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  • #10,281
  • Aug 16, 2022 1:00pm Aug 16, 2022 1:00pm
Quoting TrAndy1
{quote} Are you not happy with EURO currency at all. I mean you reside in Greece being Greek, so there is the Euro. If you take Euro payments then it is all free and way faster.
Because my trading account is dollars and has been ever since I lived in Asia. At the time of formation the USD to EUR exchange rate was awful, now its pretty good but I have a system. I also have a very simple life where I do not spend much in general and most of my money goes into index funds and ETF's (Degiro and trading212 sorry I forgot IBKR as well)

Now would you like a DNA sample as well? Want my family history ? Medical history?
  • #10,282
  • Aug 16, 2022 1:14pm Aug 16, 2022 1:14pm
We have many phrases here...

Nonya!
Nonyer biz!
Don't worry about it!
Mind your own!
None of your beezwax!
Get off of it!
You writing a book?
etc..
  • #10,283
  • Aug 16, 2022 1:16pm Aug 16, 2022 1:16pm
Quoting TrAndy1
{quote} I think my shown code is only 8% discount in reality, as you have already tried and used it for E8 challenge(s). But not needing verification is an argument itself.
they increased to 10%
  • #10,284
  • Aug 16, 2022 1:26pm Aug 16, 2022 1:26pm
Quoting Takisd
{quote} Because my trading account is dollars and has been ever since I lived in Asia. At the time of formation the USD to EUR exchange rate was awful, now its pretty good but I have a system.
Sorry for asking too much. I just wanted to know if I miss something valuable here. Only wanted to understand those facts you are writing. But in case you decided to change your trading account to EUR then you could save a lot of time and some fees too. You only needed to convert once your USD assets to EUR for cheap. That's it.
  • #10,285
  • Aug 16, 2022 1:41pm Aug 16, 2022 1:41pm
You said also that you are doing business with prop firms offering consulting to them. And actually have two prop firms in your client base. So that also made you somehow interesting to ask little bit more than usually. I also understand that you could have a slightly bias (at least) that you are only pro for FTMO and MFF, the biggest two in the ranking list. Every other prop firm makes you negative when you write something, just to summarize it a little bit here. Can be understood of course.
Because there is distance from the business volume of these two prop firms to the others. In any case you are doing consulting, you do not want to make them angry of course. And in any case you would be too positive in any feedback or opinion for the other smaller prop firms, then you would be biased too, because of the consulting.
And because you highlighted one or very few of the smaller props then the other competitors could ask questions, why are not good enough (for him). So that would harm your business consulting for prop firms at all. (You already said you made kind of setup for TPT (?), if I am correct. Then said you thought they would disappear.)
  • #10,286
  • Aug 16, 2022 2:05pm Aug 16, 2022 2:05pm
Just to make the point here on further discussions on prop firms here in this thread, Takisd. I understand your bias. But I am and most others if not all are totally unbiased and I also try to be as objective as I can. Everybody has noticed that with my scores and the ranking list(s). So in any case you are negative on any other prop firm than FTMO and MFF, then just take is as a small advice, you should not foulplay them being subjective too much. Try to mention the facts what speaks against them, then we (the others unbiased) can put those fragments together with the other positive aspects a prop firm might have and so we could form a better picture.
  • #10,287
  • Aug 16, 2022 2:14pm Aug 16, 2022 2:14pm
Quoting TrAndy1
You said also that you are doing business with prop firms offering consulting to them. And actually have two prop firms in your client base. So that also made you somehow interesting to ask little bit more than usually. I also understand that you could have a slightly bias (at least) that you are only pro for FTMO and MFF, the biggest two in the ranking list. Every other prop firm makes you negative when you write something, just to summarize it a little bit here. Can be understood of course. Because there is distance from the business volume of...

