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  • #14,681
  • Apr 1, 2023 4:36am Apr 1, 2023 4:36am
Quoting Vitore
{quote} Money arrived to my Deel account 17 hrs after my initial payout request.
Thank a lot for keeping us updated Vitore. It's important to have this kind of feedback, specially from the ones that are around this topic for a long time.

I remember these guys of MFFx were flogged in the prop telegram group because they asked a trader if he had accounts in other props and when he said yes they asked him to see their accounts. At the time there were quite a lot of bad reactions and they simple paid the guy.

Your payout is already significant and it's good that it went smoothly.

Means nothing of course (TPT was paying for a long time) but at least know that they are paying at this time.
  • #14,682
  • Apr 1, 2023 4:49am Apr 1, 2023 4:49am
Quoting CableJ
{quote} Seems to me like e8 is starting to get desperate for cash like The prop trading months before their eventual collapse. When these firms start changing up and adding programs with rules way more favorable than the best existing 2 step evaluation prop (MFF)... I start getting nervous.
I have to disagree here regarding rules. They doubled time time to complete challenges but on target vs DD they're still behind MFF (and they were very behind).

8%/10% for E8 vs 8%/12% for MFF 1st phase
5%/10% or E8 vs 5%/12% for MFF 2nd phase

Not saying that they are not hungry for cash, who knows what's behind closed doors, but on metrics I don't see anything massive here and still behind MFF.

Doubling/increasing the time is something I would not be surprised to see in the established props. There's already some recent companies giving unlimited time (if I remember well MyFundedFx, Bespoke and Bigpip).
  • #14,683
  • Apr 1, 2023 5:25am Apr 1, 2023 5:25am
Quoting Capablanca
{quote} I have to disagree here regarding rules. They doubled time time to complete challenges but on target vs DD they're still behind MFF (and they were very behind). 8%/10% for E8 vs 8%/12% for MFF 1st phase 5%/10% or E8 vs 5%/12% for MFF 2nd phase Not saying that they are not hungry for cash, who knows what's behind closed doors, but on metrics I don't see anything massive here and still behind MFF. Doubling/increasing the time is something I would not be surprised to see in the established props. There's already some recent companies giving...
agree, my funded fx added on my spreadsheet, if you consider your points, they are ranked as ratio very low due to the payout 80% and limit 8% total DD

but, they are unlimited, this is something that should deserve some point more. Ok broker is 8cap that nobody likes but the unlimited time is something good
in holiday till end of November
  • #14,684
  • Apr 1, 2023 7:20am Apr 1, 2023 7:20am
Quoting CableJ
{quote} If I recall correctly, you're even more risk averse @ 2% max drawdown (20%) of total 10%/12% drawdown correct? The message doesn't seem to register with some folks.
I risk 2% of total loss, in real time, so risk gets adjusted as equity changes. I keep a spreadhseet of position sizes for each firm based on risk and ADR of the instrument. I am playing with increasing sizes by 50%......so 3% at some firms as I have room for 50% more DD and this will increase my income 50%. If I can do this and keep MAX DD below 1% of equity (10% of MAX LOSS)......this will be my holy grail of MM.
  • #14,685
  • Apr 1, 2023 7:30am Apr 1, 2023 7:30am
Quoting Capablanca
{quote} I have to disagree here regarding rules. They doubled time time to complete challenges but on target vs DD they're still behind MFF (and they were very behind). 8%/10% for E8 vs 8%/12% for MFF 1st phase 5%/10% or E8 vs 5%/12% for MFF 2nd phase Not saying that they are not hungry for cash, who knows what's behind closed doors, but on metrics I don't see anything massive here and still behind MFF. Doubling/increasing the time is something I would not be surprised to see in the established props. There's already some recent companies giving...
So, this begs the question.......
1. Are these firms offering the unlimited time truly looking for traders as I would assume pass rate should be much higher and the model is actually going to be copy trading? I would assume challenge fee income SHOULD be much lower here
........OR.......
2. They have compiled the research and it shows that folks fail just as quickly and as often regardless of the time given, therefore not affecting challenge fee income whatsoever?
I mean, if you have any trading skill whatsoever and understand risk management, this model SHOULD have a 100% pass rate. Key phrase here being "any trading skill whatsoever"
  • #14,686
  • Apr 1, 2023 8:48am Apr 1, 2023 8:48am
Quoting pipmaster77
{quote} So, this begs the question....... 1. Are these firms offering the unlimited time truly looking for traders as I would assume pass rate should be much higher and the model is actually going to be copy trading? I would assume challenge fee income SHOULD be much lower here ........OR....... 2. They have compiled the research and it shows that folks fail just as quickly and as often regardless of the time given, therefore not affecting challenge fee income whatsoever? I mean, if you have any trading skill whatsoever and understand risk management,...
2. for sure! rates are too high... there is margin for better deals for us.
in holiday till end of November
  • #14,687
  • Apr 1, 2023 10:21am Apr 1, 2023 10:21am
Quoting Capablanca
{quote} It's a pity that their payout process is the worst in all the major props. You lose 2 business days in each cycle of 14 days which is tottally unacceptable. And if you decide to receive through crypto they charge about 50 USD of gas fees for a transaction that cost 2 or 3 USD.
TFT is even worse. I don't have my own experience but they state even 72 hrs for approval during which you also cannot trade. It's for their Royal account but the other types are not worth buying
Money is made by sitting, not trading
  • #14,688
  • Apr 1, 2023 10:28am Apr 1, 2023 10:28am
Quoting pipmaster77
{quote} So, this begs the question....... 1. Are these firms offering the unlimited time truly looking for traders as I would assume pass rate should be much higher and the model is actually going to be copy trading? I would assume challenge fee income SHOULD be much lower here ........OR....... 2. They have compiled the research and it shows that folks fail just as quickly and as often regardless of the time given, therefore not affecting challenge fee income whatsoever? I mean, if you have any trading skill whatsoever and understand risk management,...
2. Just a numbers game. Over 90% of traders fail also on their own accounts. Giving more time makes a small amount of traders not fail but at the same time they are getting much more clients to signup as trading without the time limit is much more appealing. People think that more time will turn the odds on their favor but in reality most people fail in forex because of poor risk management.
  • #14,689
  • Apr 1, 2023 10:32am Apr 1, 2023 10:32am
Quoting Vitore
{quote} TFT is even worse. I don't have my own experience but they state even 72 hrs for approval during which you also cannot trade. It's for their Royal account but the other types are not worth buying
Fair point. I haven't had a payout for a while in TFT.
Didn't they decreased it to 48 hours ? This would square them with TFT, with advantage to TFT because we can keep the trading history in a single account, instead of receiving a new account like in TFF.

