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  • #11,021
  • Sep 27, 2022 3:38am Sep 27, 2022 3:38am
Quoting TradersWithE
Hi All, Traders With Edge launched customizable prop challenges, so you can change most objectives on the challenge. Be good to hear you feedback on the idea and the individual customizations available?
You will not attract a meaningful customer base because your prices are way too high. You ask basically for a 200% target with 10% to 5%DD. If you were 85% to 90% cheaper than actually you would be kind of competitive. Or you lower your target to 5% to be equal with the allowed max DD of 5%, then you can lower your fee to 50% of actual pricing. Prospective clients or traders are not that stupid, especially in the crowd (you might heard of swarm intelligence), they can compare your offer.
  • #11,022
  • Sep 27, 2022 3:47am Sep 27, 2022 3:47am
FYI https://tradethatswing.com/the-day-t...nd-statistics/
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  • #11,023
  • Sep 27, 2022 6:56am Sep 27, 2022 6:56am
Quoting Expo33
{quote} Yea I was never impressed with Kathy Lien Eightcap, 10% TP with 5% allowable drawdown, terrible pricing. Not impressed.

Trailing drawdown limits are amazing bro.. Surgetrader is the best! /s
  • #11,024
  • Sep 27, 2022 10:38am Sep 27, 2022 10:38am
Quoting muir
{quote} What's customizable here, these are bog standard models. Why would anyone use your unknown/unproven firm instead of the established ones like FTMO or MFF?
maybe the disruption of a newer better firm would bring the incumbent market leaders to a better product, isn't that the beauty of competition within the market
  • #11,025
  • Sep 27, 2022 12:05pm Sep 27, 2022 12:05pm
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  • #11,026
  • Sep 27, 2022 12:13pm Sep 27, 2022 12:13pm
Quoting NevFX
{quote} maybe the disruption of a newer better firm would bring the incumbent market leaders to a better product, isn't that the beauty of competition within the market

Good luck making something financially viable better than whats there. I tried, but it doesnt work without being a mega charity.
  • #11,027
  • Sep 27, 2022 12:22pm Sep 27, 2022 12:22pm
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  • #11,028
  • Sep 27, 2022 1:13pm Sep 27, 2022 1:13pm
Quoting TradersWithE
Hi All, Traders With Edge launched customizable prop challenges, so you can change most objectives on the challenge. Be good to hear you feedback on the idea and the individual customizations available?
-I like the idea of being able to customize the offerings. I also really like the options that you are providing for that (although, I suspect that some of the options may not be viable over the long-term for you -- I hope that you can manage). I have a few questions:

1. Can you please clarify whether or not the customizable options apply to the challenges-only, the funded account-only or do these options apply to both?

2. If the 'remove stop-loss' option is selected, is the maximum risk rule also removed?
----2a. If the maximum risk rule is not removed, how will the maximum position size be calculated?
----2b. If the maximum position size is based on percent of account balance or draw-down etc., then would this render the 'double leverage' option useless?

3. When will larger account sizes be available for the Hare model?

FYI - your FAQ states that MT4 will be used, however, your offerings indicate that MT5 may be selected.

As far as negative feedback goes, I really feel concerned regarding the 30-second rule that you have stated under tick scalping. As a manual trader/scalper, there are times when positions are closed in under 30 seconds. It does not happen often, but it does happen. Since I scale into my positions, this would mean that there could be several positions that open and then close under that 30-second threshold. I would be concerned that this would give you justifiable reasoning for account closure even though my trading is legitimate. Can you offer any statement regarding this?

