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  • #19,141
  • Aug 29, 2023 10:25am Aug 29, 2023 10:25am
Did a test run on FTMO demo for my AI signals thingy, lets call it BOB.

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The one thing i notice is that FTMO demo's are not the same as the live feed in terms of fills and spread movement. So it may be magical results based on a magic feed but the feed in general seems ok for testing purposes.

So as promised, maybe next week I will try it on FXIFY if the world is still here a week from now. I do want to avoid the news cycle though.

If bob can reliably pass these prop firms I will use it as a pokemon master to catch them all if I have to energy to go through each ones compliance process.
  • #19,142
  • Aug 29, 2023 10:47am Aug 29, 2023 10:47am
Quoting Dirac
{quote} No offense but Apex is designed for people that can actually trade and are consistently profitable. Your bullet points are unlikely to worry a consistently profitable trader. 99% of retail traders can't trade for one reason or another, Apex is not looking for those individuals.
Sure, but if you are a profitable trader (the 1%), the forex props are still a better deal. Why would one trade where they will make less money and/or have more restrictions? Just asking. I trade with 4 forex props and I trade futures on a live account with amp.
  • #19,143
  • Edited 10:57am Aug 29, 2023 10:47am | Edited 10:57am
Quoting Takisd
Did a test run on FTMO demo for my AI signals thingy, lets call it BOB. {image} The one thing i notice is that FTMO demo's are not the same as the live feed in terms of fills and spread movement. So it may be magical results based on a magic feed but the feed in general seems ok for testing purposes. So as promised, maybe next week I will try it on FXIFY if the world is still here a week from now. I do want to avoid the news cycle though. If bob can reliably pass these prop firms I will use it as a pokemon master to catch them all if I have to energy...

Very impressive AI Bob you have there. I know about EAs since I have designed many EAs over the last several years. I wonder what the difference between AI and EAs
  • #19,144
  • Edited 11:05am Aug 29, 2023 10:51am | Edited 11:05am
Quoting wmwmw
{quote} Apex is not good at all compared with forex prop firms. 1. Trailing drawdown. A trailing drawdown makes it 3 times more likely to blow up your account than a fixed drawdown, which is industry norm.In another forum I watch some traders posted their journey for Apex challenges and when they blow up their accounts, their accounts are actually in decent profit if they play MFF challenges. 2. Monthly fee, exchange fee and activation fee. Compared with MFF, activation fee alone is equal to MFF's fee for 50K challenge.Futures prop firms' challenge...
Did I miss something where I said it was better than forex prop firms? I said they were the best futures prop firm, and did you miss where I said @ 80%/90% off discount? That 50K eval would be $16/$34 per month + $140 activation fee if you pass & no monthly exchange fees unless you want to go live. Higher profit target?!?!?! 50K account... FTMO = 10% + 5% Target / 10% DD = 1.5, TFT/TFF/E8 = 8% + 5% / 10% = 1.3. Apex 3% / 2.5% = 1.2

