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  • #15,181
  • Apr 21, 2023 9:38am Apr 21, 2023 9:38am
Vitore (and others using or considering to use BeSpoke), I just read something in the prop group that I'm not sure if it's clear to everybody. It was not to me when I read their FAQs.

They have the news rules (+/- 2 minutes). The rule says this:
"Yes, you can trade during the news on all challenge and evaluation accounts.
On the funded accounts news trading is allowed, however if a trade is closed or opened 2 minutes before or after red folder news, then this will be considered a soft breach and any profit made will not count towards the profit split upon pay-out. although you will still be able to trade on your account."

However, something that surprised me is that ALL red news affects ALL trades. Which means that if you're trading USDCAD and there is a GBP red news you can't have a trade on CAD during those 4 minutes. Or if you have a SPX positions this may be affected by any red news in JPY.

In fact, this is not hidden if we read the rule literally. But people may understand that this is only for red news related to the instrument they are trading. The guy from BeSpoke in the group confirmed this and says that it's something they may change in the future.

I just wanted to warn everybody to avoid people being caught in this.
  • #15,182
  • Apr 21, 2023 9:52am Apr 21, 2023 9:52am
Quoting Capablanca
however if a trade is closed or opened 2 minutes before or after red folder news
-Maybe Takisd or someone can clarify, but I've always wondered about whether or not such firms that employ these rules could simple disable trading during that time?

Quoting Capablanca
then this will be considered a soft breach and any profit made will not count towards the profit split upon pay-out.
-Profits won't count, but violations probably count, right? Maybe this answers my first question.
  • #15,183
  • Apr 21, 2023 10:29am Apr 21, 2023 10:29am
Quoting Nsak3y
{quote}-Maybe Takisd or someone can clarify, but I've always wondered about whether or not such firms that employ these rules could simple disable trading during that time? {quote}-Profits won't count, but violations probably count, right? Maybe this answers my first question.
I think MFF has been highlighting the reason why in code lately. Traders don't understand news conditions. So news comes, trader behaves like a 5 yr old and posts negative crap everywhere because they decided to trade a period where there is no liquidity.
The number of times i have seen "Their liquidity providers are shit" because a guy rolled the dice during news..... yikes. I suspect that rule is to lower reputation damage more than anything because the userbase doesn't know what they are trading.

The period where a user will face certain slippage and spread widening is news. The period where most traders go far off the spectrum with conspiracy accusations about a company is news. The funniest one is "they purposely slipped me"... Most of these firms have way too many customers to be focusing specifically on one user to slip. The funny thing is, the better trading conditions are at the companies who have their own servers that are not broker controlled.

Maybe that answers the question, but truthfully, forex brokers look forward to news because b-books are most successful during those events.

Oh I forgot to mention as well, if you disable news time, or ban news trading, you are able to get away with fairy land trading conditions as the opportunity to take advantage of fake conditions is mostly present during volatility.
  • #15,184
  • Apr 21, 2023 10:47am Apr 21, 2023 10:47am
Quoting Takisd
{quote} I think MFF has been highlighting the reason why in code lately. Traders don't understand news conditions. So news comes, trader behaves like a 5 yr old and posts negative crap everywhere because they decided to trade a period where there is no liquidity. The number of times i have seen "Their liquidity providers are shit" because a guy rolled the dice during news..... yikes. I suspect that rule is to lower reputation damage more than anything because the userbase doesn't know what they are trading. The period where a user will face certain...
Reversing this comment, when we see props with low or no slippage during news then we should be afraid because they are prone to suffer big losses. I remember TPT would respect TP or SL without any slippage if those happened to be hit during news time.
  • #15,185
  • Apr 21, 2023 10:51am Apr 21, 2023 10:51am
Quoting Takisd
Maybe that answers the question
-Thanks. I guess I was mostly wondering if a firm could simply disable all trading during a red news event, so that no traders could open/close trades during that time. I mean, if they are going to have a rule that prohibits it, then why not just disable trading for that 4 minutes to avoid all of the fuss?

But as you say and was previously-eluded to, some firms may actually want such traps in place, I suppose.
  • #15,186
  • Apr 21, 2023 10:56am Apr 21, 2023 10:56am
Quoting Capablanca
when we see props with low or no slippage during news then we should be afraid because they are prone to suffer big losses.
-Yes. This has been discussed here before, and I think that some traders are actually looking for such opportunities, which is why we see so many traders looking at new firms and jumping around.

