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  • #24,741
  • Oct 26, 2023 10:36am Oct 26, 2023 10:36am
Quoting Nsak3y
{quote}-I believe that Dubai's tax laws are changing. There are better options, especially if you are willing to renounce any citizenship status that subjects you to harsh tax laws. {quote}-Tax evasion is illegal. Tax avoidance is not. Moving to Puerto Rico (as a US citizen) can reduce your overall, taxable income, but there are better options.
Tell me more, what better options you have ? I just want to be informed despite I am not US citizen. So I have a better overview what is possible in this world.
  • #24,742
  • Oct 26, 2023 10:41am Oct 26, 2023 10:41am
Quoting TrAndy1
Tell me more, what better options you have ? I just want to be informed despite I am not US citizen. So I have a better overview what is possible in this world.
-This may depend on your country of origin and whether or not you are legally able to renounce your citizenship. Some countries may tax your income, even if you are living abroad. But to answer your question, there are countries with 0% tax, that also have citizenship-by-investment programs. I will not recommend any here, but you can do your research on it.

Dubai's tax law has changed, I believe, to something like 9% this year. But this is only applicable if you make something like >100k USD.
  • #24,743
  • Oct 26, 2023 10:43am Oct 26, 2023 10:43am
You can also see the difference on the real estate market. In Germany it is impossible to rent a flat higher than 10k per month. There are no offers beyond that. Usually the max. is around 5k. From 5k to 10k there are very rare numbers of any flats, regardless of the size of city or any location or whatsoever. Because there are no idiot rich people paying for higher rentals in the real estate market. You would laugh in NYC at Manhatten where you can rent up to at least 100k per month. The billionaires want to live in Manhattan. But no rich guy or family wants to live in Germany with a few exceptions of course. That is one big difference. If you have money from trading you cannot spent it on the real estate market. Even you cannot buy expensive penthouses or any houses in comparison to France, UK, USA for example. It is ridiculous low prices and of course what you get here in Germany, that opens the eyes when you made it as trader you cannot spend any of your money in the real estate market. So naturally you are forced to move out of this country to better lovely places. This was an eye-opener for me some years ago when I looked around...when you have some money left for living you simply cannot spend it here in Germany. Impossible. It is all built and intended for the (upper) middle class at maximum !
  • #24,744
  • Oct 26, 2023 10:47am Oct 26, 2023 10:47am
Quoting Nsak3y
{quote}-This may depend on your country of origin and whether or not you are legally able to renounce your citizenship. Some countries may tax your income, even if you are living abroad. But to answer your question, there are countries with 0% tax, that also have citizenship-by-investment programs. I will not recommend any here, but you can do your research on it. Dubai's tax law has changed, I believe, to something like 9% this year. But this is only applicable if you make something like >100k USD.
Only as business company in Dubai. You can simpley trade as private person and pay ZERO taxes like before. Just do not open your own hedge fund in Dubai. Simple as that.
  • #24,745
  • Oct 26, 2023 10:50am Oct 26, 2023 10:50am
Quoting TrAndy1
Only as business company in Dubai. You can simpley trade as private person and pay ZERO taxes like before. Just do not open your own hedge fund in Dubai. Simple as that.
-It is not as simple as that for everyone, my friend.
  • #24,746
  • Oct 26, 2023 10:56am Oct 26, 2023 10:56am
Even the german government put it into a law. That when you drive with an expensive sportscar or any expensive car in the city with no real intention just driving around you get punished by the police for being a "show-off". This is really the case. That is Germany here. They don't have only bad views they also put this into laws...
  • #24,747
  • Oct 26, 2023 10:57am Oct 26, 2023 10:57am
Quoting Nsak3y
{quote}-It is not as simple as that for everyone, my friend.
Why? Why you cannot trade as private person on any broker ? What is the problem ?
  • #24,748
  • Oct 26, 2023 11:03am Oct 26, 2023 11:03am
Quoting Fagin
{quote} No not confused at all, the "Prop" phrase is just marketing for affiliates and customers as FTMO describe. So what is it? They only provide services for simulated trading and educational trading tools. Still think you are a prop trader? Just trying to keeps things real. Unless things become more transparent and honest there is going to be another big fall, in EU this time. Think ESMA are happy the yanks get all the booty?
What I mean is that you're preaching to the choir. I never thought to be a prop trader. Read my older posts here. I'm a player in a game. Most others here understand the concept in the same way. "Prop" is just a fancy word which no one takes seriously. On the other hand though, it does not make every retail prop firm a scam just for using the word.
Money is made by sitting, not trading
  • #24,749
  • Oct 26, 2023 11:04am Oct 26, 2023 11:04am
Quoting TrAndy1
Even the german government put it into a law. That when you drive with an expensive sportscar or any expensive car in the city with no real intention just driving around you get punished by the police for being a "show-off". This is really the case. That is Germany here. They don't have only bad views they also put this into laws...
You do not believe this nonsense ? Here is it translated into English from a passage published from a big newspaper in Germany about this new law here :

"Some drivers may find driving around the city aimlessly relaxing - but that's not actually allowed. It generates avoidable noise and avoidable exhaust fumes. If people feel bothered by a car that constantly drives up and down a street, for example, it can cost the driver 20 euros. The avoidable exhaust emissions also come into play when the engine is started in the morning in winter and the ice is then calmly removed from the windows - avoidable noise and unnecessary exhaust emissions can cost the driver 10 euros."

