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  • #19,861
  • Sep 2, 2023 5:30am Sep 2, 2023 5:30am
Quoting TraderTero
{quote} All EU and UK located props should move off shore asap in order to survive. Since props can be defined as ponzi they will not be able to be regulated in EU or UK.
Moving offshore will likely make it far easier for the "dirty tricks" side of the operation to be kept behind closed doors? It's a double edge sword in many ways.
We know how the core operation works in terms of challenge failed fees paying for the minority of successful challenges but what we have discovered is it is an ongoing endeavor for the "prop firm" to actively continue efforts to trip up the successful traders and get them off their books. We do need some kind of regulation to combat that side of the operation and offshore may not be the best place for that ?
  • #19,862
  • Sep 2, 2023 5:36am Sep 2, 2023 5:36am
https://theforexfunder.com/ do they payout? They have a 50% discount on all accounts now.
  • #19,863
  • Sep 2, 2023 5:39am Sep 2, 2023 5:39am
Quoting FX-DON
{quote} Moving offshore will likely make it far easier for the "dirty tricks" side of the operation to be kept behind closed doors? It's a double edge sword in many ways. We know how the core operation works in terms of challenge failed fees paying for the minority of successful challenges but what we have discovered is it is an ongoing endeavor for the "prop firm" to actively continue efforts to trip up the successful traders and get them off their books. We do need some kind of regulation to combat that side of the operation and offshore may not...
MFF operation was disclosed, confirming our suspicious in this topic. And that happened because they made the "mistake" of being in Canada. Probably US companies will suffer the same.

Does anyone believe that authorities in UAE want/have capacity to produce something similar for Funded Next, for example ? Trusting Funded Next because they are "offshore" is kidding ourselves.

I repeat what I said before a couple of times: we should assume that all industry are crooks. We should just chose the more "honest" crooks.
  • #19,864
  • Sep 2, 2023 5:42am Sep 2, 2023 5:42am
Quoting Capablanca
{quote} I repeat what I said before a couple of times: we should assume that all industry are crooks. We should just chose the more "honest" crooks.
yup, an honest crook has a way of managing the risk you represent, a dishonest one will invent a reason not to pay you or invent a way to fail your acc.
  • #19,865
  • Sep 2, 2023 5:44am Sep 2, 2023 5:44am
Quoting FX-DON
{quote} Moving offshore will likely make it far easier for the "dirty tricks" side of the operation to be kept behind closed doors? It's a double edge sword in many ways. We know how the core operation works in terms of challenge failed fees paying for the minority of successful challenges but what we have discovered is it is an ongoing endeavor for the "prop firm" to actively continue efforts to trip up the successful traders and get them off their books. We do need some kind of regulation to combat that side of the operation and offshore may not...
The best regulation is for the prop not to use dirty tricks like IP hunting, excessive slippage, fake copy trading allegations etc. in order to avoid payments as eventually everything boils down to being transparent and trustworthy. It was a well known fact that MFF was slipping like crazy especially during news.

MFF's margin was over 50% so in reality they had no real reason for the dirty tricks. Regulation usually just increases the cost of doing business without really accomplishing anything positive. A good example is b-booker Forex.com which is regulated but can still deny payments all the time to profitable traders by accusing them for exactly the same things props accuse profitable traders.
  • #19,866
  • Sep 2, 2023 5:45am Sep 2, 2023 5:45am
Quoting Capablanca
{quote} I'm not saying MFF were angels, far from that. I'm just saying that all props work in the same way, having or not their own server (no real money involved, slippage parametrized, fake commissions, execution delays, etc.). This being said, we just have to analyze through social media, telegram groups, twitter, trust pilot, personal experience shared here, etc. who are the ones more "honest" in this videogame industry. And if we look at the number of MFF (or FTMO) bad cases that we hear about (compared with the huge number of traders they...

totally agree with u, I'm also not claiming that other r angel only mff is a scam. i think I failed to explain properly due to lack of expertise in emglish.

my point is we cant have 100% honest condition in this sector, reputed broker like fxcm, oanda, forex. c etc also punnised by regulatory body for their tweaking on theprice feed, or in the system. which obviously caused the trader but how much? may be 0.5-1 % of net profit of a trader. but if a whole sector run like this ( MFF) this would bring disaster in ppls life. I'm also sufferer by mffs shut down, but still I support this if they don't let their trader do trade on live feed. 1/2 pips slippage or wide spreads don't create huge issue on traders side. it will increase the profit margin on broker side but individual life wont be in danger. but cheating like mff almost a ponzi and ponzi is always harmful for any culture.

as I mentioned earlier I saw this challenge based funding just a different model of PAMM. no idea why brokers don't come up with fee based challenges with lower profit sharing.

