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  • #4,661
  • Jan 3, 2023 11:58am Jan 3, 2023 11:58am
Quoting OAPDave
{quote} MurreyMaths Yes Just showing there are many interesting ways to trade
Gann theory, did read about that a long time ago. Quite a bit of negative press about the man himself.

If it works for you that is great.

I try not to predict, but I do watch levels, especially if they coincide with MS.
It never gets easier, you just get better
  • #4,662
  • Jan 3, 2023 12:23pm Jan 3, 2023 12:23pm
Two Losers on Cable which puzzle me
The first "X" maybe was just unlucky?
The second "X" crashed into a previous High I should have noted and avoided?
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
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every Saint has a past. Every Sinner has a Future
  • #4,663
  • Jan 3, 2023 12:47pm Jan 3, 2023 12:47pm
Quoting turnip15
Two Losers on Cable which puzzle me The first "X" maybe was just unlucky? The second "X" crashed into a previous High I should have noted and avoided? {image}
My view where Buyers & Sellers sit, I dont have 3m charts, so used yours :

Attached Image (click to enlarge)
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It never gets easier, you just get better
  • #4,664
  • Jan 3, 2023 1:27pm Jan 3, 2023 1:27pm
Quoting Shabs19
{quote} My view where Buyers & Sellers sit, I dont have 3m charts, so used yours : {image}
Is that 5 minute rejection?
or MS rejection?
If "MS" then what is MS ?
every Saint has a past. Every Sinner has a Future
  • #4,665
  • Jan 3, 2023 1:39pm Jan 3, 2023 1:39pm
Quoting turnip15
{quote} Is that 5 minute rejection? or MS rejection? If "MS" then what is MS ?
Market structure ???
Mark ... Everything you have been told is a LIE
  • #4,666
  • Jan 3, 2023 1:40pm Jan 3, 2023 1:40pm
Quoting turnip15
{quote} Is that 5 minute rejection? or MS rejection? If "MS" then what is MS ?
Apologise my abbreviation for Market Structure, not timeframe.

Structure is on all timefarmes as Maket is fractal. Sometimes you need to zoom out, other times you need to zoom in.

Markets job is to fill orders, if there are no orders nearby, it will move to the next level.

The whales have to be in the market all the time, we have the advantage over them that we can sit & wait until the opportunity comes to us.
It never gets easier, you just get better
  • #4,667
  • Jan 3, 2023 1:43pm Jan 3, 2023 1:43pm
Quoting Shabs19
{quote} Apologise my abbreviation for Market Structure, not timeframe.
AHA -got it now. No probs Shabs and thanks for your helpful comments.
I can see now that I concentrate on static price levels left of the open but ignore developing structures as they form
every Saint has a past. Every Sinner has a Future
  • #4,668
  • Jan 3, 2023 1:57pm Jan 3, 2023 1:57pm
Quoting turnip15
{quote} AHA -got it now. No probs Shabs and thanks for your helpful comments. I can see now that I concentrate on static price levels left of the open but ignore developing structures as they form
The newer structures are where retail traders most likely to have left their stops.

Retail very often provide liquidity that the pros are looking for.

Market structure is visible proof of pro activity.
It never gets easier, you just get better
  • #4,669
  • Jan 3, 2023 4:26pm Jan 3, 2023 4:26pm
A bit of Trader Tom stuff - Page 28 "MEBOB" rules
using 10:05 to 10:10am 5 minute bar New York time on SP500


https://tradertom.com/wp-content/upl...ute.docx-1.pdf
every Saint has a past. Every Sinner has a Future
  • #4,670
  • Jan 4, 2023 2:26am Jan 4, 2023 2:26am
Quoting Shabs19
{quote} Gann theory, did read about that a long time ago. Quite a bit of negative press about the man himself. If it works for you that is great. I try not to predict, but I do watch levels, especially if they coincide with MS.
Fibonacci and GANN are identical in basics.
how come it's math with Fibonacci but with GANN it's personal ?
never trust IGNORANCE.