Of course if you drive with your old cheap car around noone bothers. But when you drive with a new sportscar you get unwanted attention and then get fined easily here for driving around. Then you need to tell the police why you are forced to drive with your car here and there. Or you pay the fine.
  • #24,750
  • Oct 26, 2023 11:05am Oct 26, 2023 11:05am
Quoting Fagin
{quote} That is the whole point of this discussion. They are NOT regulated by anyone.
Thanks God they are NOT. Regulation is evil.
Money is made by sitting, not trading
  • #24,751
  • Oct 26, 2023 11:16am Oct 26, 2023 11:16am
Quoting TrAndy1
Why? Why you cannot trade as private person on any broker ? What is the problem ?
-It is not a matter of trading as a private person with any broker, but a matter of trading without any tax liabilities. As mentioned, some countries require you to report and remit on any taxable income, even if it is generated from outside of your country of origin, depending on certain circumstances. This is why renunciation is mentioned as a possible consideration for some.
  • #24,752
  • Oct 26, 2023 11:24am Oct 26, 2023 11:24am
Quoting Nsak3y
{quote}-It is not a matter of trading as a private person with any broker, but a matter of trading without any tax liabilities. As mentioned, some countries require you to report and remit on any taxable income, even if it is generated from outside of your country of origin, depending on certain circumstances. This is why renunciation is mentioned as a possible consideration for some.
Ahh...ok, this is USA nonsense. I understand.
  • #24,753
  • Oct 26, 2023 11:31am Oct 26, 2023 11:31am
Quoting Vitore
{quote} What I mean is that you're preaching to the choir. I never thought to be a prop trader. Read my older posts here. I'm a player in a game. Most others here understand the concept in the same way. "Prop" is just a fancy word which no one takes seriously. On the other hand though, it does not make every retail prop firm a scam just for using the word.
I think you have misunderstood the context of the quote, it was a reply to TrAndy1 who referenced proprietary trading companies, I was trying to point out the differences, same with the regulation debate.

It's important that anyone reading this thread needing information about who they are going to give their money to are under no illusion what this is about and not to confuse this potential opportunity or risk with another. Let's try and keep things very clear.

As you have mentioned this is a game and we are players.

Trade well
  • #24,754
  • Oct 26, 2023 11:34am Oct 26, 2023 11:34am
Quoting TrAndy1
{quote} Only as business company in Dubai. You can simpley trade as private person and pay ZERO taxes like before. Just do not open your own hedge fund in Dubai. Simple as that.
Of course, there are many possibilities if you are ready to move to another country for the sake of cutting your taxes. But I think very few people are willing to do that.
Don't give up on your dreams. Keep sleeping.
  • #24,755
  • Oct 26, 2023 11:39am Oct 26, 2023 11:39am
Quoting TrAndy1
{quote} You do not believe this nonsense ? Here is it translated into English from a passage published from a big newspaper in Germany about this new law here : "Some drivers may find driving around the city aimlessly relaxing - but that's not actually allowed. It generates avoidable noise and avoidable exhaust fumes. If people feel bothered by a car that constantly drives up and down a street, for example, it can cost the driver 20 euros. The avoidable exhaust emissions also come into play when the engine is started in the morning in winter and...
That's why I admire the French, they wouldn't put up with that shite..!
  • #24,756
  • Oct 26, 2023 11:50am Oct 26, 2023 11:50am
Quoting Fagin
{quote} That's why I admire the French, they wouldn't put up with that shite..!
What I like in the UK also in Germany is that there is no wealth tax at least. Look across Europe, if you are rich in Spain, Italy, or France you pay a lot of wealth taxes!
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https://taxfoundation.org/data/all/e...x-europe-2023/