I have FTMO, MFF and TFTP live. I think i was the first one here to have the TFTP live account. It was ok for a bit with their old scammy broker but since eightcap its been shit. Then at stupid video in florida was enough for me not to care much about it anymore. I trade there sporadically in no significant quantity.
I have two TFF challenges at the moment, one I bought earlier today. Until their fix their infrastructure they will be worse than MFF and FTMO but they are growing on me a bit. Fundednext is a scam, the 15% bonus thing is enough for that. TPT screwed a lot of people both from the surprise lot size restriction then the hacks and denials. There is no redemption in my eyes. E8 I plan to do after the summer as I think the market will be forgiving to high risk prop trading then.

If a firm has a shit website and poor marketing I am not going to trust them. Thats me.

My personal business, is none of your business, it doesn't involve retail traders(as in I do not solicit them) and thats all you need to know about it.
  • #10,288
  • Aug 16, 2022 2:17pm Aug 16, 2022 2:17pm
Quoting TrAndy1
Just to make the point here on further discussions on prop firms here in this thread, Takisd. I understand your bias. But I am and most others if not all are totally unbiased and I also try to be as objective as I can. Everybody has noticed that with my scores and the ranking list(s). So in any case you are negative on any other prop firm than FTMO and MFF, then just take is as a small advice, you should not foulplay them being subjective too much. Try to mention the facts what speaks against them, then we (the others unbiased) can put those fragments...

Your scores only rate value. They do not include things like website content, website creation (for example, if someone uses WIX they should get a score of 0). They are helpful but they do not truly highlight a firm as you can tell whether or not there are sharks in the water by the set up of the company. Every time I see replicas of MFF or FTMO I will call it out, the last few posted here were new firms with copy paste of text from either of those sites. There is a point where we as a community have to say enough is enough, of the 8 firms that are "trusted" it should be very difficult to penetrate that group because the more we are "open to others" the more likely a regulator is going to come in and spill the milk.
  • #10,289
  • Aug 16, 2022 2:27pm Aug 16, 2022 2:27pm
Quoting Takisd
{quote} Your scores only rate value. They do not include things like website content, website creation (for example, if someone uses WIX they should get a score of 0). They are helpful but they do not truly highlight a firm as you can tell whether or not there are sharks in the water by the set up of the company. Every time I see replicas of MFF or FTMO I will call it out, the last few posted here were new firms with copy paste of text from either of those sites. There is a point where we as a community have to say enough is enough, of the 8 firms...
100% agree. I am unbiased and FTMO and MFF simply shine above the rest. There are many here in complete agreement with that as well. There is definitely a Tier 2 consisting of 3-4 firms that pay, have decent conditions are definitely tradeable. If there are 6-8 firms that pay and have good conditions and you can get 400-600K with each before scaling......what more do you need?
Great point....the larger it becomes, the more likely the bullshit regulation starts and then THERE ARE NO FIRMS.
I love the value scores, I believe it is the first thing to look at, after all, if you are not getting significant better return than your own account.....why bother. However, you must then filter the good scores with trading conditions, payout history, crazy rules, etc......
It will continue to yield the same results....MFF and FTMO in a class by themselves and 3-4 Tier 2 brokers. Personally, if they can all survive, I don't want any more to pop up. Anything better than the current offerings is not a sustainable business model anyway....we've already kind of determined that earlier in this forum.
  • #10,290
  • Aug 16, 2022 2:36pm Aug 16, 2022 2:36pm
That is the thing with your standards. Only FTMO and MFF are not enough for a long term healthy market with competition in there. If only two props make the market everyone should be careful. But there are coming up several questions for the resaons as they do not seem so objective. You said for TFTP for example 'Then at stupid video in florida was enough for me not to care much about it anymore.' What kind of stupid video, why only one and that video is totally enough ? TFF needs to fix their infrastructure you said. What is the problem here ? I do not notice any negatives here. That kind of no slip was an exception I noticed. And why is Fundednext a scam for only offering a 15% bonus when the overall score, I say, is such low. I mean they must have some room for such offers with that kind of bonus. It seems you know it better here. Then you need to tell more and the reason why. TPT lot size restriction was known, not a hidden rule nobody could read beforehand before to join. So where is the point here ? They already improved it with the growing competition and now no lots size restriction and no minimum trading days anymore. On E8 you said elsewhere the management are only psychos who need some help. That were you words. I just do not get it with such simple and no deeper arguments for the reasons.
  • #10,291
  • Aug 16, 2022 2:50pm Aug 16, 2022 2:50pm
Quoting pipmaster77
Anything better than the current offerings is not a sustainable business model anyway....we've already kind of determined that earlier in this forum.
-Really? I'm not totally sure. But, I am not in any position to say one way or the other. My suspicion is that there is still room for improvement, but unless we know the actual numbers for everything, then it may be difficult to discern for some things.

