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  • #17,701
  • Jul 12, 2023 9:49pm Jul 12, 2023 9:49pm
Quoting pipmaster77
Right, but with a broker you are depositing money and trading with that money.
-Perhaps a similar argument could be made with props? None of the trading may be real, in either case, so our funds could just be sitting, untouched, in some account while we trade. You have more buying power (artificial account balance) with a prop, based on your 'deposit' or buy-in fee, but brokers can provide a similar feature by offering outrageous leverage. The trade-off is that you get more artificial buying power with prop, but you have to flip an account just to get your money back, unlike with a broker. In both cases, the money that you receive from them is real, based on your artificial trading results.

It may certainly be a gray area, which is why I think that when determining the who/how of things from a regulatory standpoint, it may come down to how that trading data is being used. If a prop is not using the data in any way, then it may just be gamification, or an online casino at that point. Maybe the usual parties that regulate this space would still try to put pressure on any known brokers that are facilitating such activity, but I can only speculate.

Quoting pipmaster77
I'm no expert either, and what takisd said earlier makes sense, it is more about what it is marketed as rather than what it actually is.
-Indeed. I suspect that both matter, for sure, and I do think that how things are marketed may determine who initially gets involved and how quickly that happens etc. since the marketing is so on-the-surface and does not require much digging.
  • #17,702
  • Jul 12, 2023 11:59pm Jul 12, 2023 11:59pm
A lot of argument is made around the concept of 'this is comparing apples with oranges'.

At the end of the day, apples are bought and sold and so are oranges. It is the act of a monitory exchange involving funds and profit/loss or expectation of it that matters.
A regulator is not going to box themselves within a narrow and predictable definition. They are going to use the umbrella of A financial transaction has taken place. Our mandate is to regulate that.
In that way, everything will be the regulator's business to look into and decide if things are in line.

Also, regulating is an industry now. I am sure there are professional lawyers that write articles and chapters of rules are reinforcements that you never knew you needed.
  • #17,703
  • Jul 13, 2023 1:56am Jul 13, 2023 1:56am
Quoting Takisd
Edit: I have my TFT account btw, will start it when conditions are normal tomorrow. Lets gooooooooooooooooooooo lucky 7


So what's the plan to hammer Angelo ?
  • #17,704
  • Jul 13, 2023 1:58am Jul 13, 2023 1:58am
Quoting pipmaster77
{quote} Right, but with a broker you are depositing money and trading with that money. Here, is it explicitly clear as all of their disclaimers state: they are not brokers, they accept no deposits, etc, etc. I am certain those disclaimers serve a purpose, like the brokers who state "Information on this site is not intended to solicit residents of the US, North Korea and Iraq"....what great company we keep, by the way. I'm no expert either, and what takisd said earlier makes sense, it is more about what it is marketed as rather than what it actually...
Well, we could see this as you depositing 500 USD (100K account) and they give you a bonus of 9.500 USD to allow a 10.000 USD DD.
But before you need to pass a 2 phases exam.
  • #17,705
  • Edited 5:37am Jul 13, 2023 2:08am | Edited 5:37am
Quoting OutThere
A regulator is not going to box themselves within a narrow and predictable definition. They are going to use the umbrella of A financial transaction has taken place. Our mandate is to regulate that.
TL/DR: The industry will be fine.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the majority of retail regulation on trading stocks, forex, and futures, options is centered around protecting idiot traders from losing all of their capital while engaging in activities they do not understand. Highly leveraged securities have the capacity to cause damage greater than what is immediately obvious. PDT was created in a similar vein in the US. The other regulations are aimed at providing market reliability and stability.

With these "prop firms" you basically can only go broke $500 at a time. With 200:1 leverage you could potentially lose tens of thousands of dollars with only a few pips, making you a ward of the state over night. In the US regulators have made gambling more accessible, so why would they be concerned with people placing these $500 "gambles"? I don't think they are.

If the prop firms are to be shut down it will be on the basis of whether or not these are viable businesses that generate operating profits beyond the collection of fees. I suspect that there are smart people that can build lasting businesses around the prop firm model, and that there are others that are simply grifting. The industry will be fine.
  • #17,706
  • Jul 13, 2023 2:42am Jul 13, 2023 2:42am
Quoting Takisd
{quote} The good news is it looks by the end of the month most if not all prop firms will have no time limit. Edit: I have my TFT account btw, will start it when conditions are normal tomorrow. Lets gooooooooooooooooooooo lucky 7
Like Funded Trading Plus already has
https://www.fundedtradingplus.com
every Saint has a past. Every Sinner has a Future
  • #17,707
  • Jul 13, 2023 2:43am Jul 13, 2023 2:43am
[quote=pipmaster77;14495879]{quote} MANY folks here have already listed the MANY reasons to go with the MANY better options. Simply search the thread, you'll find them.[/quote]