They are not better than most forex props overall, but they are a firm with a good track record of paying & their offer on 25K/50K @ "DISCOUNT SALE" is not bad. Once I'm done maxing out with the firms that pay on the forex side, I would consider adding them to the mix on the futures side since my personal trading style fits within their rules.
  • #19,145
  • Aug 29, 2023 10:56am Aug 29, 2023 10:56am
Quoting CableJ
{quote} Did I miss something where I said it was better than forex prop firms? I said they were the best futures prop firm, and did you miss where I said @ 80%/90% off discount? That 50K would be $16/$34 per month. Higher profit target?!?!?! 50K account... FTMO = 10% + 5% Target / 10% DD = 1.5, TFT/TFF/E8 = 8% + 5% / 10% = 1.3. Apex 3% / 2.5% = 1.2 They are not better than most forex props, but they are a firm with a good track record of paying & their offer on 25K/50K @ "DISCOUNT SALE" is not bad.
WTF ?! You said 80%/90% and I understood 80/90% of value (so 10/20% discount).
80/90% discount it's insanely cheap, almost free money, even with the trailing stop. How often do they do that ?
  • #19,146
  • Aug 29, 2023 10:58am Aug 29, 2023 10:58am
Quoting Boulder
{quote} Very impressive BOB AI you have there. I know about EAs since I have designed many EAs over the last several years. I wonder what the difference between AI and EAs
BOB just tells me what target price is pretty much and expected drawdown. If it makes sense I will try.
  • #19,147
  • Aug 29, 2023 10:59am Aug 29, 2023 10:59am
Quoting Takisd
{quote} BOB just tells me what target price is pretty much and expected drawdown. If it makes sense I will try.
ohh,, Bob is more like a forecast model, am I right ?
by looking back on history and forecasting direction, how far the move, something like echo forecast
  • #19,148
  • Aug 29, 2023 11:04am Aug 29, 2023 11:04am
Quoting Boulder
{quote} ohh,, Bob is more like a forecast model, am I right ? by looking back on history and forecasting direction, how far the move, something like echo forecast
yes but it only works on slow ass pairs. Fails miserably on gold which was what i was trying to build it for.
  • #19,149
  • Edited 11:29am Aug 29, 2023 11:12am | Edited 11:29am
Quoting Capablanca
{quote} WTF ?! You said 80%/90% and I understood 80/90% of value (so 10/20% discount). 80/90% discount it's insanely cheap, almost free money, even with the trailing stop. How often do they do that ?
Exactly! That is what caught my eye... I could deal with the ridiculous trailing DD until +5% if it's that damn cheap until you pass.

40-50% off is routine. I believe they have done 80% & 90% off a couple times in the last 2-3 months.
  • #19,150
  • Aug 29, 2023 11:23am Aug 29, 2023 11:23am
Quoting pipmaster77
{quote} Sure, but if you are a profitable trader (the 1%), the forex props are still a better deal. Why would one trade where they will make less money and/or have more restrictions? Just asking. I trade with 4 forex props and I trade futures on a live account with amp.
Yes, max out MFF/FTMO first.
  • #19,151
  • Aug 29, 2023 11:31am Aug 29, 2023 11:31am
hmmmmmm I'm starting to get suspicious vibes lol
  • #19,152
  • Aug 29, 2023 12:02pm Aug 29, 2023 12:02pm
Quoting Capablanca
{quote} WTF ?! You said 80%/90% and I understood 80/90% of value (so 10/20% discount). 80/90% discount it's insanely cheap, almost free money, even with the trailing stop. How often do they do that ?
On or near every long weekend (US long weekends). Even with 90% discount futures prop firms are still expensive as compared to forex because once you pass you have to pay 150$ for 50K challenge and one still needs to make profits equal to allowed draw down to stop trailing and withdraw.
However once you cross 10% of profits futures prop firms are way better than forex as there is no daily DD or any profit cuts till 25K (for apex and 10-12K for other prop firms) plus one can have upto 20 accounts so literally 500K with no profit split but with same efforts forex prop firms gives way more flexibility.
  • #19,153
  • Aug 29, 2023 2:23pm Aug 29, 2023 2:23pm
Quoting Boulder
Why Traders Fail Prop Firm Challenges (+ How to Pass) https://youtu.be/MBryt_tG_Rc?si=3QVu-vEqvFQtFQWN&t=3
Good educational video.
Intraday only.
  • #19,154
  • Aug 29, 2023 3:22pm Aug 29, 2023 3:22pm
Quoting Boulder
Why Traders Fail Prop Firm Challenges (+ How to Pass) https://youtu.be/MBryt_tG_Rc?si=3QVu-vEqvFQtFQWN&t=3
I apologize for if i sound humble bragging or just bragging in general. But am I or anyone who can pass and make withdrawals multiple times in a prop firm considered a good trader already. man those stats are very low. I do fail challenges but so far all the losses I made back then when I was trading with a broker are already taken out due to prop firm profits.
  • #19,155
  • Aug 29, 2023 4:42pm Aug 29, 2023 4:42pm
Quoting KoyaAndy18
But am I or anyone who can pass and make withdrawals multiple times in a prop firm considered a good trader already. man those stats are very low.
-I think, trading for props can change things. First, the challenge typically requires an account flip. This already can change the dynamic and psychology for some traders. It used to be worse with time-limits.

