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  • #14,041
  • Feb 20, 2023 4:53am Feb 20, 2023 4:53am
Quoting Paloduro
{quote} Can you belive that Takeprofittrader have a rule that fail your test if you make 50 % of the total profit in one day? I m force to make doble the original profit targets of 9k now they are asking me to make over 18k profits to pass instead of the original 9k I will abandon this firm. i WILL FIND A BETTER FIRM AND I PREFER TO PAY A NEW FEE TO OTHER IRM INSTEAD OF KEEPING BEEN PUNISHED FFOR MAKING PROFITS . ====================================== You had 2 trading days, not counting today. Since for example: The trading day of February 15 begins...
in other way, if you make 9,275.00 in a single day, going above the 50% of total profits in one day, takeproffittraders.will take back the 9,275,00 and they will ask you to make the same amount 9,275 back in order to pass your test after you allready passed the original profit target that was 9k, so now they want you to reach 18,551 profit target
AS you said sometime you have to pay to see that this is the worse rule that a profirm use.
ONLY AN IDIOT ASK FOR 2 YEARS EXPERIENCE TO TRADE ANY SYSTEM
  • #14,042
  • Feb 20, 2023 7:58am Feb 20, 2023 7:58am
Quoting Takisd
I don't post here much anymore because of the amount of nonsense going on in the prop space and the people who comment on it, ultimately its growing and as more newbies come in, I have lost interest in the conversation, If trading conditions, like most things in life are too good to be true, they probably are, and in the case of almost all prop firms, the trading conditions are better than real conditions.
Could not agree more on this, more and more reading this forum, I can tell that also this forum lost its value and purpose. I can only see a lot of frustrated traders here...
  • #14,043
  • Feb 20, 2023 9:41am Feb 20, 2023 9:41am
Quoting nomadtrading
{quote} Could not agree more on this, more and more reading this forum, I can tell that also this forum lost its value and purpose. I can only see a lot of frustrated traders here...
Personally, I am happy as can be. I personally communicate regularly with several others doing great as well.
What we all have in common........we use the same firms who have proven to be reliable, pay, have great conditions and straightforward rules. Same ones we mention over and over and over and over and over...........
Seems the theme with the frustration is from the folks trying the new companies with rules designed to make you fail and no payout proof BEFORE they have secured the 2 mil with the proven firms.
  • #14,044
  • Edited 10:34am Feb 20, 2023 9:46am | Edited 10:34am
Quoting nomadtrading
{quote} Could not agree more on this, more and more reading this forum, I can tell that also this forum lost its value and purpose. I can only see a lot of frustrated traders here...
This is not fair comment. I for one have posted information on at least three different prop firms in the last month or so. Plus there are many comments from thread regulars that help people to pass the challenge successfully.
It's true that some comments are not really related to the thread title but that is up to the moderator to handle
  • #14,045
  • Feb 20, 2023 11:01am Feb 20, 2023 11:01am
My comment was not to devalue this forum space or the people who want to participate in it. Just to acknowledge that it seems to me to be a revolving door of the same questions and answers. If a new firm pops up, it is looked at and the same things pop up. Nothing is different really and nothing is changing. The model is as lucrative as it can get to be frank and people who expect more are only hurting themselves. Thus the conversation is fairly dull. There are 4 firms who have stood the hands of time, its more than enough capital and more than enough business risk to just use those. Jumping on the next firm with a youtube video and a backstory of how they are a pro trader who wants to give back is silly, especially when they are using OTB solutions.

From here the discussion should be more relevant about the practices of the remaining firms, without the blinkers on because you have an account there and a glass full of hopium. There are a lot of trash firms out there, doing trashy things every day, but some people are still blinded by some strange non conformist mentality and refuse to suggest that the firm they are using may be awful.

Whilst TFT has stood the test of time, it still uses eightcap which to me is forever a red flag. They are beholden to someone who they are probably bigger than just by volume as eightcap was never really a large broker to begin with, let alone a legit one.
TFF FTMO MFF are the others. They have cleaned themselves up a fair bit and are now real businesses which have proven through adversity they can do it.

Eightcap continues to facilitate scams like firstclassforexfunds. Instagrammers and commercial members continue to post how if you trust them they can pass your account for a fee equal to the challenge fee, and most of them are still rotten failures, some of them even opened prop firms. The third party risk is enormous for the smaller firms who don't have enough other volume to cover it. Yet the risk volume is the only volume new firms can get and thus the firms collapse on themselves. So long as this practice is on-going, regulation will be coming. Not filtering out rubbish will lead to regulation and it is quite clear that for at least the firms that operate in the US (operate, not domicile) they are likely to be in a lot of hot water soon. Eightcap should never have onboarded them and their intermediary should never have allowed them to buy the OTB solutions. There are a significant number of laws that have been broken in doing so.

Regulation is coming, hopefully that makes a change in the conversation but does not knock everyone out of the marketplace.

