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  • #24,201
  • Oct 15, 2023 10:48pm Oct 15, 2023 10:48pm
It is not the reason that CFTC wants to regulate all and wants everything to be traded on an exchange because of taking the fees for their own. It is more because of the conlict of interests. If any FX broker is doing all b-booking like Gain Capital for example especially in the older days. There were rumors here that they kicked out every profitable trader who made more than 5k or 10k profits. They just showed those traders the door. That can be only the case on such FX brokers. Because on futures brokers everything goes through an exchange and the broker is not taking the other side of the trade. I think there have been more bucket shops on FX brokers in the past too. It is not only Gain Capital. There was running gag saying that the word Gain Capital comes from when you loose they gain. But when you gain you get just kicked out from the broker. Such a behavior cannot be tolerated and there was like the prop firms today too many shady FX brokers around without doing A-booking properly. Such conflicts of interests the CFTC and US regulators could not tolerate. I think that is the dominant reason for banning most FX brokers in the USA. But I also think the have been overdoing too much here. There is no FX industry anymore in the US, which is not in the best interest of all traders as there are missing options, what can be traded. That is my opinion on that.
  • #24,202
  • Oct 15, 2023 11:15pm Oct 15, 2023 11:15pm
From what I'm seeing & hearing from traders the FX brokers that are currently left for USA clients are nothing more than as the saying goes "bucket shops" trading against their clients & pulling other shady tricks that you most likely want experience in the futures arena. So, if that being the case why hasn't the regulators closed the remaining shops in the U.S.?
  • #24,203
  • Oct 15, 2023 11:38pm Oct 15, 2023 11:38pm
Quoting TrAndy1
It is not the reason that CFTC wants to regulate all and wants everything to be traded on an exchange because of taking the fees for their own. It is more because of the conlict of interests. If any FX broker is doing all b-booking like Gain Capital for example especially in the older days. There were rumors here that they kicked out every profitable trader who made more than 5k or 10k profits. They just showed those traders the door. That can be only the case on such FX brokers. Because on futures brokers everything goes through an exchange and...
But Oanda and Gain are two of the biggest bucket shops on the planet....both registered with the CFTC. Why does the CFTC not do their job and regulate?
  • #24,204
  • Oct 15, 2023 11:46pm Oct 15, 2023 11:46pm
Quoting TrAndy1
It is not the reason that CFTC wants to regulate all and wants everything to be traded on an exchange because of taking the fees for their own. It is more because of the conlict of interests. If any FX broker is doing all b-booking like Gain Capital for example especially in the older days. There were rumors here that they kicked out every profitable trader who made more than 5k or 10k profits. They just showed those traders the door. That can be only the case on such FX brokers. Because on futures brokers everything goes through an exchange and the broker is not taking the other side of the trade. I think there have been more bucket shops on FX brokers in the past too. It is not only Gain Capital. There was running gag saying that the word Gain Capital comes from when you loose they gain. But when you gain you get just kicked out from the broker. Such a behavior cannot be tolerated and there was like the prop firms today too many shady FX brokers around without doing A-booking properly. Such conflicts of interests the CFTC and US regulators could not tolerate. I think that is the dominant reason for banning most FX brokers in the USA. But I also think the have been overdoing too much here. There is no FX industry anymore in the US, which is not in the best interest of all traders as there are missing options, what can be traded. That is my opinion on that.
-These conflicts of interest exist and are allowed within the current, regulatory framework. And props are not banned from the US, it's just that most choose not to operate here or provide services to US residents because compliance has become too costly and burdensome for most to even consider it. Over-regulation has become a big problem and many here have speculated about the reasoning for it.

Taking trades against traders is not illegal. Nor is kicking good traders out, so long as you pay them what you owe them. Any business (at least, here in the states) can refuse service to customers at their own discretion, so long as they do not discriminate against any protected class (race, religion, nationality etc.).

Similar with casinos, the house can bet against you, and that's fine, so long as they are not cheating. They can even ban you from their casinos if you are too good, so long as they pay you what you rightfully earned. If you cheated, then obviously, they can refuse. Same with trading.

News spreads fast in this space. If word gets out that a broker is scamming people, then traders will just stop using that broker. There are a handful of sites that are used for monitoring these things and for sharing information. Many unregulated brokers have maintained a fairly good track record for years. There are always the oddball stories that you hear about, but that comes with the territory. You mitigate risk, accordingly.

I think that regulation often provides a false sense of security for people. If a business scams a lot of people, then usually, people want to advocate for regulation or some form of heavy justice to stop it from happening again and/or so that they can get their money back. The problem is, reality rarely happens that way (and there are no guarantees of anything), even in heavily-regulated jurisdictions.

What ends up actually happening is more regulation. Which almost always hurts honest businesses/customers by making things more difficult, restrictive and expensive etc.. The idea of regulation stopping criminals or protecting client funds is a joke. That's what criminals do, they break laws, so having more laws isn't going to change that. Just like having restrictive gun-ownership laws isn't going to stop criminals from having guns. It's silly to even think about.

Certainly, if regulatory groups really wanted to ensure that customer funds were always protected, then legislation could be passed to require various escrow and insurance pools for all investment-related businesses. But would that really be a good idea? It would probably mean much less privacy and personal control, much more costs, much more waiting, much less opportunities et al.. It always circles back to the old idea of giving up freedom for security.
  • #24,205
  • Oct 16, 2023 12:10am Oct 16, 2023 12:10am
Quoting navk
{quote} DO You have account with goat funded trader ? How are they ?
I never tested GFT. I don't like this:
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  • #24,206
  • Oct 16, 2023 12:47am Oct 16, 2023 12:47am
Quoting Capablanca
{quote} Update 2: - Just received the Alpha wire requested this morning. This confirms what I suspected when I had troubles with Wise: Alpha is indeed paying fast and was able to adapt quite fast to Deel kick out. So, right now I'm only waiting for E8/Plane, wherever the money is.
Update 3:

I got finally the wire from Plane regarding E8 payout. It took a week. Too much IMO.

No more payouts pending right now.
  • #24,207
  • Edited 3:18am Oct 16, 2023 2:12am | Edited 3:18am
Quoting pipmaster77
{quote} But Oanda and Gain are two of the biggest bucket shops on the planet....both registered with the CFTC. Why does the CFTC not do their job and regulate?
As I know they regularly get fined from US regulators. Here is one example. And they are strict. That is why these brokers needs high spreads because of high cost doing this business including all the fines from regulators incoming regularly. I think they can only survive because there is no competition in the USA. Otherwise there are much better broker out there for non-US people. Just see here for an example of a fine: https://fxnewsgroup.com/forex-news/r...nes-in-the-us/
  • #24,208
  • Oct 16, 2023 8:12am Oct 16, 2023 8:12am
IC Markets just opened a mauritius company to serve european clients as we can only open under ic markets cysec, they were losing business to other brokers offering more leverage to european traders
  • #24,209
  • Oct 16, 2023 9:15am Oct 16, 2023 9:15am
Quoting DeltaCapital
IC Markets just opened a mauritius company to serve european clients as we can only open under ic markets cysec, they were losing business to other brokers offering more leverage to european traders
what is the url for the mauritius division ?
  • #24,210
  • Oct 16, 2023 9:21am Oct 16, 2023 9:21am
Quoting Stoneyrocks
{quote} what is the url for the mauritius division ?
ictrading.com i asked icmarkets live chat if is owned by them this was their response:
IC Trading is a different company. They use same liquidity providers as IC Markets hence we can confirm it's a legit company.

