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  • #20,521
  • Sep 4, 2023 9:39am Sep 4, 2023 9:39am
Quoting Capablanca
{image} My first reaction was to laugh at this. Then I though about Madoff. Not sure if everybody is aware but in Madoff case they tried to return the maximum they could. BUT.... Let's say that each one should receive 65% (losing the other 35%). What they did was to look in the past records for people that received more than these 65% or people that received everything and closed their accounts. And asked them to return the money above this 65%, threating with a legal case. They were able to collect a lot of money from some people. That was a ponzi,...
i doubt that s possible, as we re contractors not investors, u was hired to do a job and u got paid after, just like goin to the factory to work. and i think it states just that in the contract.
  • #20,522
  • Sep 4, 2023 9:43am Sep 4, 2023 9:43am
Quoting 1odi
{quote} i doubt that s possible, as we re contractors not investors, u was hired to do a job and u got paid after, just like goin to the factory to work. and i think it states just that in the contract.
I agree, but right now I'm not sure of anything. We're dealing with a videogame industry being sued by a financial regulator. What else can we see ?
  • #20,523
  • Sep 4, 2023 9:45am Sep 4, 2023 9:45am
Quoting Capablanca
{quote} Funny that you say this because in my notes about scaling in FXIFY I have this: "25% balance when 10% is gain in 3 months. Thereafter the balance is doubled up where 10% gain is achieved in 3 months (to a max of 10x initial balance)" And I'm sure I copy / pasted this from their site or FAQs. Now I don't find it anymore so I'm not sure if it's still in place...
I actually screenshoted the response from the live chat staff a few days ago 'cause I can never trust prop firms 100% haha

Especially when fxify doesn't list out their scale up plan on their website black and white. Anyway here's the screenshot. I am really tempted to add fxify on my list since a few people here showed they got an actual payout from them and short waiting time. But with their too-good-to-be-true scale up plan, I wonder if they can still make a profit while delivering big payouts on time, especially after the MFF thing...some prop firms might really push the STP thing.

Hope fxify would update their website soon
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: fxify.png Size: 474 KB
memento mori
  • #20,524
  • Sep 4, 2023 9:46am Sep 4, 2023 9:46am
Quoting Capablanca
{image} My first reaction was to laugh at this. Then I though about Madoff. Not sure if everybody is aware but in Madoff case they tried to return the maximum they could. BUT.... Let's say that each one should receive 65% (losing the other 35%). What they did was to look in the past records for people that received more than these 65% or people that received everything and closed their accounts. And asked them to return the money above this 65%, threating with a legal case. They were able to collect a lot of money from some people. That was a ponzi,...
let s think of it this way. u wanna sign up as a contractor with a prop. which firm is gonna show u their books, backend, licences and so on to put ur mind at ease?
do u think the discord moderators have anything to do with this for instance? they are just contracters, paid to do a job. they moderate, u trade. Also, if i recall corectly, in a youtube interview,i think the CEO said or implied that they win when traders win, and that traders are pushed to live markets. if u must blame some1,i doubt it s 1 of the contracters
  • #20,525
  • Sep 4, 2023 9:47am Sep 4, 2023 9:47am
Quoting Capablanca
{image} My first reaction was to laugh at this. Then I though about Madoff. Not sure if everybody is aware but in Madoff case they tried to return the maximum they could. BUT.... Let's say that each one should receive 65% (losing the other 35%). What they did was to look in the past records for people that received more than these 65% or people that received everything and closed their accounts. And asked them to return the money above this 65%, threating with a legal case. They were able to collect a lot of money from some people. That was a ponzi,...
He is kind of right. But I actually believe in the end it will come out that MFF didn't do what is being accused, but the prop industry will still get screwed. No matter how many people post love letters or whatever.

The returning the money element isnt going to happen because of jurisdiction. So thats just silly.

If I was a broker facilitating prop firms right now I would be in my lawyers office 24 hours a day planning on what to do if the CFTC comes for facilitating US citizens to trade leveraged OTC products.
  • #20,526
  • Sep 4, 2023 9:48am Sep 4, 2023 9:48am
Quoting navk
{quote} FXIFY has very good scale up. On 10 % profirt every three months : 100k 125k 250k 500k 1 Million
Agree. That and the short waiting time, not based in US or Canada, evidence of people getting actual payouts here...now just hope they will update their website on their scale up info soon...Hell I don't even need the scale up plan to be THAT good...I am happy with the usual 25% within 3-4 months if profit target is met, as long as they don't play dirty tricks, or get their assets frozen lol
memento mori
  • #20,527
  • Sep 4, 2023 9:52am Sep 4, 2023 9:52am
Quoting TrAndy1
To make it simple if I give a trader real money to trade then I need to have a license to do so, otherwise it is not allowed. That is in Germany and EU and also in USA and all major jurisdictions. Everytime when real money is involved then a license is required and you are fully regulated. Point. Any prop firm which is saying the traders are trading REAL funds is just too stupid. AND if the prop is not regulated then the traders needs to have a financial advisor license so (s)he allowed to take foreign real money for his own trading. Point. Otherwise...
I really don’t understand why you say this. If I give my money (company or personal) to any trader and ask him to trade that money behalf of me (as a prop trader) I do not need any lisence to do so. Trader however might need to be licenced if he does trading for several clients in real markets and with real money. But if she/he is employeed by prop then there is no need for lisence.