I'm around, just not loud and I most definitely do not hold any resentment towards any forum participant, I apologize if someone felt that way.
  • #14,046
  • Feb 20, 2023 12:04pm Feb 20, 2023 12:04pm
Quoting Takisd
My comment was not to devalue this forum space or the people who want to participate in it. Just to acknowledge that it seems to me to be a revolving door of the same questions and answers. If a new firm pops up, it is looked at and the same things pop up. Nothing is different really and nothing is changing. The model is as lucrative as it can get to be frank and people who expect more are only hurting themselves. Thus the conversation is fairly dull. There are 4 firms who have stood the hands of time, its more than enough capital and more than...
Wasn't going to post, but I feel compelled to........ This post is so dead on, it is for the same reason I am constantly encouraging folks to stick with the proven firms. Of course, I am met with, "but things will never improve if new firms don't come in, we won't get better offerings, yada, yada, yada....".
You are correct, things are as good as they can possibly get and the more scams we allow the more likely regulation comes. If nobody uses these scams, we survive longer without regulation. It's so damn simple, but people are so damn ignorant.....
  • #14,047
  • Feb 20, 2023 2:05pm Feb 20, 2023 2:05pm
Quoting pipmaster77
{image} {quote} An instant funding program, just like all of the others already in existence, offers no benefit over trading one's own account if the fee is equal to or greater than the DD being offered.....actually it offers a 10 fold disadvantage...... Why would any intelligent person pay $500 for a $500 DD or $5K for a 5K DD and then give up 50% on top.....Instant funding is designed for the gullible and naive, when you plug the numbers at say a 5%ers, Lux, or CTI you wind up with upwards of 10-15 TIMES in a personal account after 10 "scales"...
I know your disappoint for Instant Fundings.

But because it is a business, and peoples wants also instant funding, I just ask to you to make so a proposal of how it would be.

While for the challenge business it's much more complicate matter that we don't know how it really works will we will find a real guide-statistics to this business.

At the end the Instant Funding is much more like a traditional and transparent way to understand what you get, while what I see in youtube, the challenges stimulate jus the gambling, few trades with high risk, at account destructions for 99% of users, even professional on this gambling.

Let's put in another way, what a broker should offer, as program, to select top traders and have them as prop trader in their brokerage firm?
in holiday till end of November
  • #14,048
  • Feb 20, 2023 2:44pm Feb 20, 2023 2:44pm
Quoting forexbali
{quote} I know your disappoint for Instant Fundings. But because it is a business, and peoples wants also instant funding, I just ask to you to make so a proposal of how it would be. While for the challenge business it's much more complicate matter that we don't know how it really works will we will find a real guide-statistics to this business. At the end the Instant Funding is much more like a traditional and transparent way to understand what you get, while what I see in youtube, the challenges stimulate jus the gambling, few trades with high...
I understand your point on challenges. However, they CAN be traded responsibly.
My point on instant funding is YOU ARE NOT REALLY GETTING FUNDED. At best you are paying for your own DD and the giving up 50%. Just trade your own account. To scale someone when they make 10% with a 5% DD means they flipped the account 2x but yet they only double your account and DD....that's an even bigger scam than the fee being greater than the original DD.........the firm is making more and more profit everytime they scale you.......that firms profit comes SOLELY from what you would have made on a personal account.
Not only are you not getting funded........YOU ARE LOSING MONEY. Completely pointless.
  • #14,049
  • Feb 20, 2023 4:23pm Feb 20, 2023 4:23pm
In order of value to the trader:

1. Challenges- pass 2 stages and wind up with 12-20X your investment. Fee is also refunded, so literally risk free or reinvest fee to scale to larger capital
2. Personal account- Exact match $$ for $$. You invest $10K, you have $10K available. No refund of original investment, so money is at risk ALWAYS. Pretty simple.
3. Instant Funding- Pay more in fee vs loss allowed. Start behind the 8ball. When you earn 200%, they scale you 100%, the longer you stay, the more you lose.

Of course, on #2, you could pull the original investment once you double or triple it, making the account risk free.

It really is this simple folks.

Now, which one WILL YOU choose?
  • #14,050
  • Feb 21, 2023 3:22am Feb 21, 2023 3:22am
I anyone here with Finotive funding? Any bad experience? I want to try them because unlimited time to reach profit target 7.5% only
  • #14,051
  • Feb 21, 2023 3:40am Feb 21, 2023 3:40am
Quoting erlas7
I anyone here with Finotive funding? Any bad experience? I want to try them because unlimited time to reach profit target 7.5% only
I had a funded account with them and received a payout (only one). And payout was the fastest I ever received (requested in the morning and money in Deel in the afternoon). Payout was after one week, which I think is the fastest in the industry. Spreads are good and execution was decent. That's all I can say.
Then I blown my account and did not retry because they had that rule that profits were limited to 25% after one blown account, until we paid back the losses.
I may retry them now because they eliminated that rule.
Refund is only done after one month if balance is above initial and not after one week.