and having a real broker always good for traders. bcz to get aus, UK USA license cost mill of dollar. which a broker wont take risk to get banned by doing this level of cheating.
  • #19,867
  • Sep 2, 2023 5:50am Sep 2, 2023 5:50am
[quote=Capablanca;14560380]{quote} MFF operation was disclosed, confirming our suspicious in this topic. And that happened because they made the "mistake" of being in Canada. Probably US companies will suffer the same. Does anyone believe that authorities in UAE want/have capacity to produce something similar for Funded Next, for example ? Trusting Funded Next because they are "offshore" is kidding ourselves. I repeat what I said before a couple of times: we should assume that all industry are crooks. We should just chose the more "honest" crooks.[/quote

Yep the business in general is a sea of sharks, some take a small bite and others swallow you whole. I personally would trade some sacrifice on profit split for a truly transparent company to come and grab the lion share of this sector, I think some will be eyeing it up before too long.
  • #19,868
  • Sep 2, 2023 5:51am Sep 2, 2023 5:51am
Quoting Capablanca
{quote} MFF operation was disclosed, confirming our suspicious in this topic. And that happened because they made the "mistake" of being in Canada. Probably US companies will suffer the same. Does anyone believe that authorities in UAE want/have capacity to produce something similar for Funded Next, for example ? Trusting Funded Next because they are "offshore" is kidding ourselves. I repeat what I said before a couple of times: we should assume that all industry are crooks. We should just chose the more "honest" crooks.
FundedNext cannot simply be trusted because of their business practices i.e IP hunting and false copy trading claims. Those companies who can build trust will be successful. There are several big offshore brokers who might now see a good chance to jump in the business. Their advantage is that they already could have a large client base who trust them.
  • #19,869
  • Sep 2, 2023 5:52am Sep 2, 2023 5:52am
Unpopular opinion but i think that what happened to MFF is good for prop industry. Legitimate firms executing deals in real markets will survive and Ponzi companies will disappear. Passing evaluations will become harder but even that is good for traders in long run. There have always been prop firms and prop traders but because of all these Ponzi props there was impression that trading is easy way to become rich.
  • #19,870
  • Sep 2, 2023 5:54am Sep 2, 2023 5:54am
I do not think that UAE is a solution for props, because the Oil and Banking industry is heavily regulated in UAE. You cannot compare to Cayman Islands for example.
  • #19,871
  • Sep 2, 2023 5:56am Sep 2, 2023 5:56am
Quoting TraderTero
{quote} The best regulation is for the prop not to use dirty tricks like IP hunting, excessive slippage, fake copy trading allegations etc. in order to avoid payments as eventually everything boils down to being transparent and trustworthy. It was a well known fact that MFF was slipping like crazy especially during news. MFF's margin was over 50% so in reality they had no real reason for the dirty tricks. Regulation usually just increases the cost of doing business without really accomplishing anything positive. A good example is b-booker Forex.com...
I fully agree but from everything we see and have witnessed in the last couple of years they seem not to be able to resist resorting to the dirty tricks and we do need some sort of authority to keep tabs on that type of activity, perhaps a subscription based independent traders audit society and if the prop firm don't sign up with them, you don't buy their product. Like independent drug testing for sports etc. They can come and look at the activities at any time ?
  • #19,872
  • Sep 2, 2023 5:58am Sep 2, 2023 5:58am
Quoting kalastaja
Unpopular opinion but i think that what happened to MFF is good for prop industry. Legitimate firms executing deals in real markets will survive and Ponzi companies will disappear. Passing evaluations will become harder but even that is good for traders in long run. There have always been prop firms and prop traders but because of all these Ponzi props there was impression that trading is easy way to become rich.
It can get worse. Because if you trade real money, then the prop needs to be fully licensed as they are like financial advisor which is a part of banking activities like asset management or wealth management divisions there. And this is not easy because with real money also in EU at least there are more rules to consider. At worst you would need as customer an additional license as financial advisor to "take" money from those props to leverage your trading activities. It ain't that easy with real money and real trade execution, because at least the prop firm needs to be fully licensed and registered within a banking license framework here.