I'm curious to see what does automatic payment means and if they will be respecting this time frame.
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  • #14,690
  • Apr 1, 2023 10:38am Apr 1, 2023 10:38am
Quoting Capablanca
{quote} Thank a lot for keeping us updated Vitore. It's important to have this kind of feedback, specially from the ones that are around this topic for a long time. I remember these guys of MFFx were flogged in the prop telegram group because they asked a trader if he had accounts in other props and when he said yes they asked him to see their accounts. At the time there were quite a lot of bad reactions and they simple paid the guy. Your payout is already significant and it's good that it went smoothly. Means nothing of course (TPT was paying for...
My pleasure to share some experience here as I also learnt a lot here so at least I can give a little back.

For me personally MFFx seems to be the best one overall right now. You know I had some recent fight with MFF which otherwise would be my #1 but their approach just disappointed me so at least for some time I won't trade there. But i might give them another chance if they release the long time promissed cTrader

I also like E8 a lot but they are still too expensive on the only 2 instruments i trade ie SP500 and XAU.

I also decided to try TFT but I'm already pissed off by their wide spreads (SP for 0.98 and xau 0.17) which BTW they advertised to be much tighter on their website (SP 0.33 and xau 0.12) and on top of which they dont hesitate to charge another $5/lot. But they promise they work on the cost reduction so let's see

I'll keep you informed here about my next adventures
Money is made by sitting, not trading
  • #14,691
  • Apr 1, 2023 11:03am Apr 1, 2023 11:03am
I will try also MFFX for that. No time limit. Unfortunately my time is a mess, so I just can add other stress of this 30 days count.
in holiday till end of November
  • #14,692
  • Apr 1, 2023 11:05am Apr 1, 2023 11:05am
Quoting Vitore
on top of which they dont hesitate to charge another $5/lot. But they promise they work on the cost reduction
-No offense to you, Vitore, but I cannot help but smile when I read this. As if we are so lucky that they will work on reducing this imaginary cost for us.

But seriously, if a prop firm is really paying commissions to a broker on every trade that is taking place on a demo account, then I will gladly punch myself in the face.
  • #14,693
  • Apr 1, 2023 11:08am Apr 1, 2023 11:08am
if you see any error, please report to me.

MFFX phase 1 is an absolute balance drawdown? not moved to initial balance like FTP and TFT?
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in holiday till end of November
  • #14,694
  • Apr 1, 2023 11:40am Apr 1, 2023 11:40am
Quoting Vitore
{quote} My pleasure to share some experience here as I also learnt a lot here so at least I can give a little back. For me personally MFFx seems to be the best one overall right now. You know I had some recent fight with MFF which otherwise would be my #1 but their approach just disappointed me so at least for some time I won't trade there. But i might give them another chance if they release the long time promissed cTrader I also like E8 a lot but they are still too expensive on the only 2 instruments i trade ie SP500 and...
We already discussed that a couple of pages ago but to me pricing is the main issue to start on MFFx. But glad to see that they're paying. Let's hope they survive.
  • #14,695
  • Apr 1, 2023 12:16pm Apr 1, 2023 12:16pm
Quoting Nsak3y
{quote}-No offense to you, Vitore, but I cannot help but smile when I read this. As if we are so lucky that they will work on reducing this imaginary cost for us. But seriously, if a prop firm is really paying commissions to a broker on every trade that is taking place on a demo account, then I will gladly punch myself in the face.
There is a reason why 8cap for example is offering this solution: https://www.eightcap.partners/prop-trading-company/

They either charge a fee per account or based on volume or both. My guess is both.
  • #14,696
  • Apr 1, 2023 12:33pm Apr 1, 2023 12:33pm
Quoting Nsak3y
{quote}-No offense to you, Vitore, but I cannot help but smile when I read this. As if we are so lucky that they will work on reducing this imaginary cost for us. But seriously, if a prop firm is really paying commissions to a broker on every trade that is taking place on a demo account, then I will gladly punch myself in the face.
No worries You're right, I should have said they announced commissions reduction (from $5 on all instruments to $3 on forex only) and spread improvement.

