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  • #9,941
  • Aug 9, 2022 9:14am Aug 9, 2022 9:14am
The account on the thread TE is at a prop firm? Which one is the FPF?
  • #9,942
  • Aug 9, 2022 9:27am Aug 9, 2022 9:27am
Quoting TrAndy1
{quote} Sorry, but I think you have not understood the Rapid model of MFF. Do not say you have not been warned. It is not a good model. Only do the challenges from them. And only do that when you are ready and have a solid tested proven strategy that works. Otherwise you will waste your money only. Be sure you can meet the goals.
Thanks for the feedback but could you please tell more why the Rapid is not a good model? When I compare the two, I don't see how Rapid is not a good place to start.

Rapid is 500:1, Evaluation is 100:1
Rapid is 100K, Evaluation is effectively 60K
Rapid doesn't have monthly target requirement, Evaluation has 8% for month 1, 4% for month 2.
Rapid earns the trader 12% on all profits starting on day 1, Evaluation doesn't earn the trader until they've been funded.
Rapid goes from demo to live after 10% account gain where profit sharing increases from 12%, Evaluation probably does something similar but I'm not sure.
  • #9,943
  • Aug 9, 2022 9:59am Aug 9, 2022 9:59am
Quoting madpips
{quote} Thanks for the feedback but could you please tell more why the Rapid is not a good model? When I compare the two, I don't see how Rapid is not a good place to start. Rapid is 500:1, Evaluation is 100:1 Rapid is 100K, Evaluation is effectively 60K Rapid doesn't have monthly target requirement, Evaluation has 8% for month 1, 4% for month 2. Rapid earns the trader 12% on all profits starting on day 1, Evaluation doesn't earn the trader until they've been funded. Rapid goes from demo to live after 10% account gain where profit sharing increases...
Not familiar with the rapid....but here is easy calculation, I have trades running and London about to close, so going to make it quick....let's say you pay $979 for a 200K eval, with 12% DD (24K). They ask for 8% (16K) and then 5%(10K)......so essentially 67% (16/24) and then 41% (10/24). Trade the $979 on your own and make 67% and 41%, you'll have $2,305, with MFF you will have 200K with 12% DD (24K) with 80% split.......so effectively $19,200.
Now plug those numbers into the rapid, see what you come up with. As I stated, have no idea and no interest, so would be curious to see the numbers actually.
Not quite sure why you are hung up on the 500:1, you'll probably blow the account in 20 minutes. I use 1or2:1 leverage, max 3:1.
  • #9,944
  • Aug 9, 2022 10:17am Aug 9, 2022 10:17am
Quoting pipmaster77
{quote} Not familiar with the rapid....but here is easy calculation, I have trades running and London about to close, so going to make it quick....let's say you pay $979 for a 200K eval, with 12% DD (24K). They ask for 8% (16K) and then 5%(10K)......so essentially 67% (16/24) and then 41% (10/24). Trade the $979 on your own and make 67% and 41%, you'll have $2,305, with MFF you will have 200K with 12% DD (24K) with 80% split.......so effectively $19,200. Now plug those numbers into the rapid, see what you come up with. As I stated, have no idea...
I'm not defending the Rapid model but how is it possible to say it's not a good model and also say you're not familiar with it. Let's only consider the 8% target requirement. With the Evaluation, the challenge fails if the trader doesn't meet the 8% target. With the Rapid, the challenge doesn't fail. In fact, the trader could earn just $1 per day on the Rapid and they would still have their account and continue to earn 12% of that $1. For someone starting out, it seems like the safest way to start out with prop firms.
  • #9,945
  • