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  • #20,841
  • Sep 6, 2023 5:33am Sep 6, 2023 5:33am
Quoting Dirac
{quote} https://support.apextraderfunding.co...accounts-live- Are performance accounts live? We use live data for performance accounts. Initially they are in SIM but you still get paid the same way this is because many traders may blow a performance account quickly. So this is done to protect the company and you as a customer. Once we see consistency we copy the trades via api in a prop account. Once we see long term consistency you are placed into a live prop account.
https://support.apextraderfunding.co...s-Professional

Non-Professional Versus Professional
Most traders are Non-professional and this means your data fees are included. It's an additional $115 per calendar month per exchange you must pay on top of any other fees if you choose Professional. Knowing this, make sure to not choose Professional when you open Rithmic the first time, unless you are a Professional Trader.
  • #20,842
  • Sep 6, 2023 5:33am Sep 6, 2023 5:33am
Quoting Dirac
{quote} https://support.apextraderfunding.co...accounts-live- Are performance accounts live? We use live data for performance accounts. Initially they are in SIM but you still get paid the same way this is because many traders may blow a performance account quickly. So this is done to protect the company and you as a customer. Once we see consistency we copy the trades via api in a prop account. Once we see long term consistency you are placed into a live prop account.
Apex uses a live data feed from exchanges... ok.... how do they handle execution & slippage in simulation? It's the exact same thing as MFF with ever worse rules (intraday equity trailing drawdown & +5% to withdraw) setup for most traders to fail to collect the pool of fees to pay the winning traders. >99% of Apex traders are very likely on simulation and NEVER get to a live futures account just like >99% of MFF traders never get to live STP.
  • #20,843
  • Sep 6, 2023 5:37am Sep 6, 2023 5:37am
So, if MFF is gone, or going to be gone who is next up as the best or near best. I have an interest in E8 Funding. Welcome any views & comments on E8 or one better.
  • #20,844
  • Sep 6, 2023 5:39am Sep 6, 2023 5:39am
Quoting CableJ
{quote} Apex uses a live data feed from exchanges... ok.... how do they handle execution & slippage in simulation? It's the exact same thing as MFF with ever worse rules (intraday equity trailing drawdown & +5% to withdraw) setup for the trader to fail. >99% of Apex traders are very likely on simulation and NEVER get to a live futures account just like >99% of MFF traders never get to live STP.
Afraid I don't know the answers to your questions, best directed to Apex I would think.
  • #20,845
  • Edited 8:01am Sep 6, 2023 5:52am | Edited 8:01am
Quoting Dirac
{quote} Afraid I don't know the answers to your questions, best directed to Apex I would think.

Apex 50K accounts have a lot limit of 10 contracts. If I have 20 Apex accounts placing 10 dow mini contracts each for a total of 200 contracts filled @ once... the Dow mini only has 10-15 contracts available 1-2 levels deep in market depth! There is no way 200 contracts would be filled without being slipped to hell in the real market.

It's clearly obvious that Apex's trading environment is completely fake & simulated just like MFF!
  • #20,846
  • Sep 6, 2023 5:57am Sep 6, 2023 5:57am
What are your thoughts on fundedNext?
Risk comes from not knowing what to do
  • #20,847
  • Sep 6, 2023 6:04am Sep 6, 2023 6:04am
Quoting acetrader
So, if MFF is gone, or going to be gone who is next up as the best or near best. I have an interest in E8 Funding. Welcome any views & comments on E8 or one better.
E8 is in the united states.. until there is clarity around the MFF case, I would completely avoid all US & Canada firms.
  • #20,848
  • Sep 6, 2023 6:09am Sep 6, 2023 6:09am
Quoting acetrader
So, if MFF is gone, or going to be gone who is next up as the best or near best. I have an interest in E8 Funding. Welcome any views & comments on E8 or one better.
E8 is USA based and should be avoided (as with the funded trader, top tier trader etc)

From my point of view there is no good alternative prop firm (with a 8% profit target) to MFF - and that is why there is so much anger at what happened.

Many of the non US based prop firms either have gotchas to catch traders out or do not have a solid enough reputation yet.

Though after saying all of the above I do need to put my funds somewhere - for now TFF will be temporary replacement for MFF until I can find something better.
Your worst drawdown is yet to come
  • #20,849
  • Sep 6, 2023 6:36am Sep 6, 2023 6:36am
Quoting nebby
{quote} E8 is USA based and should be avoided (as with the funded trader, top tier trader etc) From my point of view there is no good alternative prop firm (with a 8% profit target) to MFF - and that is why there is so much anger at what happened. Many of the non US based prop firms either have gotchas to catch traders out or do not have a solid enough reputation yet.
Why not FTMO?
  • #20,850
  • Sep 6, 2023 6:44am Sep 6, 2023 6:44am
The thing is all prop firms no matter were they located, if they sell to US citizens they are at risk of CFTC suing them, and from a new i saw from 23rd august firms have 60 days to respond and 365 days to comply with CFTC laws, so in a year maybe prop firms will not be avaiable to US citizens or maybe only futures
  • #20,851
  • Sep 6, 2023 6:44am Sep 6, 2023 6:44am
To identify the real scams:
Check out Oanda's price feed on the EUR/USD this morning. There was a spike to 1.0748 on the real market and literally every single "prop scam" and "scam offshore bucket shop broker" shows the exact same spike. Where is it on regulated, trustworthy Oanda's feed? It seems that regulated US brokers are the real scam.
  • #20,852
  • Sep 6, 2023 6:57am Sep 6, 2023 6:57am
Quoting lynnc
{quote}Why not FTMO?
Because they have a 10% profit target and I prioritize firms with an 8% target (BTW I do have an ftmo funded account) which is easier for me to achieve in a reasonable timeframe.