On the other hand, is it too naive to assume they pay commission on their own live account? And if they do (and copy some trades to the market) then it would make sense for them to replicate the same conditions to all funded and evaluation demo accounts as well. Improving those conditions would then depend on their negotiation with Eightcap.
Money is made by sitting, not trading
  • #14,697
  • Edited 12:48pm Apr 1, 2023 12:37pm | Edited 12:48pm
Quoting Capablanca
{quote} We already discussed that a couple of pages ago but to me pricing is the main issue to start on MFFx. But glad to see that they're paying. Let's hope they survive.
I joined them with their last promo which was 12% discount + 110% refund + 5% profit of phase 1+2 (which means I got refunded 268% of the fee). Their standard pricing is not competitive I must agree

EDIT:
For anyone interested, currently they offer 7% discount + 125% refund + 85% split first payout
Promo code: "CONQUER"
Money is made by sitting, not trading
  • #14,698
  • Apr 1, 2023 1:21pm Apr 1, 2023 1:21pm
Quoting TraderTero
There is a reason why 8cap for example is offering this solution: https://www.eightcap.partners/prop-trading-company/ They either charge a fee per account or based on volume or both. My guess is both.
-Yes, but my point is that the commission on the trader side is imaginary, so claiming to work on improving it is kind of a joke.

Having a higher, imaginary commission is really just an artificial way to increase the firm's share while decreasing the trader's share. It is not really a matter of trying since it's only about greed and not negotiation.

Quoting Vitore
On the other hand, is it too naive to assume they pay commission on their own live account? And if they do (and copy some trades to the market) then it would make sense for them to replicate the same conditions to all funded and evaluation demo accounts as well.
-It is not naive to think that a firm might have their own, live account. I can agree with that. But I would propose that it may be naive to think that there are a meaningful number of traders getting copied over, in most cases, that could justify the act of charging an imaginary commission across all accounts for the purpose of covering their costs; if we want to think of it like that.

I might even propose that charging an imaginary commission may not even be necessary at all. If you think about it, it may be little different than changing the profit split by a negligible amount to cover the difference, because that's all that is happening, really; you are adjusting numbers so that the profit split is either higher or lower for each side.

It's all kind of silly when you think about it, because most of the numbers are just artificial anyways. The money given to the firm is real. The money that the firm gives to traders and brokers is real. Everything in between is kind of flexible in nature. So maybe at the end of the day, it all comes down to greed and/or margins/strategy.

It brings up an interesting thought, though... as to whether or not traders would be willing to take a smaller profit split for 0 spread and commissions. I suspect that some might. It would be interesting to see what the numbers would need to look like in order to make that work. I suppose that it would need to be a one-size-fits-all scenario, to cover the differences across various assets. Probably wouldn't make sense for some pairs.
  • #14,699
  • Apr 1, 2023 1:46pm Apr 1, 2023 1:46pm
Quoting Nsak3y
{quote}-Yes, but my point is that the commission on the trader side is imaginary, so claiming to work on improving it is kind of a joke.
I totally agree that everything is just imaginary.

Quoting Nsak3y
{quote}Having a higher, imaginary commission is really just an artificial way to increase the firm's share while decreasing the trader's share. It is not really a matter of trying since it's only about greed and not negotiation.
That's why i reformulated my statement. I think they might be trying to get better conditions for themselves and subsequently reflect part of it on the imaginary demo trading conditions

Quoting Nsak3y
{quote}But I would propose that it may be naive to think that there are a meaningful number of traders getting copied over
I don't think that. The number would be very small and very carefully selected.

Quoting Nsak3y
{quote}It brings up an interesting thought, though... as to whether or not traders would be willing to take a smaller profit split for 0 spread and commissions.
May be they started high so that to be able to sell their gradual improvements, who knows. It's all just a game with numbers, no more, no less
Money is made by sitting, not trading
  • #14,700
  • Apr 1, 2023 2:06pm Apr 1, 2023 2:06pm
Quoting Vitore
{quote} I joined them with their last promo which was 12% discount + 110% refund + 5% profit of phase 1+2 (which means I got refunded 268% of the fee). Their standard pricing is not competitive I must agree EDIT: For anyone interested, currently they offer 7% discount + 125% refund + 85% split first payout Promo code: "CONQUER"
why not competitive? standard means that they have different spreads?
in holiday till end of November
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