Thanks.
  • #11,029
  • Sep 27, 2022 3:36pm Sep 27, 2022 3:36pm
Quoting NevFX
{quote} maybe the disruption of a newer better firm would bring the incumbent market leaders to a better product, isn't that the beauty of competition within the market
Generally, I welcome more competition for my business but newer isn't automatically better. This is prime example for that. They offer worse conditions at a higher price than the established firms. They won't disrupt anything.
  • #11,030
  • Sep 27, 2022 4:57pm Sep 27, 2022 4:57pm
Quoting NevFX
{quote} maybe the disruption of a newer better firm would bring the incumbent market leaders to a better product, isn't that the beauty of competition within the market
In order for someone to disrupt ANY product/service space, not just the prop firm space, they need to come out with either a) a better product or b) a better price. This one does neither. One must also keep in mind, regarding prop firms, the business model must make sense for EVERYONE involved. If something looks fantastic to us as traders but does not make sense for long term profit and growth for the company, BOTH will suffer. Considering the "challenge" of the challenges, once passed and funded, as a trader, you want that firm to prosper long term for the obvious reason of you to continue to earn money from them.
  • #11,031
  • Sep 27, 2022 6:37pm Sep 27, 2022 6:37pm
Quoting Takisd
{quote} Good luck making something financially viable better than whats there. I tried, but it doesnt work without being a mega charity.
I accept your challenge, and I will make something better for all.
  • #11,032
  • Sep 27, 2022 7:02pm Sep 27, 2022 7:02pm
Quoting pipmaster77
{quote} In order for someone to disrupt ANY product/service space, not just the prop firm space, they need to come out with either a) a better product or b) a better price. This one does neither. One must also keep in mind, regarding prop firms, the business model must make sense for EVERYONE involved. If something looks fantastic to us as traders but does not make sense for long term profit and growth for the company, BOTH will suffer. Considering the "challenge" of the challenges, once passed and funded, as a trader, you want that firm to prosper...
I think we can all agree that fundamentally prop firms per se do not owe retail traders anything. Prop firms put their capital at risk.
Retail traders are usually inexperienced and will lose money. That said I believe, all prop firms, brokers, banks, and everything in between should give everyone trading the markets a fair shot. So if the prop firm is willing to take someone's money who clearly can not trade, there should be some net benefit for the wannabe trader. Otherwise, the firms are just taking money from degenerates and the vulnerable. Years ago I thought Amplify Trading would be a legit firm to trade with, but it wasn't what I was looking for and that unfortunately only became apparent after handing over cash. There are many other examples, where after the firm has taught a basic strategy, there is no time invested in the new trader.

It's difficult to get beyond traders who think they can make a million from £50 or don't want to walk before they run. There is another cohort of traders (myself included) who have been burned several times and are fed up with false promises or their own indiscipline which has led to market cynicism.

There should be a barrier to entry for those that can not trade. There should be a barrier high enough to weed out those that will not treat this seriously. But beyond that barrier, there should be a team to elevate any weaknesses and turn them into strengths, so everyone does well. Listening to One Good Trade from SMB highlights the culture and mindset needed to succeed. I see none of that in the current retail prop space. Anyone trading my money would need to show consistency but also would have to treat it as if it were their own life savings. ie. with respect. In return, I would want to check in on those traders and make sure they felt supported.

So maybe the next bunch of firms to try and make inroads into the retail space don't do any better than what FTMO for instance does in terms of price and payout structure. Maybe the new firms will add value elsewhere. IDK, but I am going to signup to see which firms get it right for me as per my thread here in FF and I will monitor what others say of firms to see if I can gauge what is actually good or not.

I personally would welcome an actual trading room that backs those willing to prove discipline and innovation. And I haven't found it yet.
  • #11,033
  • Sep 27, 2022 9:15pm Sep 27, 2022 9:15pm
Quoting muir
This is prime example for that. They offer worse conditions at a higher price than the established firms. They won't disrupt anything.
-I suppose that this may be subjective. They do offer something different. Maybe it is not better for long-term survivability, but it is something that some traders may be looking for, even as a short-term solution.

Quoting pipmaster77
the business model must make sense for EVERYONE involved. If something looks fantastic to us as traders but does not make sense for long term profit and growth for the company, BOTH will suffer.
-Very true. Those that see trading as a serious business will always be looking at things in this way. However, I do see some benefit in having other options for higher-risk plays when you get bored or just want to have fun, even if those options may be short-lived. The odds may be better than going to a casino, anyway.

Quoting NevFX
There should be a barrier to entry for those that can not trade. There should be a barrier high enough to weed out those that will not treat this seriously. But beyond that barrier, there should be a team to elevate any weaknesses and turn them into strengths, so everyone does well.
-What you are talking about is how many traditional props operate. The props that we discuss here are remote firms that operate differently. Although there is a barrier-to-entry with these remote firms, we know that the requirements are irresponsible and ridiculous, but we accept the trade-off of not having to wait ages to start earning, while also doing so without any licensing requirements and other hurdles.