It kind of has me scratching my head, because if traders would just invest the time to learn how to trade properly, then they wouldn't need to rabidly look for such artificial shortcuts.
  • #15,187
  • Edited 11:19am Apr 21, 2023 11:07am | Edited 11:19am
Quoting Vitore
{quote} Indices are crazy this week. It started last week already. Just returned back to 0% profit for the week
The past 2 weeks have been completely dead trading the Dow. There's just not much going on, the daily atr's have fallen off a cliff. I rarely have off days trading the indices and today will be my 10th off day so far this month. I'm in the middle of a challenge and this is looking like a reset month unless things pick up.
  • #15,188
  • Apr 21, 2023 11:15am Apr 21, 2023 11:15am
Quoting Capablanca
{quote} Reversing this comment, when we see props with low or no slippage during news then we should be afraid because they are prone to suffer big losses. I remember TPT would respect TP or SL without any slippage if those happened to be hit during news time.
You just described the fantasy land feeds of FT + TPT and both are gone.
  • #15,189
  • Apr 21, 2023 11:15am Apr 21, 2023 11:15am
Quoting Nsak3y
{quote}-Thanks. I guess I was mostly wondering if a firm could simply disable all trading during a red news event, so that no traders could open/close trades during that time. I mean, if they are going to have a rule that prohibits it, then why not just disable trading for that 4 minutes to avoid all of the fuss? But as you say and was previously-eluded to, some firms may actually want such traps in place, I suppose.
The goal is likely to make more people violate the account. If you disable the trading completely, you are gifting the trader discipline they don't require.

The fairy land conditions thing is likely also part of the trap, because the guys who buy the scam EA's will find with perfect conditions during news it prints money. So they apply it to their account and voila violated.
  • #15,190
  • Apr 21, 2023 11:24am Apr 21, 2023 11:24am
Re slippage, the slippage compared to real market (Currenex, lmax etc with same ticket sizes) on the prop firms I use, FTMO MFF and previously TFT TFF and e8, is less than real market like way less, especially on exotics and metals.

The key component is the ticket size, some prop traders think they are legitimately capable of taking up 1%+ of daily volume on a particular pair. The traders on prop firms are trading significantly larger sizes than they would on a retail trading account, so the slippage should be far worse than it is considering the top of the book EURUSD before a spread of 0.5 is at best, 100,000 notional or 1 lot.

Once upon a time a few brokers tried to be "true ecn" and failed miserably because the retail traders really couldnt stand the slippage. Why trade at the legit one when the non legit one will pay me my withdrawal anyway? It is the reason that gain capital and oanda got so big. Then IC and exness and a few others appeared and their goal was to tighten the quote so much that the number of users gets so large that order matching kicks in and the spread is possible to be legit to some extent as you are just collecting both sides of the ticket. But until you are absolutely massive matching doesn't really work so well and so b-book is the most plausible strategy if the quote is worse than liquidity. Sending flow out is generally the least profitable option as your conditions likely are smoothed and so you are paying real spread and eating the difference + the per million fee to execute + putting up way more margin because the leverage is significantly lower for the broker. From a dealing perspective a broker that doesn't have an insane number of active traders will pick out the toxic and book damaging traders and subject them to the market (where most of them will lose) so as to keep a good delta on their b-book.
  • #15,191
  • Apr 21, 2023 11:24am Apr 21, 2023 11:24am
Quoting Takisd
The goal is likely to make more people violate the account.
-Thanks. That is also what I suspect.
  • #15,192
  • Apr 21, 2023 11:55am Apr 21, 2023 11:55am
Quoting Takisd
Re slippage, the slippage compared to real market (Currenex, lmax etc with same ticket sizes) on the prop firms I use, FTMO MFF and previously TFT TFF and e8, is less than real market like way less, especially on exotics and metals. The key component is the ticket size, some prop traders think they are legitimately capable of taking up 1%+ of daily volume on a particular pair. The traders on prop firms are trading significantly larger sizes than they would on a retail trading account, so the slippage should be far worse than it is considering the...
Takisd, quick offtopic: What was the broker that you said was not too bad, together with ICMarkets ? Was that Tickmill or Pepperstone ? I have not bookmarked that post and can't find it.
  • #15,193
  • Apr 21, 2023 12:12pm Apr 21, 2023 12:12pm
Quoting Capablanca
Vitore (and others using or considering to use BeSpoke), I just read something in the prop group that I'm not sure if it's clear to everybody. It was not to me when I read their FAQs. They have the news rules (+/- 2 minutes). The rule says this: "Yes, you can trade during the news on all challenge and evaluation accounts. On the funded accounts news trading is allowed, however if a trade is closed or opened 2 minutes before or after red folder news, then this will be considered a soft breach and any...
Hi Capa - thanks for the info. Would you have a link to this particular response? The thing is I searched the Discord and found another response from (most likely) another mod which contradicts this information:
"If its USD news and you are trading GBPJPY then its fine because GBPJPY wont be affected by the news"
https://discord.com/channels/1028152...04897564078170