Just look at Zulu and Darwinex for example, they were unregulated then they become grey and now they are forbidden here in EU, as you need to be registered and licensed as financial advisor before you can take place on such schemes. The same could happen with those prop firms.
  • #19,873
  • Sep 2, 2023 6:03am Sep 2, 2023 6:03am
They allowed to collect money on Zulu some time ago and trade with that money as grey legally. So the German Bafin allowed it because of being an exception. But their opinion changed and now it is totally forbidden. Those regulators are bureaucrats, they want to have anything under their control so they have more power and can decide what is allowed or not. And particular here in Germany the bureaucracy is growing and growing like cancer. It is an illness as they reduce overall growth and wealth here. The same is within the EU framework as Germany is one big part of EU and can dictate some rules to the EU too.
  • #19,874
  • Sep 2, 2023 6:04am Sep 2, 2023 6:04am
Quoting kalastaja
Unpopular opinion but i think that what happened to MFF is good for prop industry. Legitimate firms executing deals in real markets will survive and Ponzi companies will disappear. Passing evaluations will become harder but even that is good for traders in long run. There have always been prop firms and prop traders but because of all these Ponzi props there was impression that trading is easy way to become rich.
Completely disagree. No prop would survive executing all trades in real market because most of traders are losers. That's why MFF and other props (and B brokers) had/have a profitable business. Overall there are more people losing than winning.
  • #19,875
  • Sep 2, 2023 6:06am Sep 2, 2023 6:06am
Quoting TrAndy1
{quote} It can get worse. Because if you trade real money, then the prop needs to be fully licensed as they are like financial advisor which is a part of banking activities like asset management or wealth management divisions there. And this is not easy because with real money also in EU at least there are more rules to consider. At worst you would need as customer an additional license as financial advisor to "take" money from those props to leverage your trading activities. It ain't that easy with real money and real trade execution, because at...
You are right and wrong. If traders use Prop company own money there is no need for lisence. Yes, it requires capital but that is the whole point anyway. Proprietary trading = trading companys own capital. Darwinex and Zulu connect traders and investors so in that case licence is needed.
  • #19,876
  • Sep 2, 2023 6:08am Sep 2, 2023 6:08am
Don't ask for regulation. This is a gaming industry, not a trading industry.

If regulation comes it will be the same than real props. Real money would have to be in the line, a ton of financial obligations, very tight stops and DD, long testing periods, people needing to pass certification exams before joining, etc.

There would be no online prop industry, just con artists in offshores working in the same exact way as now.
  • #19,877
  • Sep 2, 2023 6:08am Sep 2, 2023 6:08am
Glad I took a diversion long ago, Happy with my IC 500:1
Leverage.
If I want to go for funding I will choose 5%ers high stake at this moment.
Everything else will bite the dust one after one.
Too many big mouths talking about own server bullshit here. Good luck to all.
on a postive roll...
  • #19,878
  • Sep 2, 2023 6:09am Sep 2, 2023 6:09am
with this info about MFF and business practices coming into light- which is something quite a few of us in this topic already suspected




Imagine how it looks with old Finotive rules where you had to cover previous losses before receiving profit splits of new accounts

"hello, we cannot pay your imaginary winnings because you previously made imaginary losses"
  • #19,879
  • Sep 2, 2023 6:10am Sep 2, 2023 6:10am
Quoting Capablanca
{quote} I'm not saying MFF were angels, far from that. I'm just saying that all props work in the same way, having or not their own server (no real money involved, slippage parametrized, fake commissions, execution delays, etc.). This being said, we just have to analyze through social media, telegram groups, twitter, trust pilot, personal experience shared here, etc. who are the ones more "honest" in this videogame industry. And if we look at the number of MFF (or FTMO) bad cases that we hear about (compared with the huge number of traders they...

totally agree with u. no one is honest here. but degree of honesty matters.

even reputed forex broker also got fineed bcz of their tweaking, fxcm , oanda, forex.c etc.

here in this sector 100% honest firm is almost not exist.

if u check the business model, firms revenue generates form 2 things, 1. challenge fee, 2. profit from live trading.

here if a firm don't generate any profit from trading, how long do u think they can pay from the fees only. not long. and this is ponzi.

on other hand if a firm generates from both action, and use some dirty tricks like- slippage, wide spreads by 1-2 pips. how much it will cost to a trader max 0.5-1% of net profit.

until regulatory body caught all te firms which have using demo for live ACC. its better to trade with those firm which offers legimated broker .

bcz to get license under aus, UK , USA regulation it cost multiple mill of dollars. no firm will take that much risk to get banned form broker business by helping real scam firms. yes there will be some unhealthy trading tricks applied by brokers which a flaw but it exist in this trading sector we have to accept it if we want to trade.
  • #19,880
  • Sep 2, 2023 6:11am Sep 2, 2023 6:11am
Quoting kalastaja
{quote} You are right and wrong. If traders use Prop company own money there is no need for lisence. Yes, it requires capital but that is the whole point anyway. Proprietary trading = trading companys own capital. Darwinex and Zulu connect traders and investors so in that case licence is needed.
But no of those prop has own money. They have max. outside investors like FTMO for example is telling us. So they match investors with traders and then BOOM, you need a full license as prop. And that even can cause problems as trader you want to take part here. Only if they are operating like hedge funds then you are fine as trader and not need any licenses. But which FX prop firm can do this ? Maybe only FTMO.
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