Quoting Takisd
Your scores only rate value. They do not include things like website content, website creation (for example, if someone uses WIX they should get a score of 0). They are helpful but they do not truly highlight a firm as you can tell whether or not there are sharks in the water by the set up of the company.

Quoting pipmaster77
However, you must then filter the good scores with trading conditions, payout history, crazy rules, etc.
-Right. The value scores are primary. But then you have secondary measures to consider. These secondary measures may be subjective, but many of them may still be very important.
  • #10,292
  • Aug 16, 2022 2:51pm Aug 16, 2022 2:51pm
Quoting TrAndy1
That is the thing with your standards. Only FTMO and MFF are not enough for a long term healthy market with competition in there. If only two props make the market everyone should be careful. But there are coming up several questions for the resaons as they do not seem so objective. You said for TFTP for example 'Then at stupid video in florida was enough for me not to care much about it anymore.' What kind of stupid video, why only one and that video is totally enough ? TFF needs to fix their infrastructure you said. What is the problem here ?...

TFTP did a video of them getting wasted and basically being daniel savage and thinking it was a good idea to represent their firm. Why would I support that? Why would I ? It certainly shows reckless spending and makes me suspect on longevity especially given that there is no way they are hedging properly.

TFF my accounts have been late so far. At least late compared to the top 2 its no big deal. They started off copy paste of MFF on their site and I judged them on that originally but have since purchased challenges.
15% bonus is a scam, funded next is a scam. The changed the rules for it for that specific reason it was built just as a marketing plot. Now that they realize its an unsustainable model they made rules that making it very hard for average users to get it and thus the 15% bonus isn't really a bonus anymore is it, its false advertising as there are lots of strings attached. You combine that with the fact their eightcap servers were down for 24 hours whilst no one elses eightcap servers were down etc etc. They aren't worth trying to work with let alone the money it costs. Top it off with an organic traffic review, they have 2 staff per organic visitor according to the supposedly claims they have. 300 staff, 150 organic users per day. Absolute nonsense.
e8 does have a psychopath in their team, I personally know them. I will still likely purchase a challenge, but they won't take over anyone else in the list for sure other than maybe TFTP. Their trading costs are also excessive but its upfront.
The5ers I dont like their programs, same as MFF Rapid, I think its a joke.
I hate that i had to sign a new MFF contract recently cos they updated their contracts.
I hate how FTMO's spreads stayed wide after CPI.

But both of those firms have history, they pay huge volumes of money to traders and their trading conditions are for the best part, real trading conditions. They rectify problems effectively when they are at fault. They are always moving forward and they surely don't spam me with emails and marketing. They behave as professionals, no glitz no glamour. They behave like prop firms. FTMO more than MFF tbh as MFF does do promos and community stuff that is a little on the less suit and tie side. Also there is always the pizza meme from when they crashed themselve and had to buy pizza for people due to incompetence.

Do you have any other firm you'd like me to review? I have answered your barrage of questions. Can we get back to talking about prop firms rather than you trying to knit pick me whilst complaining I am not so hot on TFF?

