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  • #20,441
  • Sep 4, 2023 7:26am Sep 4, 2023 7:26am
Quoting TrAndy1
{quote} First, I am not on telegram, only look at Discord. The CEO has much to do, there is work for him. So cannot say anything about critics, but for me he seems knowledgable. And they have a huge suggestions thread on Discord where you can tell them your constructive critics and they listen. Second, it is clear said in Discord. I do not know why you say they make a mistery. They say it clear and loud in Discord. You can have 2 positions regardless then only on winning positions held. DCA not allowed too, meaning that from your third entry on...
You don't see the temper of a CEO in their own Discord because they control it and ban people that make "difficult" questions. You see it in a Telegram group where they can't ban people. And what I saw from him it's a kid behavior that is not used to be confronted and boils quickly, insult people and doesn't address question in a clear way.

Regarding the pool of companies, there are data protection issues. People don't know what exactly is being shared.
He was even banned from one of the prop groups and the explanation of the administration is this:

Quote
Bespoke wished to be delisted from the group as had some confrontations with traders regarding leaking traders personal data to other firms and unfortunately, he couldn't defend this. Hence we don't discuss this firm here anymore. Hope this clear now, and you help us kee it this way.

So, there is some unclarity about how hey work. People should be aware of this and decide for themselves.

I'm not defending or attacking anything. I'm just relating what I saw and the opinion I have from them/him. I even have a funded account there, as I said.
  • #20,442
  • Sep 4, 2023 7:28am Sep 4, 2023 7:28am
Quoting TrAndy1
Martingale and Grid strategies are loosing strategies, so forbidding to do so, is fine from the prop firm side. I cannot say anything bad about that. But in addition you cannot do a lot of scalping with them. The reason is, they cannot copy to A-book them on your funded accounts (they say). That is all. So short term daytraders are not so welcomed on BFP, but that is then all here. Second reason was, that they recently had only 8cap as broker and they said, we all know that, that 8cap datafeed easily can be exploited for tick scalping EAs and strategies...
In reality they ban martingale and grid because in right hands they can highly profitable. Good to keep in mind that when we lose the prop wins.
  • #20,443
  • Sep 4, 2023 7:31am Sep 4, 2023 7:31am
Quoting Capablanca
{quote} You don't see the temper of a CEO in their own Discord because they control it and ban people that make "difficult" questions. You see it in a Telegram group where they can't ban people. And what I saw from him it's a kid behavior that is not used to be confronted and boils quickly, insult people and doesn't address question in a clear way. Regarding the pool of companies, there are data protection issues. People don't know what exactly is being shared. He was even banned from one of the prop groups and the explanation of the administration...
Cannot say this and I am watching their Discord. They do not ban people except for those who cheated and then ask in Discord stupid questions. I have seen this many times. Critics is very possible, there is a suggestions feature built-in, so any critics is fine. The mods are very helpful and do answer politely every time. I think you are not regularly in their discord as I am. Second data protection across multiple firms ? No, when the trader is reverse trading across multiple firms. That is only safety protection for Bespoke. Cannot say bad about that. And the CEO is fresh mind, I have not seen any impulsive behavior. I really cannot confirm what you said.
  • #20,444
  • Sep 4, 2023 7:32am Sep 4, 2023 7:32am
Quoting TraderTero
{quote} In reality they ban martingale and grid because in right hands they can highly profitable. Good to keep in mind that when we lose the prop wins.
No, not in the long run, only in the short run. And then you got payouts based on luck only. That is why it is banned and I find it very acceptable. And I have experience with both strategies (10 or more years ago). So I know about what I speak.
  • #20,445
  • Sep 4, 2023 7:33am Sep 4, 2023 7:33am
My opinion now has swung as follows:

The CFTC is treating the prop firm model as a ponzi. They are all going to get shat on by the CFTC I think because it has nothing to do with the virtual/real funds or slippage or anything like that. Its purely about the model resembling a ponzi. The problem is, it doesn't look like an illegal ponzi, and thats going to be the argument. I truly believe all the knee jerk reactions of some companies is going to bury them.
  • #20,446
  • Sep 4, 2023 7:35am Sep 4, 2023 7:35am
Quoting Dirac
{quote} When you went public, was it on their Discord/Facebook etc? Need to know for the future in case it happens to me. Thanks.
They blocked me from their Discord immediately, I published my case on a few prop firm review Telegram channels, they are members and monitor them
Money is made by sitting, not trading
  • #20,447
  • Sep 4, 2023 7:37am Sep 4, 2023 7:37am
Quoting TrAndy1
{quote} No, not in the long run, only in the short run. And then you got payouts based on luck only. That is why it is banned and I find it very acceptable. And I have experience with both strategies (10 or more years ago). So I know about what I speak.
Also profitable in the long run if you know what you are doing.
  • #20,448
  • Sep 4, 2023 7:38am Sep 4, 2023 7:38am
It is not a Ponzi as I said. Because you cannot say based on statistics they do a Ponzi or like. There is an evaluation like having an exam or milestone you need to achieve first. That a lot of people fail is based on the 90/90/90 rule and that is pure reality and has nothing to do with the prop firm his Ponzi style. Most people fail nevertheless, regardless trading on a prop or on personal account. A Ponzi is designed to fail beforehand and with destiny. Here it can work all the time because of the 90/90/90 rule, which is like a market law. If that is the main argument from CFTC I also see good chances for MFF they will come to a proper and fine solution for both.
  • #20,449
  • Sep 4, 2023 7:39am Sep 4, 2023 7:39am
Quoting Takisd
My opinion now has swung as follows: The CFTC is treating the prop firm model as a ponzi. They are all going to get shat on by the CFTC I think because it has nothing to do with the virtual/real funds or slippage or anything like that. Its purely about the model resembling a ponzi. The problem is, it doesn't look like an illegal ponzi, and thats going to be the argument. I truly believe all the knee jerk reactions of some companies is going to bury them.
I don't get how CFTC is going to prove a ponzi if revenues are 300M and costs (payouts and operation costs) are less than 200M.