Anyway, check carefully their consistency rules and see if they apply to you. Besides the daily loss, they have also another rule that prevent you from losing more than of 50% of daily loss in a single position (or multiple positions in same instrument). This can be challenging to manage dynamically, depending on your trading style.
  • #14,052
  • Feb 21, 2023 4:21am Feb 21, 2023 4:21am
Quoting Capablanca
{quote} I had a funded account with them and received a payout (only one). And payout was the fastest I ever received (requested in the morning and money in Deel in the afternoon). Payout was after one week, which I think is the fastest in the industry. Spreads are good and execution was decent. That's all I can say. Then I blown my account and did not retry because they had that rule that profits were limited to 25% after one blown account, until we paid back the losses. I may retry them now because they eliminated that rule. Refund is only done...
Thank you. I know that rule of 50%. I think it suits me, I'm trading with small positions few different instruments. Probably will try a small account 10k
  • #14,053
  • Feb 21, 2023 6:51am Feb 21, 2023 6:51am
This is interesting - FTMO refuse to pay full amount. Challenge fees not enough?

Inserted Video
  • #14,054
  • Feb 21, 2023 7:20am Feb 21, 2023 7:20am
Quoting Bizziebee
This is interesting - FTMO refuse to pay full amount. Challenge fees not enough? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UXCFx8JkjbQ
100% bucket shop but we know FTMO isn't a place to build a trading career Those muppets got caught breaking FTMO rules, more fool them.
  • #14,055
  • Feb 21, 2023 11:24am Feb 21, 2023 11:24am
Be careful with Bespoke

Apparently Bespoke provide credentials for funded account before traders complete KYC stuff.

Apparently they don't warn traders that they need to do that and there was a guy that started to trade.

When he asked for the profit split they said he has not done the KYC. He did it but they deleted all profits he had before KYC.

The story is real because the CEO of Bespoke is in the group and interacted with the guy and said that it was written in the rules.


To me this can be written in the rules but it's clearly a shady behavior. If he had blown the account they would not bother. But, as he achieved a profit, they found a "legal" way to deny the payment.
What's the point in making credentials available before KYC, if your profits won't count ? This seems deliberate to have some reason to deny profits if the traders is not careful enough.
A company that behaves like this is not someone that I would trust on.
  • #14,056
  • Feb 21, 2023 11:52am Feb 21, 2023 11:52am
Quoting Bizziebee
This is interesting - FTMO refuse to pay full amount. Challenge fees not enough? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UXCFx8JkjbQ
It's hilarious. FTMO should thank those traders for having done so much money. Because if FTMO passes trades to the market, then FTMO also did a lot of money.
Or.....

Nobody can take these internet prop companies serious, even FTMO.
  • #14,057
  • Feb 21, 2023 11:54am Feb 21, 2023 11:54am
Quoting Capablanca
Be careful with Bespoke Apparently Bespoke provide credentials for funded account before traders complete KYC stuff. Apparently they don't warn traders that they need to do that and there was a guy that started to trade. When he asked for the profit split they said he has not done the KYC. He did it but they deleted all profits he had before KYC. The story is real because the CEO of Bespoke is in the group and interacted with the guy and said that it was written in the rules. To me this can be written in the rules but it's clearly a shady behavior....
That is pure scumbag behavior. I would be making a trip and beating the living shit out of someone.
  • #14,058
  • Feb 21, 2023 12:42pm Feb 21, 2023 12:42pm
Quoting pipmaster77
Yes, I always analyze this way when looking at the props..... If I have $10,000 personal account of which I can lose 100%, what is the equivalent at the prop firm, what are they charging me for that and how many times do I have to flip it? Use MFF as an example.....the equivalent to a $12K personal account would be their 100K eval.... they charge $475 if you use the 5% discount. I must earn 67% (8% with 12% DD) in phase 1 and 41%(5% with 12%DD) in phase 2..... so trading my $475 investment on my own would result in growth to $1,118 after the 2 stages...
As always, your post is based on the assumption that you will definitely pass the challenge whenever you want to take a challenge. The reality is the pass rate of MFF challenge is only about 2%. Even the greatest trader in the world cannot guarantee that he will certainly pass the challenge.
  • #14,059
  • Feb 21, 2023 5:25pm Feb 21, 2023 5:25pm
Quoting Bizziebee
This is interesting - FTMO refuse to pay full amount. Challenge fees not enough? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UXCFx8JkjbQ
I saw the video.

It is all about unique entries, stop loss, take profits by a set of traders.

As long as the money made was small, FTMO actually never bothered to check trades.

Once the money made was huge, they bothered to check the trade entries.

FTMO identified unique entries by a set of traders.

FTMO has the right to reject trades as we all knew unique entries by a group of traders is by " I trade for you " companies.

FTMO did right. They are legit and must be legit and survive to pay small traders like us.
Intraday only.
  • #14,060
  • Feb 21, 2023 10:32pm Feb 21, 2023 10:32pm
Quoting Fagin
{quote} 100% bucket shop but we know FTMO isn't a place to build a trading career Those muppets got caught breaking FTMO rules, more fool them.
I think the5ers is the best for serious long term traders.
Survival intelligence is more important than entry intelligence
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