I have.

https://www.fundedtradingplus.com
every Saint has a past. Every Sinner has a Future
  • #17,708
  • Jul 13, 2023 2:46am Jul 13, 2023 2:46am
Quoting turnip15
{quote} MANY folks here have already listed the MANY reasons to go with the MANY better options. Simply search the thread, you'll find them. I have. https://www.fundedtradingplus.com
Its pretty obvious by now you are working for fundedtradingplus......
  • #17,709
  • Jul 13, 2023 2:50am Jul 13, 2023 2:50am
Today we are all regulation Gurus, and I think that the prop firms, along with its audience, pay too much attention to the CFTC and not other regulators.

https://www.investmentweek.co.uk/new...20video%20game.

You could argue that the FCA, based on published articles as per the above, does not like gamification of financial markets.

Then, I point you to TFT's beautiful gamified website.

You do the rest.
  • #17,710
  • Jul 13, 2023 2:59am Jul 13, 2023 2:59am
Quoting turnip15
{quote} Like Funded Trading Plus already has https://www.fundedtradingplus.com
That prop is garbage with trailing DD
  • #17,711
  • Jul 13, 2023 3:00am Jul 13, 2023 3:00am
Quoting Takisd
Its pretty obvious by now you are working for fundedtradingplus......
-This thread is no longer in the commercial sub-forum, so constantly advertising here seems like it would be prohibited.
  • #17,712
  • Jul 13, 2023 3:05am Jul 13, 2023 3:05am
Quoting Takisd
You could argue that the FCA, based on published articles as per the above, does not like gamification of financial markets.
-Right. There are many concerning things happening in this space. I guess, time will tell what will actually happen. All is good until it's not.
  • #17,713
  • Jul 13, 2023 3:25am Jul 13, 2023 3:25am
Quoting turnip15
{quote} Like Funded Trading Plus already has https://www.fundedtradingplus.com
Plus these guys also have no time limit and are equal or better than most stuff you guys throw up


https://the5ers.com
every Saint has a past. Every Sinner has a Future
  • #17,714
  • Jul 13, 2023 3:28am Jul 13, 2023 3:28am
Quoting Nsak3y
{quote}-Right. There are many concerning things happening in this space. I guess, time will tell what will actually happen. All is good until it's not.
It's a pity that we don't know when a bombshell will be dropped in some props because the right strategy would be to hit them with a huge payout before that, instead of having small payouts to be under the radar.
  • #17,715
  • Jul 13, 2023 3:29am Jul 13, 2023 3:29am
Quoting Takisd
{quote} Its pretty obvious by now you are working for fundedtradingplus......
Not true.
I post because you guys troll your favoured firms ( probably working for them) - so I post FTP and the likes of the 5% ( 5 percenters) for honest comparison.
The more you post vitriol then the more I will seek out honest alternatives to your paymasters.
every Saint has a past. Every Sinner has a Future
  • #17,716
  • Jul 13, 2023 3:31am Jul 13, 2023 3:31am
Quoting turnip15
{quote} Plus these guys also have no time limit and are equal or better than most stuff you guys throw up https://the5ers.com
They have the news rule and only 100K max capital, which is very very little (and scaling is slow for someone not risking a lot).

Every prop has weak points, although some weak points lead to immediate exclusion, like trailing DD in FT+.
  • #17,717
  • Jul 13, 2023 3:49am Jul 13, 2023 3:49am
Quoting turnip15
Not true. I post because you guys troll your favoured firms ( probably working for them) - so I post FTP and the likes of the 5% ( 5 percenters) for honest comparison. The more you post vitriol then the more I will seek out honest alternatives to your paymasters.
-Nonsense.
  • #17,718
  • Jul 13, 2023 4:21am Jul 13, 2023 4:21am
Here's a video on what one guy thinks works with an approach to trading ( not gambling) with a firm like the 5%percenters
Inserted Video
every Saint has a past. Every Sinner has a Future
  • #17,719
  • Jul 13, 2023 4:23am Jul 13, 2023 4:23am
And the company has no time limit

https://the5ers.com/?ref=7750
https://the5ers.com/faqs/
every Saint has a past. Every Sinner has a Future
  • #17,720
  • Jul 13, 2023 4:30am Jul 13, 2023 4:30am
FTMO: (via twitter)
The 30 and 60 calendar days Trading Periods are gone. The Unlimited Trading Period is here! Are you ready to embrace the future? Don't rush your trades, let them unfold, and take as much time as you need to get to your Profit Target. We also prepared a 10% discount available today on all FTMO Challenges to celebrate this exciting news!
https://twitter.com/FTMO_com/status/1679420031111667713

Now this becomes the standard
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