It's sounds like a business to me, just like a casino, where the house (prop) has a edge (the edge in this case are the metrics of the business based in % of people passing phase 1, phase 2, achieving a payout, avg lifetime payouts, etc.)

They even collect money upfront to pay those lucky winners. Not like in Ponzi that they have to collect money to pay the old ones.
  • #20,450
  • Sep 4, 2023 7:39am Sep 4, 2023 7:39am
Quoting TraderTero
{quote} Also profitable in the long run if you know what you are doing.
NO !!!!
  • #20,451
  • Sep 4, 2023 7:41am Sep 4, 2023 7:41am
Quoting Vitore
{quote} They blocked me from their Discord immediately, I published my case on a few prop firm review Telegram channels, they are members and monitor them
Thanks. Please can you DM me the 'prop firm review Telegram channels', or post here. Need the sites in my locker, just in case.
  • #20,452
  • Sep 4, 2023 7:41am Sep 4, 2023 7:41am
Quoting TrAndy1
{quote} Cannot say this and I am watching their Discord. They do not ban people except for those who cheated and then ask in Discord stupid questions. I have seen this many times. Critics is very possible, there is a suggestions feature built-in, so any critics is fine. The mods are very helpful and do answer politely every time. I think you are not regularly in their discord as I am. Second data protection across multiple firms ? No, when the trader is reverse trading across multiple firms. That is only safety protection for Bespoke. Cannot say...

The answer is simple: don't watch the environment that is fully under his control. If you don't wanna use Telegram, that's on you.

But, keep in mind that without it, your research is limited.
  • #20,453
  • Sep 4, 2023 7:41am Sep 4, 2023 7:41am
Quoting Vitore
{quote} They blocked me from their Discord immediately, I published my case on a few prop firm review Telegram channels, they are members and monitor them
Which telegram channels ?
  • #20,454
  • Sep 4, 2023 7:41am Sep 4, 2023 7:41am
Anyone have experience with:
https://theconcepttrading.com/

They are supposed to be regulated by ASIC.
  • #20,455
  • Sep 4, 2023 7:46am Sep 4, 2023 7:46am
Quoting TraderTero
Anyone have experience with: https://theconcepttrading.com/ They are supposed to be regulated by ASIC.
Their offer is fraud. You pay full drawdown of account size as fee. There is score less than 1 meaning you pay more than what you get there. Forget it.
  • #20,456
  • Sep 4, 2023 7:46am Sep 4, 2023 7:46am
Quoting TrAndy1
{quote} NO !!!!
Its all about risk management, hedging and equity protection.
  • #20,457
  • Sep 4, 2023 7:47am Sep 4, 2023 7:47am
Quoting TrAndy1
{quote} Their offer is fraud. You pay full drawdown of account size as fee. There is score less than 1 meaning you pay more than what you get there. Forget it.
You have to count in scaling also.
  • #20,458
  • Sep 4, 2023 7:48am Sep 4, 2023 7:48am
Quoting TraderTero
{quote} Its all about risk management, hedging and equity protection.
No, because you need to have an edge first. Otherwise you can only minimze losses, so best solution is then NOT to trade. You cannot figure out when autocorrelation is working or not, or when the market is repeating price action or not. Sometimes it works and sometimes not. Overall it is not working ( in the long run as I said).
  • #20,459
  • Sep 4, 2023 7:50am Sep 4, 2023 7:50am
Quoting TraderTero
{quote} You have to count in scaling also.
Jeez, you cannot calculate at all. I have made here excel sheets to calculate the score. Meaning score less than 1 means that scaling on personal account is BETTER!
  • #20,460
  • Sep 4, 2023 7:54am Sep 4, 2023 7:54am
Quoting TrAndy1
{quote} No, because you need to have an edge first. Otherwise you can only minimze losses, so best solution is then NOT to trade. You cannot figure out when autocorrelation is working or not, or when the market is repeating price action or not. Sometimes it works and sometimes not. Overall it is not working ( in the long run as I said).
I could prove you wrong but I don't want to turn this thread to a strategy argument so I will leave it at that.
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