Quoting NevFX
Anyone trading my money would need to show consistency but also would have to treat it as if it were their own life savings. ie. with respect.
-It makes sense. But you will be competing with firms that offer more freedom, that do not require consistency or total respect. It will be hard to compete, so your target market will likely be traders that do not care much for remote props, which excludes most of the readers here, probably.

I have seen some remote firms that support their traders in the form of guidance and learning material etc.. One, in particular, that is still offering funding, does not have competitive offerings, so they are rarely spoken about here.
  • #11,034
  • Sep 27, 2022 9:23pm Sep 27, 2022 9:23pm
Quoting NevFX
Anyone trading my money would need to show consistency but also would have to treat it as if it were their own life savings. ie. with respect.
-Something else that I want to say regarding this comment. I think that the funding amount matters a lot. A $200K account is much different than a $2M account. Seasoned traders will adjust accordingly, so that they can earn a comfortable living, while also not stressing the account too much. That is much easier to do when you have more capital to work with. Respecting the capital becomes very easy with a higher balance. Finding smart traders and weeding out newbies may be a challenge, though.

This is why you will see many traders here securing multiple accounts across multiple firms, not only for risk mitigation and diversity, but also for increased capital allocation. It simply makes the most sense. We can trade multiple accounts using very small positions and still make a good living.
  • #11,035
  • Sep 27, 2022 9:30pm Sep 27, 2022 9:30pm
Quoting Nsak3y
{quote}-Something else that I want to say regarding this comment. I think that the funding amount matters a lot. A $200K account is much different than a $2M account. Seasoned traders will adjust accordingly, so that they can earn a comfortable living, while also not stressing the account too much. That is much easier to do when you have more capital to work with. Respecting the capital becomes very easy with a higher balance. Finding smart traders and weeding out newbies may be a challenge, though. This is why you will see many traders here securing...
Exactly. I've been explaining it this way forever. The higher capital isn't necessarily to earn more (after a certain point). It is to continue earning the same while reducing the risk immensely.
  • #11,036
  • Sep 28, 2022 7:54am Sep 28, 2022 7:54am
I did an FF search for Alphachain Traders, but come up with nada.
Has anyone tried this firm?

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  • #11,037
  • Sep 28, 2022 8:38am Sep 28, 2022 8:38am
Quoting NevFX
I did an FF search for Alphachain Traders, but come up with nada. Has anyone tried this firm? {image}
Why bother ? The prop firms offer of this challenge has a score below 1, so own compounding on your own personal account is more favorable. This is kind of fraud only.
  • #11,038
  • Sep 28, 2022 9:04am Sep 28, 2022 9:04am
Got accepted into the VIP for MFF..... will see how it works when markets are a bit calmer and I am ready to trade. Been busy lately so havent really been trading other than blueforexfunds live account which so far has switched server 3 times since I got it.
  • #11,039
  • Sep 28, 2022 9:13am Sep 28, 2022 9:13am
Quoting Takisd
Got accepted into the VIP for MFF..... will see how it works when markets are a bit calmer and I am ready to trade. Been busy lately so havent really been trading other than blueforexfunds live account which so far has switched server 3 times since I got it.
So BFF is not a scam ? And spreads are also very good I read ? Anything other special with your funded account ? How long did it take to get the credentials here ?
  • #11,040
  • Sep 28, 2022 9:23am Sep 28, 2022 9:23am
Quoting TrAndy1
{quote} So BFF is not a scam ? And spreads are also very good I read ? Anything other special with your funded account ? How long did it take to get the credentials here ?

The spreads are worse than the top5 prop firms. The account is unstable in general, feeds freezing so they changed provider but the account information was transferred, its very dodgy. Is it a scam? Lets see, I am up like 20% with no rules broken. I did have a 2% dd, but they said it was 3.8% so i suspect at some point even not breaking the rules I will be told i broke the rules. Lots of dodgy, its run by scammers so .... it could morph like TFF did but right now im less than impressed. My US30 spread right now is wider than mff, ftmo tftp and tff on them, just for clarity.

For clarity:

My account went from blueberrymarkets (real broker eightcap) to alfarobo (what the fuck?) to Al Awal (who the fuck?) To CFMerchant (who the fuck?).

The conditions went from normal conditions to like 5$ spread on us30 during asia to 3 during asia to 3.5 during asia, all have stop levels at 20 so force sl distance and there are countless freezes in ticks and jumps. I could arb the living crap out of this feed but I don't cos I am bored to have that argument with them.
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