There is also several companies providing real funds for real traders or real margin accounts. Just do some research and you will several succesful companies. You should really keep real prop firms and Ponzi companies separated and check the facts before claiming things that are just not true.
  • #20,528
  • Sep 4, 2023 9:54am Sep 4, 2023 9:54am
Quoting Capablanca
{image} My first reaction was to laugh at this. Then I though about Madoff. Not sure if everybody is aware but in Madoff case they tried to return the maximum they could. BUT.... Let's say that each one should receive 65% (losing the other 35%). What they did was to look in the past records for people that received more than these 65% or people that received everything and closed their accounts. And asked them to return the money above this 65%, threating with a legal case. They were able to collect a lot of money from some people. That was a ponzi,...
I am not sure if evey payout needs to be paid back. This is for classic Ponzi but here you had an effort to do as trader to achieve a payout. So you have your right because you produced gains on a simulator (looking like on real FX broker (maybe unregulated broker)). All is about the 90/90/90 rule which is reality in the real world.
  • #20,529
  • Sep 4, 2023 9:56am Sep 4, 2023 9:56am
Quoting kalastaja
{quote} I really don’t understand why you say this. If I give my money (company or personal) to any trader and ask him to trade that money behalf of me (as a prop trader) I do not need any lisence to do so. Trader however might need to be licenced if he does trading for several clients in real markets and with real money. But if she/he is employeed by prop then there is no need for lisence. There is also several companies providing real funds for real traders or real margin accounts. Just do some research and you will several succesful companies....
The thing about prop trading that people dont realize is that the accounts where margin is held and traded as a prop firm, is not the same as the "virtual funds" the trader is trading so ultimately no one is giving you real money to trade but they are using your data to make their own trading decisions. Thats why the word "Investor" was used in the CFTC document. Are there investors in prop firms? Nope, its not even a relevant term, so why use it in a document?
They also don't have the two main factors of what constitutes a broker for regulation purposes. So it is truly a conundrum and it is showing that the CFTC doesn't understand the market it is trying to regulate.
  • #20,530
  • Sep 4, 2023 10:00am Sep 4, 2023 10:00am
Quoting kalastaja
{quote} I really don’t understand why you say this. If I give my money (company or personal) to any trader and ask him to trade that money behalf of me (as a prop trader) I do not need any lisence to do so. Trader however might need to be licenced if he does trading for several clients in real markets and with real money. But if she/he is employeed by prop then there is no need for lisence. There is also several companies providing real funds for real traders or real margin accounts. Just do some research and you will several succesful companies....
Oh no. You are mixing things. If you give money then trader needs to be licensed or you. Point. If any prop is giving you money instead of pure leverage only, they also need to be licensed, so you can take that real money which is foreign money for you and trade with it. Point. Everything else is illegal and crime. Point.
Only trading with virtual funds like on most such FX props here is okay with Bafin, German regulator and all kind of EU regulators too. I cannot speak for whole world, but this should be true in all kind of major jurisdictions. In USA I know for example you also need to be licensed to take other peoples or firms their money, if that person or firm is not already licensed and regulated by US laws there. Point. Do not come to me stupid. I am finished here. I am not a lawyer but I know some basic laws in the financial world.
  • #20,531
  • Sep 4, 2023 10:02am Sep 4, 2023 10:02am
Quoting Tovip
{quote} Agree. That and the short waiting time, not based in US or Canada, evidence of people getting actual payouts here...now just hope they will update their website on their scale up info soon...Hell I don't even need the scale up plan to be THAT good...I am happy with the usual 25% within 3-4 months if profit target is met, as long as they don't play dirty tricks, or get their assets frozen lol
FXIFY is UK based.

Not to worry at this time.