Net Wealth Taxes
Norway levies a net wealth tax of 0.95 percent on individuals’ wealth stocks exceeding NOK 1.7 million (EUR 140,000 or USD 160,000), with 0.7 percent going to municipalities and 0.25 percent to the central government. Norway’s net wealth tax dates to 1892. Additionally, for net wealth exceeding NOK 20 million (USD 1.87 million), the tax rate is 1.1 percent.
Spain’s net wealth tax is a progressive tax ranging from 0.2 percent to 3.75 percent on wealth stocks above EUR 700,000 (USD 771,530; lower in some regions), with rates varying substantially across Spain’s autonomous regions (Madrid and Andalusia offer 100 percent relief). Spanish residents are subject to the tax on a worldwide basis while nonresidents pay the tax only on assets located in Spain.
Additionally, the Spanish central government introduced a “solidarity wealth tax” ranging from 1.7 percent to 3.5 percent on individuals with net assets exceeding EUR 3 million (USD 3.31 million) for 2022 and 2023. Under this new scheme, the central government collects any additional revenue from the solidarity tax once the regional wealth tax collection is deducted. This wealth tax will affect not only taxpayers in Andalusia and Madrid, but all taxpayers that live in a region that approved a higher tax exemption threshold or lower tax rates than the ones established by the central government.
Switzerland levies its net wealth tax at the cantonal level and covers worldwide assets (except real estate and permanent establishments located abroad). The tax rates and allowances vary significantly across cantons. The Swiss net wealth tax was first implemented in 1840.
Wealth Taxes on Selected Assets
France abolished its net wealth tax in 2018 and replaced it that year with a real estate wealth tax. French tax residents whose net worldwide real estate assets are valued at or above EUR 1.3 million (USD 1.43 million) are subject to the tax, as well as non-French tax residents whose net real estate assets located in France are valued at or above EUR 1.3 million. Depending on the net value of the real estate assets, the tax rate ranges as much as 1.5 percent.
Italy taxes financial assets held abroad without Italian intermediaries by individual resident taxpayers at 0.2 percent. In addition, real estate properties held abroad by Italian tax residents are taxed at 0.76 percent.
Since 2021, Belgium has had a solidarity tax or tax on securities accounts (TSA) of 0.15 percent on securities accounts with an average value of EUR 1 million (USD 1.1 million).
In the Netherlands, the value of net wealth (excluding primary residence and substantial interests in companies) is included in the income tax, with effective tax rates ranging from 0.56 percent to 1.78 percent. Nevertheless, in 2021, the Dutch Supreme Court ruled that this system violates European Law regarding property rights and non-discrimination. In 2022, an alternative system was proposed where each asset category—savings, debts, and others—would have its own deemed return. 2022 was a transition year where taxpayers had to choose under which system (the old system or the new proposal) they preferred to be taxed.
While wealth taxes collect little revenue, an OECD report argues that these taxes can also disincentivize entrepreneurship, harming innovation and long-term growth. In practice, the recent wealth tax developments have pushed Spain’s regional governments to appeal the “solidarity wealth tax” to the Constitutional Court. Additionally, Norway approved a higher exit tax as billionaires are fleeing the country. Instead of reforming and hiking the wealth tax, perhaps policymakers should consider whether the tax is serving its intended objectives, and, if not, consider repealing the tax altogether.
  • #24,757
  • Oct 26, 2023 11:58am Oct 26, 2023 11:58am
List of countries with zero tax rates from personal income, see here : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...s_by_tax_rates

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  • #24,758
  • Oct 26, 2023 12:03pm Oct 26, 2023 12:03pm
So either you can live on an isle or if you want to live in a first world country then there is only Monaco or VAE left with (almost) zero taxes.

But that does not mean you need to stay all days in a year there. For example VAE has the law you need to stay 1 day out of every 180 days to still have their residency.

Then you can travel around the world but no longer stay than 3 months in any country to be sure that you do not get taxed there. That is all you need to maximise trading income.
  • #24,759
  • Oct 26, 2023 12:06pm Oct 26, 2023 12:06pm
Quoting TrAndy1
{quote} What I like in the UK also in Germany is that there is no wealth tax at least. Look across Europe, if you are rich in Spain, Italy, or France you pay a lot of wealth taxes! {image} https://taxfoundation.org/data/all/e...x-europe-2023/ Net Wealth Taxes Norway levies a net wealth tax of 0.95 percent on individuals’ wealth stocks exceeding NOK 1.7 million (EUR 140,000 or USD 160,000), with 0.7 percent going to municipalities and 0.25 percent to the central government. Norway’s net wealth tax dates to 1892. Additionally,...
Let's not get into politics but I'm glad we are out of the EU experiment. I am though sad I can't just move to another EU country without jumping through the visa hoops now.

For me it is going to be Portugal, Greece or Thailand when I sought my business out here in the UK. It's too damn miserable in winter time to endure much longer!

PS tax isn't always a bad thing as long as it is used well by those who take it.
  • #24,760
  • Oct 26, 2023 12:20pm Oct 26, 2023 12:20pm
Quoting TrAndy1
So either you can live on an isle or if you want to live in a first world country then there is only Monaco or VAE left with (almost) zero taxes. But that does not mean you need to stay all days in a year there. For example VAE has the law you need to stay 1 day out of every 180 days to still have their residency. Then you can travel around the world but no longer stay than 3 months in any country to be sure that you do not get taxed there. That is all you need to maximise trading income.
will not work with german passport!
then you need to stay at least half of a year somewhere to get taxed there, or you get taxed in germany in minimum next 10 years after leaving.
germany is not same like with coming from other countries.
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