I do think our differences comes from time spent in the market. Where were you when funding talent died?
  • #10,293
  • Aug 16, 2022 2:53pm Aug 16, 2022 2:53pm
Just to make the point from the business view. 1 prop firm only makes the market is called a monopole, which is bad for customers/traders because they can do whatever they want. They are maximising producer rent, but we as a consument of props want to maximize consumer rent, which is only possible in a real competition. In a monopole there is no competition, so everyone understands that. 2 prop firms make the market in the second example. Then this is called a duopole which is also bad because they can easily talk to each other or look what the other is doing and can copy each other to make the competition as small as possible thus to maximise producer rent again (producer rent is the maximum gain for a firm which is in contrast to the consumer rent for the customer. The higher the producer rent the lower the consumer rent and vice versa. That is why healthy competition in every market is good for the consumer with a third invisible hand (the competitive market from Adams Smith). So I also doubt that 3 prop firms are enough because there is also first mover advantage means that every newcomer has it much more difficult to attract business because (FTMO here) is already there and absorbing the most gains. So every newcomer has a disadvantage because of the time delay, which makes it more difficult for newcomers being serious competitors. So at least 4 competitive prop firms are needed (not too much different in size in terms of doing overall business). It can only gets better with more prop firms from the competitive side. On the regulation side I cannot say much, about the minimum and maximum number of prop firms as competitors as I do not have much experience here. But me I would not fear that because there are so many countries that this cannot be a real game changer.
  • #10,294
  • Aug 16, 2022 3:59pm Aug 16, 2022 3:59pm
Regarding regulation, that may depend on where these firms decide to set up shop. If they can remain 'untouchable' in a sense, then better for us, but also riskier for us. It is a trade-off.

Similarly, when you consider off-shore brokers, having more choices is not usually a concern because they operate outside of the jurisdiction of most of the larger regulatory groups, and where reciprocity may not exist, or may not exist to any extent that it really matters much.

So, jurisdiction is key when considering regulation. That said, due to the fact that many brokers operate from safe-havens, they are usually forced to use cryptocurrency as a means to conduct business because the long arm of regulation can still reach payment processors/gateways and the like. So, if you operate within a country that prohibits or outlaws crypto, then you may have additional hurdles to jump through.

After all, we must be protected from ourselves and be told what to do with our own money because of the special people that cry wolf whenever their world doesn't turn out as perfectly as they imagined.

People that elect to trade with these prop firms should do so with an understanding of the associated risks. This is true for any business or investment.

However, the hypocrisy never ceases to amaze me, that we can walk into a casino and gamble away our life-savings when the odds are heavily against us, but we cannot intelligently invest in the market when the odds may be heavily in our favor. No, no... we must have rules and restrictions for that.

Imagine being told at the casino doors that you must have at least 10M to get in, or that you can only play one game of blackjack each day, or that you can only raise to 5% of your balance on each hand etc.. It sounds like a joke, but that is kind of the way that things are for traders, depending on where you are from.
  • #10,295
  • Aug 16, 2022 4:03pm Aug 16, 2022 4:03pm
Quoting Takisd
{quote} TFTP did a video of them getting wasted and basically being daniel savage and thinking it was a good idea to represent their firm. Why would I support that? Why would I ? It certainly shows reckless spending and makes me suspect on longevity especially given that there is no way they are hedging properly. TFF my accounts have been late so far. At least late compared to the top 2 its no big deal. They started off copy paste of MFF on their site and I judged them on that originally but have since purchased challenges. 15% bonus is a scam,...
I would be interested in your TPT review as you seemed not to go along with them. They had 2 bad things. One they eliminated (lot size, although it was public). The other one is the copy thing that it's too vague and opens the door to punish mistakes if we end up trading same instrument in different accounts.
  • #10,296
  • Aug 16, 2022 4:21pm Aug 16, 2022 4:21pm
Quoting Capablanca
{quote} I would be interested in your TPT review as you seemed not to go along with them. They had 2 bad things. One they eliminated (lot size, although it was public). The other one is the copy thing that it's too vague and opens the door to punish mistakes if we end up trading same instrument in different accounts.

They lost me at the lot size thing. Then when they were hacked not once, not twice, but three times and the way they handled that I lost all faith. The offering is attractive in numbers but I refuse to do business with people who shift blame for their own failures. I also do not like how their broker shadily popped up when they first started and was only in spanish from mexico. The owner of TPT being of that decent whilst denying affiliation. Its not for me at all.