It may take time to affect.
Intraday only.
  • #20,532
  • Sep 4, 2023 10:05am Sep 4, 2023 10:05am
Quoting Takisd
The returning the money element isnt going to happen because of jurisdiction.
-Not only that, but it isn't even structured like a true ponzi where the early 'investors' received the bulk of the 'profits'. There was no guarantee of profits. You were not even an investor; you had to work for your profits. The terms were written plain as day that if you failed the challenge, then you would not receive a refund, so any trader signing up understood that and had to agree to those terms.

People were not investing millions of dollars, they were risking a few hundred to a few thousand at most. The thought of spending time and money tracking down people to pay that back seems really silly. I cannot see how any judge can rule that this is a ponzi, and that holds true, even if you do not bring up the fact that all B-book brokers and casinos are operating this way.
  • #20,533
  • Sep 4, 2023 10:07am Sep 4, 2023 10:07am
Quoting navk
My KYC is verified with FXIFY. Still waiting for funded account for my first challenge win with thm. {image}
I was told on Wed even though i already have KYC verification from my prev account. Lets see
Money is made by sitting, not trading
  • #20,534
  • Sep 4, 2023 10:07am Sep 4, 2023 10:07am
Quoting Vitore
{quote} depends on what you call long. Ive seen grids running profitably over a year with many trades each day. So a couple of thousands in total without a problem. They could run even longer with less agressive settings imho
Did you receive Deel contract ?

I am still waiting for mine.
Intraday only.
  • #20,535
  • Sep 4, 2023 10:08am Sep 4, 2023 10:08am
Quoting navk
{quote} Did you receive Deel contract ? I am still waiting for mine.
I have had it already since this is not my first funded with them. Still waiting regardless
Money is made by sitting, not trading
  • #20,536
  • Sep 4, 2023 10:08am Sep 4, 2023 10:08am
Quoting Takisd
{quote} The thing about prop trading that people dont realize is that the accounts where margin is held and traded as a prop firm, is not the same as the "virtual funds" the trader is trading so ultimately no one is giving you real money to trade but they are using your data to make their own trading decisions. Thats why the word "Investor" was used in the CFTC document. Are there investors in prop firms? Nope, its not even a relevant term, so why use it in a document? They also don't have the two main factors of what constitutes a broker for regulation...
true, so if there aren t any real investors, cos i recall the CEO saying he put up his own money to start the bussiness, traders aren t investors either, how can they build their case other then marked up spreads? which would be settle with a fine i think?
  • #20,537
  • Sep 4, 2023 10:10am Sep 4, 2023 10:10am
Quoting TrAndy1
{quote} I got very seldom and strange answers on Fundedengineer in Discord, like the mod is good at tick scalping with their own challenge and such things. Tick scalping does never work on any real FX broker except the datafeed is fraud. Second, Bespoke I have good experience. So far I am little bit before my first payout there but I have 800k funded accounts there. They are very good. In customer service, trading conditions and prices for their challenge fees with regular promo codes. My experience.
tick scalping is prohibited with funded engineer but they dont have exact definiton of it is
Money is made by sitting, not trading
  • #20,538
  • Sep 4, 2023 10:11am Sep 4, 2023 10:11am
Quoting Takisd
Thats why the word "Investor" was used in the CFTC document. Are there investors in prop firms? Nope, its not even a relevant term, so why use it in a document? They also don't have the two main factors of what constitutes a broker for regulation purposes. So it is truly a conundrum and it is showing that the CFTC doesn't understand the market it is trying to regulate.
-I think that the word 'investor' was used deliberately. I also think that it is not correct and that they probably know that.
  • #20,539
  • Sep 4, 2023 10:11am Sep 4, 2023 10:11am
When it comes hard to hard, how does it look like for you ?
When you ever need to pay back your payouts ? Anyone has got more than 50k or 100k or even 250k in payouts in total from such prop firms ?

Not sure how they want to sue in different jurisdictions. Maybe anyone knows more here.

But for me I am fine. I only get small payouts last year from some props. This year my main income came from payouts from my hedge fund I am with. And they are strictly regulated in the USA. So I am fine here and I am out of this. But it is good that it comes right now because I just built up some major funded accounts with ca. $1.4 million actually. So in a few months I was expecting to 10 fold my monthly payout income from my hedge fund, with seeking 6-digit payouts per month instead of actually only 5-digits. But if I ever needed to pay back all, huh...I would know this beforehand at least. So bad...

But I still do not believe that in case MFF will loose big that every payout needs to be paid back or ?
  • #20,540
  • Sep 4, 2023 10:13am Sep 4, 2023 10:13am
Quoting Vitore
{quote} tick scalping is prohibited with funded engineer but they dont have exact definiton of it is
The mod in Discord said to me it is allowed AND that he personally is successful with Tick Scalping on their own challenge (or datafeed). What a contradiction and then I left them forever (being banned). Funny!
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