 10:24am
Quoting pipmaster77
{quote} 100% disagree. The correct way to use these firms is to increase personal funding exponentially. If I can pay $500 for a challenge, flip the DD in stage 1 and 50% in stage 2, I'd have $1,500, instead I get the $500 refund and now have $10K loss to trade with...flip it again and with an 85-90% split, it's $8500-9,000, I would have $3K "non-withdrawable" (if I wish to continue tading) in a personal account. Instead, put the $8,500-9,000 in personal account Repeat, scale, etc.....until the personal account is capable of hitting your profit...
when you are a very good trader, you would not have a big loss on end, some smaller drawdowns for sure all the time.

of course like i told, when at beginning or until medium level this special group of trading game people exist, that have advantages from prop trading games.

when you are a professional trader you have already many millions ( or lets say at least many 100k in account)! before an intelligent person would not call themself a very good trader, or he just dont know luck part or math to calculate value of a true edge (and then dont know the basics of trading too).

so a good trader will not have to build up personal account (because already done), that only happens when you are on a path to get a good trader (to reach your end or not). you get automatic rich on your path to a good trader, that so many forget (or you just are not there, so simple).
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