Also FTMO slightly annoys me with the way I have to trade a new account after every profit split.
Your worst drawdown is yet to come
  • #20,853
  • Sep 6, 2023 7:02am Sep 6, 2023 7:02am
Quoting noox
To identify the real scams: Check out Oanda's price feed on the EUR/USD this morning. There was a spike to 1.0748 on the real market and literally every single "prop scam" and "scam offshore bucket shop broker" shows the exact same spike. Where is it on regulated, trustworthy Oanda's feed? It seems that regulated US brokers are the real scam.
I traded with Oanda before going offshore in 09 and they were notorious for widening the spread on report release 30-50 pips not for seconds but for 1-2 min even on some non impact reports. This was before they launched a raw commissions based feed that I have no personal experience trading.
  • #20,854
  • Sep 6, 2023 7:03am Sep 6, 2023 7:03am
Quoting nebby
{quote} Also FTMO slightly annoys me with the way I have to trade a new account after every profit split.
??? what do you have to do different?
  • #20,855
  • Sep 6, 2023 7:08am Sep 6, 2023 7:08am
Quoting CableJ
{quote} ??? what do you have to do different?
I copy trade between lots of different accounts (based on account number). So with every new account I have to reconfigure it. Its only a small task but still an annoyance I don't have with other prop firms.
Your worst drawdown is yet to come
  • #20,856
  • Sep 6, 2023 7:24am Sep 6, 2023 7:24am
Quoting nebby
{quote} I copy trade between lots of different accounts (based on account number). So with every new account I have to reconfigure it. Its only a small task but still an annoyance I don't have with other prop firms.
Oh that, yes it's annoying! I have all my accounts (personal & prop) linked to a FXblue portfolio and I have to do the same.
  • #20,857
  • Sep 6, 2023 7:52am Sep 6, 2023 7:52am
Quoting Expo33
{quote} I got some cheap deals $77 for 10K with The Funded Trader $50 for 10K with My Funded FX 29$ for 6K with The Funded Engineer City Trader Imperium had a 100K for $400 Lots of deals
What code for My funded FX?? I thought it was available till 31.08.23
  • #20,858
  • Sep 6, 2023 8:04am Sep 6, 2023 8:04am
Quoting Takisd
{quote} Traders not trading their own capital comes from 2 elements in my opinion. 1) They don't have capital....
This is where I find myself. In the US, perhaps missed the prop firm boat. Actually, I passed a challenge with Digital Pit in January 2022 and then they folded. Wrong choice, that. Developed mindset issues trying to make 10% a month. Deep into 2023 I am ready 'enough' -- and now whammo!

I lack capital. I can funnel a prop firm fee ($300) for a $50k challenge I had planned to buy into a new (old) account with Oanda. Risk 5% ($15). Close 2R ($30). Whoo. How many good trades will it take to add up and pay a bill? (I usually risk .5%.)

Perhaps I'd be better off trying an offshore firm mentioned earlier. Dilemma, dilemma. Hoping the CFTC does not penalize US traders.
  • #20,859
  • Sep 6, 2023 8:12am Sep 6, 2023 8:12am
Quoting nebby
{quote} Many of the non-US-based prop firms either have gotchas to catch traders out or do not have a solid enough reputation yet..
5ers? Founded 2016. Registered in UK and Israel. One of their LPs is Interactive Brokers in Connecticut per the video the CEO did a couple days ago. Limited to $100k max account before scaling on two-step High Stakes program as I understand it (my info may be wrong).
  • #20,860
  • Sep 6, 2023 8:23am Sep 6, 2023 8:23am
Quoting Artcool
{quote} I think we all agree about it. But the question is should we close our eyes about their shady practices because they offer us the opportunity that you explained so well, by fear that the business would not be profitable enough for them without these practices ? Or should we be demanding by doing due diligence because this business would still be profitable for them if they are honest with their clients. Ok...maybe they would make just 200 M$ profits in a couple of years instead of +300...but it's still good money for them, right? And what...
No we shouldn't close our eyes to shady practices or accept mis-truth, clearly MFF have been caught out to a certain point by their own arrogance and incompetence.
We also aren't naïve enough to think you can complete due diligence in this industry that would satisfy all criteria of regulation, it just isn't going to happen, prop, futures, spot forex, CFDs, you name it.

In a sense some good may come out of this as there are far too many con men (and women) that have jumped on board with a 6 month window to rip people off, I think this is criminal and they should be caught and bagged up somewhere dark. However freezing MFF up who were paying, what does that achieve apart from opening the market up to more ponzi bucket shops? But I'll say this, if you are stupid enough to give these idiots your money then you don't deserve regulation/protection just go to a casino and complain to the gaming commission after you've lost your car or home... (not a $100 buck sign on fee..)

I watched the 5ers on youtube and was very surprised by their reaction in public when questioned about their business model, guess what? It's the same, only they think they are immune from CFTC....

If I was running a prop I'd be completely clear in saying, this is simulated and we are paying you for simulated performance from fees accrued from the losers. It only works out if we continue to accrue failure fees in greater numbers than paying out the simulated performance, up until that point we pay you. Long term view would be...?

IF prop firms really wanted pro traders the model wouldn't be how it was and not quite how it is now. If they are genuine they will change the proposal and they'll need to do it very fast, but my money is on the conmen and bucket shops pulling in that sucker a minute until they get shut down...
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