It would be good to know the truth as what mod says does not need to be always true. But which one was correct this time?
Money is made by sitting, not trading
  • #15,194
  • Apr 21, 2023 12:13pm Apr 21, 2023 12:13pm
Quoting Capablanca
{quote} Takisd, quick offtopic: What was the broker that you said was not too bad, together with ICMarkets ? Was that Tickmill or Pepperstone ? I have not bookmarked that post and can't find it.
Tickmill
  • #15,195
  • Apr 21, 2023 12:22pm Apr 21, 2023 12:22pm
Quoting pipmaster77
{quote} Tickmill
Yeh tickmill. Them and IC are probably only ones worth using in terms of conditions + safety. Big fan of Tickmill staff, not big fan of IC staff but IC conditions are slightly better.
  • #15,196
  • Apr 21, 2023 12:35pm Apr 21, 2023 12:35pm
@ Takisd

I recall @ one point you were trading up to 200 lots with MFF. That's = to about 40 lots of dow mini futures with only 5 lots available top of book (25 mff lots), so what was the slippage like to fill that many lots live @ MFF?
  • #15,197
  • Apr 21, 2023 12:55pm Apr 21, 2023 12:55pm
Quoting Vitore
{quote} Hi Capa - thanks for the info. Would you have a link to this particular response? The thing is I searched the Discord and found another response from (most likely) another mod which contradicts this information: "If its USD news and you are trading GBPJPY then its fine because GBPJPY wont be affected by the news" https://discord.com/channels/1028152...04897564078170 It would be good to know the truth as what mod says does not need to be always true. But which one was correct this time?
This was answered by the CEO himself so I guess is more "strong" than that one. And I think that both the question and the answer were not ambiguous so apparently they do have this restriction.

The question/comment:
https://t.me/propfirms/323754

The answer from the CEO:
https://t.me/propfirms/323758

Edit: I'm copying the question and the answer for those that don't have Telegram. I think it's usefull information

Question:
Has any changes been made to your news trading rule?
Last time I looked at going with Bespoke, that was the only deal breaker for me.
The aspect of the news rule I like is that you don't fail an account if someone trades within the prohibited news time window, only profit made will not be counted towards payout.
The part I didn't like was it covers all red folder news regardless of what instrument I'm trading.
If I'm trading only NASDAQ which should only be related to USA news, I will still be mindful of red folder news of all other currencies even not related to USD.
I think this needs to be modified. Someone trading EURUSD shouldn't be bothered by red folder news of CNY

Answer:
Its definitely something that’s commonly spoken about within the company.
It’s leaning towards being removed, it’s just ensuring we have the correct statistics before making decisions.
  • #15,198
  • Apr 21, 2023 1:30pm Apr 21, 2023 1:30pm
In case someone is interested, I noticed this campaign on Stocknet: Eid Mubarak, Traders! Use code HAPPYEID for 21% off all accounts until Wednesday 26th April
  • #15,199
  • Apr 21, 2023 1:35pm Apr 21, 2023 1:35pm
Quoting CableJ
@ Takisd I recall @ one point you were trading up to 200 lots with MFF. That's = to about 40 lots of dow mini futures with only 5 lots available top of book (25 mff lots), so what was the slippage like to fill that many lots live @ MFF?
It was managable, the range was 0-4 ticks but i lowered the size a while ago down to 10x3. Too many knifes edge situations and not enough concerntration so lowered my risk significantly.
  • #15,200
  • Apr 21, 2023 4:18pm Apr 21, 2023 4:18pm
Quoting Capablanca
{quote} This was answered by the CEO himself so I guess is more "strong" than that one. And I think that both the question and the answer were not ambiguous so apparently they do have this restriction. The question/comment: https://t.me/propfirms/323754 The answer from the CEO: https://t.me/propfirms/323758 Edit: I'm copying the question and the answer for those that don't have Telegram. I think it's usefull information Question: Has any changes been made to your news trading rule? Last time I looked at going with Bespoke,...
I'm still not so sure about the rule. The guy assumes the rule applies irrespective of the instrument traded (from the question it is not clear based on what he assumes so)

The CEO neither confirms nor denies that assumption. He only states that the rule might be removed (completely?). Such as if he didn't want reveal the actual scope of the rule?

Anyways, thanks for bringing up this topic. I asked Kaler for clarification. Let's see if he responds.
Money is made by sitting, not trading
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