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cheers,
"the public is not yet ready for it" W.D. GANN
  • #4,671
  • Jan 4, 2023 3:10am Jan 4, 2023 3:10am
Good old Dax away again
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every Saint has a past. Every Sinner has a Future
  • #4,672
  • Jan 4, 2023 3:50am Jan 4, 2023 3:50am
Quoting fxpider
{quote} My risk management was ok. I took only 0.1% risk. The issue was with the trade management and the timing of the trade. This was the result of my desperation of having a winning trade on the 1st day of the year. WHAT A STUPID OBJECTIVE, I was obsessed with.
0.1%.
  • #4,673
  • Jan 4, 2023 3:59am Jan 4, 2023 3:59am
Quoting Kwt4x
{quote} Fibonacci and GANN are identical in basics. how come it's math with Fibonacci but with GANN it's personal ? never trust IGNORANCE. {image} cheers,
Gann, Murrey Math Lines, Harmonics etc. are all based around Fibonaccci maths. Correct.

For the record, I do not use fibonacci in the conventional way, more as a tool for trade management.

I only mentioned Gann, because he made his living primarily from selling Books & courses, he was never a succesful trader.

I have absolutely, No problems with anyone who can make a living trading with any of that.

It's the subjectivity that is the problem, where do you draw these levels from, what parameters work on which currency pairs,
what timeframe is more accurate ? No two traders will be able to trade the exact same way.

Where there is confusion, there are mistakes and in this business mistakes cost a lot of money and emotional stress.

Our job as traders is first & foremost to avoid errors and preserve Capital.

Using Current / Previous, Daily, Weekly, Monthly, Opens, Closes, Highs & Lows are the same for everyone, give or take a pip or so.

This is about as basic as you can get.

Ultimately Price is King and all indicators are derived from Price, however you dress it.
It never gets easier, you just get better
  • #4,674
  • Jan 4, 2023 5:23am Jan 4, 2023 5:23am
Quoting turnip15
Good old Dax away again {image}
Volume entering the market & a pullback is a good sign.
It never gets easier, you just get better
  • #4,675
  • Jan 4, 2023 5:45am Jan 4, 2023 5:45am
Quoting OAPDave
{quote} Excellent and fairly explained reply If logic was the answer we would have found The Holy Grail by now My attraction to trying to understand Murrey is rather simple It answers all my needs to trade Lets me trade any Timeframe Lets me use a Set and Forget Method In any form Helps spot Price Patterns Can see all of the same things you look for and perhaps a little more It as a sound Money-Management and easy to see Risk Reward potential trades ps Just look at it as a Simple Grid Chart but alas far from being the Holy Grail enjoy the challenge...
I see you cover up your parameter settings for your MM Lines.

You see this is my problem, it is too dependent on your settings and timeframe, you will need to change to adjust the lines for timeframes & currency pair.
All currency pairs do not behave the same way.

The grid is around 30.5 pips now, go to another timeframe the grid will be larger or smaller to suit the scale. Maybe 15 pips or even 65 pips between the lines.

Why would someone trading hundreds of Lots, pay any attention to lines drawn equidistantly apart ?

It is a similar thing with Pivot Points, in the old days with trading floors/ pits, you would need to carry this information with you to make decisions.
But with the advent of technology, some trading techniques will become obselete. The amount of information available now goes into warp drive.

What has not & will not change, even with the Algos present, is Human Emotions of Fear & Greed.

This is what you look for on a chart and do your best to control yours.

It's You vs You.
It never gets easier, you just get better
  • #4,676
  • Jan 4, 2023 6:38am Jan 4, 2023 6:38am
Quoting Shabs19
{quote} Apologise my abbreviation for Market Structure, not timeframe. Structure is on all timefarmes as Maket is fractal. Sometimes you need to zoom out, other times you need to zoom in. Markets job is to fill orders, if there are no orders nearby, it will move to the next level. The whales have to be in the market all the time, we have the advantage over them that we can sit & wait until the opportunity comes to us.
Levels again. I have left out BRN's, and 50 etc for clarity. Confluence helps sometimes
And if I had down lies forward as price moved up and down I could see where your Market Structure helps, as price moved live, in addition to my fixed levels pre-open like previous highs etc.
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: GBPUSD_2023-01-04_12-34-38_3b154.png Size: 144 KB
every Saint has a past. Every Sinner has a Future
  • #4,677
  • Jan 4, 2023 6:50am Jan 4, 2023 6:50am
Quoting Shabs19
{quote} Gann, Murrey Math Lines, Harmonics etc. are all based around Fibonaccci maths. Correct. For the record, I do not use fibonacci in the conventional way, more as a tool for trade management. I only mentioned Gann, because he made his living primarily from selling Books & courses, he was never a succesful trader. I have absolutely, No problems with anyone who can make a living trading with any of that. It's the subjectivity that is the problem, where do you draw these levels from, what parameters work on which currency pairs, what timeframe...
my point was, you can not ignore the math and attack the person, it would be poor act of judgement.
unfortunately, you too sided with the negative press and bypassed the math. even when the other side said he is successful.