So it looks its them but different company, maybe they changing name to IC Trading
  • #24,211
  • Oct 16, 2023 9:29am Oct 16, 2023 9:29am
Quoting Capablanca
{quote} I never tested GFT. I don't like this: {image}
When someone originally mentioned GFT I saw that statement in their FAQ and immediately crossed them off my list of firms never to be used.
Pride always comes before destruction.... -Proverbs 16:18
  • #24,212
  • Oct 16, 2023 11:04am Oct 16, 2023 11:04am
Quoting DeltaCapital
{quote} ictrading.com i asked icmarkets live chat if is owned by them this was their response: IC Trading is a different company. They use same liquidity providers as IC Markets hence we can confirm it's a legit company. So it looks its them but different company, maybe they changing name to IC Trading
Actually I do not understand why there is IC Markets on Seychelles a bit north of Mauritius and then another company IC Trading (who are the owners ?) at Mauritius. At a first glance it does not make any sense as they are both very near located. See the maps below. What are the reasons behind, as I do not get it ?
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I mean living in Euro area they advised me to Seychelles with full leverage. So I had no trouble at IC Markets. But I never heard that it is not allowed to go to Seychelles directly as European, so why the need for a Mauritius entity ? Anyone has more info on that ?
  • #24,213
  • Oct 16, 2023 11:16am Oct 16, 2023 11:16am
Quoting TrAndy1
{quote}I mean living in Euro area they advised me to Seychelles with full leverage. So I had no trouble at IC Markets. But I never heard that it is not allowed to go to Seychelles directly as European, so why the need for a Mauritius entity ? Anyone has more info on that ?
I cannot register new user profile with their Seychelles entity, I have to go to EU with low leverage (luckily I still have my old profiles with them which they allow me to keep so far)
Money is made by sitting, not trading
  • #24,214
  • Oct 16, 2023 11:20am Oct 16, 2023 11:20am
Quoting Vitore
{quote} I cannot register new user profile with their Seychelles entity, I have to go to EU with low leverage (luckily I still have my old profiles with them which they allow me to keep so far)
That is only an IP issue. If you get recognized from Euro area you get directed to EU website of IC Markets, but you can deny autotransferring and go to global website. In that case you have Seychelles entity and can open an account here. I mean if IC Trading is not the same owner or sister company, is it because of reasons of liability?
  • #24,215
  • Oct 16, 2023 11:36am Oct 16, 2023 11:36am
Quoting TrAndy1
{quote} That is only an IP issue. If you get recognized from Euro area you get directed to EU website of IC Markets, but you can deny autotransferring and go to global website. In that case you have Seychelles entity and can open an account here. I mean if IC Trading is not the same owner or sister company, is it because of reasons of liability?
It used to work like that but not anymore (at least for me). I cannot deny the auto-transfer. I didn't try using VPN as I need to fill in my country of residence so, in the end, they would deny me based on that anyway (confirmed with their customer support)

Actually one of them advised me not even trying. I assume they could cancel my existing accounts eventually
Money is made by sitting, not trading
  • #24,216
  • Oct 16, 2023 11:38am Oct 16, 2023 11:38am
Quoting TrAndy1
{quote} That is only an IP issue. If you get recognized from Euro area you get directed to EU website of IC Markets, but you can deny autotransferring and go to global website. In that case you have Seychelles entity and can open an account here. I mean if IC Trading is not the same owner or sister company, is it because of reasons of liability?
I wonder if you use a VPN for registration (so that you are not auto direct for the EU site) if they allow people from europe to register there. Because at some point you have to state nationality and this may cause them to say you're not allowed and to go for the EU site.

(I still have my old login international with 1:500 so I hope I can it)
  • #24,217
  • Oct 16, 2023 11:46am Oct 16, 2023 11:46am
No new traders are allowed in seychelles branch of ic markets, thats why they open mauritius because mauritius dont require them to force accept european in cysec regulation, if a broker has cysec regulation they need to take their europe clients there, thats why ic markets is opening ic trading maritius a different company to not lose market share to other brokers like eightcap ect, they know newbie traders want high leverage
  • #24,218
  • Oct 16, 2023 11:50am Oct 16, 2023 11:50am
Quoting TrAndy1
{quote} That is only an IP issue. If you get recognized from Euro area you get directed to EU website of IC Markets, but you can deny autotransferring and go to global website. In that case you have Seychelles entity and can open an account here. I mean if IC Trading is not the same owner or sister company, is it because of reasons of liability?
Probably is separated of icmarkets, because they cant take clients from europe only from cysec branch and they open that one separated to avoid problems with cysec
  • #24,219
  • Oct 16, 2023 11:58am Oct 16, 2023 11:58am
No luck for US traders, regardless, presumably...
  • #24,220
  • Oct 16, 2023 12:18pm Oct 16, 2023 12:18pm
Quoting Nsak3y
No luck for US traders, regardless, presumably...
Only unregulated brokers for US or forex.com or Oanda eheh
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