The idea of having potentially more capital than you ever have can also change how you trade. Greed can be a real problem. The added leverage, with daily draw-down rules, etc. is something that many traders may not be used to. All of these things can cause some traders to trade differently.

We also do not know the 'why' for all traders. For some, trading for prop may not be a necessary thing, so they may not take things as seriously, which can skew statistics.

There is also, I believe, some traders that are just throwing tons of money at challenges, as they accumulate profits on their funded accounts, and then trading the challenges with less care/attention because they know that they can just order more. I can only speculate about that.

I think, flipping an account in 30 to 60 days probably turned off a lot of traders (or forced many to just give up on the idea). Maybe, the statistics will change now that most time-limits have been removed.

Generally speaking, I do think that most traders are not doing well in this space. I definitely think that most traders that are trading for prop are not ready to do so, yet they continually try to do so anyway.

I will say that those that are pulling profits out to fund their personal account(s) and/or invest in revenue-generating assets instead of thinking of these firms as a steady paycheck etc., are doing the smart thing. Think of these firms as a tool to fund other things, and you will be better off in my opinion.

With that opinion in mind, I do expect that some conservative traders may approach prop trading with a lot more risk, because it makes sense to do so, which can also skew statistics.
  • #19,156
  • Aug 29, 2023 4:45pm Aug 29, 2023 4:45pm
Quoting KoyaAndy18
{quote} I apologize for if i sound humble bragging or just bragging in general. But am I or anyone who can pass and make withdrawals multiple times in a prop firm considered a good trader already. man those stats are very low. I do fail challenges but so far all the losses I made back then when I was trading with a broker are already taken out due to prop firm profits.
Isn't it true with any thing in the life? How many engineers gets into top notch companies all around the world if you compare these statistics are way BETTER.
  • #19,157
  • Aug 29, 2023 4:48pm Aug 29, 2023 4:48pm
I had once funded account with Apex. The whole trick is consistency rule. Before you get lost with stats about how much you can earn and how cheap the cost will be please read faq on their website carefully. Forget about flipping account, you need to be consistent. Also I had issue with my dashboard on website, it didn't refresh for few days and shown wrong max drawdown level. Support couldn't solve it. Since that time I avoid this company.

https://support.apextraderfunding.co...Prop-Accounts-
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  • #19,158
  • Aug 29, 2023 4:52pm Aug 29, 2023 4:52pm
Quoting youngD
I had once funded account with Apex. The whole trick is consistency rule. Before you get lost with stats about how much you can earn and how cheap the cost will be please read faq on their website carefully. Forget about flipping account, you need to be consistent. Also I had issue with my dashboard on website, it didn't refresh for few days and shown wrong max drawdown level. Support couldn't solve it. Since that time I avoid this company.
Consistency Rule doesn't matter. It just delays payout. You can't make more than 30% of overall profit in a single trading day. It should not be a deal breaker as you trade more till your overall single day profit goes below. It is not any form of violation. Also you can't straddle on news (funded or evaluation)
  • #19,159
  • Aug 29, 2023 4:56pm Aug 29, 2023 4:56pm
Quoting youngD
I had once funded account with Apex. The whole trick is consistency rule. Before you get lost with stats about how much you can earn and how cheap the cost will be please read faq on their website carefully. Forget about flipping account, you need to be consistent. Also I had issue with my dashboard on website, it didn't refresh for few days and shown wrong max drawdown level. Support couldn't solve it. Since that time I avoid this company.
Only trick I can think on futures prop firm is to have bigger lot size and smaller pips target and hope it reaches target without any retracement as they have UNREALIZED TRAILING drawdown. With these prop firms I will get more into panic when position starts making money in profit
  • #19,160
  • Aug 29, 2023 4:59pm Aug 29, 2023 4:59pm
I trade indeces and tried this futures companies but without success. This trailing dd will kill you because us indeces are volatile.
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