I don't blame you, "wannabe GANN's" invented ways that GANN never mentioned, and used his name to scam others, and that's not the fault of GANN.

there is no subjectivity in measuring, both Fibonacci and GANN have basic rules for measurement, if they applied correctly, all traders should see and trade the same levels.

I agree with you that price is king, but math organize price and show you "levels to watch" as you said.

cheers,
"the public is not yet ready for it" W.D. GANN
  • #4,678
  • Jan 4, 2023 9:01am Jan 4, 2023 9:01am
Quoting Kwt4x
{quote} my point was, you can not ignore the math and attack the person, it would be poor act of judgement. unfortunately, you too sided with the negative press and bypassed the math. even when the other side said he is successful. I don't blame you, "wannabe GANN's" invented ways that GANN never mentioned, and used his name to scam others, and that's not the fault of GANN. there is no subjectivity in measuring, both Fibonacci and GANN have basic rules for measurement, if they applied correctly, all traders should see and trade the same levels....
I have not attacked anyone, if it came across like that, I apologise, I am simply quoting what has been said about Gann by none other tha Alexander Elder in his book "Trading for a Living". He has some very sound advice on trading psychology & trading techniques.

KEY TAKEAWAYS: (from investopaedia regarding W D Gann)

  1. W.D. Gann created trading strategies using geometry, astrology, and ancient mathematics.
  2. His techniques, known as Gann indicators, are used in predicting the top, bottom, and future price moves of commodities.
  3. Gann developed and sold trading courses including The W. D. Gann Master Commodity Course: Original Commodity Market Trading Course.


I have No problems with anyone wishing to make money out of their specialised knowledge of playing the markets. There are thousands doing it.
What worries me is trying to wrap all this info into ancient secrets & astrology, worked well in selling courses & books in his day.
It still does today, you only have to type Forex trading into a search engine.

I agree scammers will exploit the gullibilty of the average trader who wants to know the "secret" right now without the effort.

My humble opinion is the markets are all based on math, when we are so reliant on numbers to give us information.

Sometimes we make life all too difficult for ourselves when simple observation can yield better results. (Can't see the wood for the trees).

It never gets easier, you just get better
  • #4,679
  • Jan 4, 2023 9:13am Jan 4, 2023 9:13am
Quoting OAPDave
Think you can see the reason why the Grid is Dynamic It uses different Time Spans & Ranges to cover Volatility {image} {image} {image}
Just an observation, the blank chart of GBPUSD 1m, that you posted this morning with the colour levels is now showing different levels on the same GU 1m chart you posted now.

Are the lines re-calculating as new prices come in ?

If so, then is the indicator repainting lines to "curve-fit" the chart we end up with ?

So how does it predict the levels at the start of the day into the future, before the market has opened ?
It never gets easier, you just get better
  • #4,680
  • Jan 4, 2023 9:25am Jan 4, 2023 9:25am
Quoting Shabs19
{quote} Volume entering the market & a pullback is a good sign.
Them lines Shabs

Not traded the sp500 cos I was on the line to BT ( UK phone provider) renewing my Broadband package etc. Got a 900 full Fibre package. Then looked at chart of sp500. Hindsight but maybe one trade crossing up thro USA open line. Possibly failed short and long in channels and a good short from channel.Long on level not taken and now a short triggered?
News about today as well?
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
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every Saint has a past. Every Sinner has a Future
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