The vague copy thing is a necessary rule but at least make it clearer. There are limitations on how many users these firms can handle effectively and if they are all trading the same its even less.
  • #10,297
  • Aug 16, 2022 4:24pm Aug 16, 2022 4:24pm
Quoting Nsak3y
Regarding regulation, that may depend on where these firms decide to set up shop. If they can remain 'untouchable' in a sense, then better for us, but also riskier for us. It is a trade-off. Similarly, when you consider off-shore brokers, having more choices is not usually a concern because they operate outside of the jurisdiction of most of the larger regulatory groups, and where reciprocity may not exist, or may not exist to any extent that it really matters much. So, jurisdiction is key when considering regulation. That said, due to the fact...
Financial products my friend,whether real or not, regulator will come in and wave their magic wand if enough people cry foul and I think in our industry, the first thing people try to do is "one up" the people they claim scammed them when in reality people need to look internally more than externally for their failures, especially in forex.
  • #10,298
  • Aug 16, 2022 4:30pm Aug 16, 2022 4:30pm
Quoting Takisd
{quote} They lost me at the lot size thing. Then when they were hacked not once, not twice, but three times and the way they handled that I lost all faith. The offering is attractive in numbers but I refuse to do business with people who shift blame for their own failures. I also do not like how their broker shadily popped up when they first started and was only in spanish from mexico. The owner of TPT being of that decent whilst denying affiliation. Its not for me at all. The vague copy thing is a necessary rule but at least make it clearer. There...
By hacking you mean having customer data compromised or hacked by people that take advantage of delays, freezes, latency, arb, etc. ?
The remaining points seem to have been eliminated (lot size, proper broker and English site/support ?).
For the owner I guess is the same ? What's wrong with that character ? I have not been with them since the beginning so I don't know their history behind.
Just curious because as some people realized here it's the one where I got a lot of payouts.
  • #10,299
  • Aug 16, 2022 4:32pm Aug 16, 2022 4:32pm
Quoting Capablanca
{quote} By hacking you mean having customer data compromised or hacked by people that take advantage of delays, freezes, latency, arb, etc. ? The remaining points seem to have been eliminated (lot size, proper broker and English site/support ?). For the owner I guess is the same ? What's wrong with that character ? I have not been with them since the beginning so I don't know their history behind. Just curious because as some people realized here it's the one where I got a lot of payouts.

all their client data, account numbers and passwords were hacked 3 times. I cant remember when exactly it was but it was a bit of a scandal. TFTP had it happen to them once as well as a few others.
  • #10,300
  • Aug 16, 2022 6:01pm Aug 16, 2022 6:01pm
Quoting Nsak3y
Regarding regulation, that may depend on where these firms decide to set up shop. If they can remain 'untouchable' in a sense, then better for us, but also riskier for us. It is a trade-off. Similarly, when you consider off-shore brokers, having more choices is not usually a concern because they operate outside of the jurisdiction of most of the larger regulatory groups, and where reciprocity may not exist, or may not exist to any extent that it really matters much. So, jurisdiction is key when considering regulation. That said, due to the fact...
Oh man, you struck a nerve here my friend. I was making about $75/hr multi-tabling 8 tables of online poker when they took that away. So now everyone in the world can play online poker except residents of the US, Iraq and North Korea (nice company to keep for the land of the free) When I got into forex, Dodd-Frank occurred within a year and well....we all know that story, talk about competition, I had 100 brokers to choose from, now there are 3 in the US unless you have 10m assets. It is all about the money and government control....they have their dirty, corrupt hands in Vegas, AC, etc, so I can indeed take my life savings and place it on one spin of the roulette wheel....nobody bats an eye. Same reason people spend their entire paycheck on lottery tickets, that's OK too, nobody cares.
I DO NOT RISK MONEY on anything I don't have an edge in, unless for fun of course........but yet they regulate the things you can actually develop a skill and have an edge in. The things you have absolutely no shot of being +EV.......have at it, gamble all you want. It's actual comical at this point.
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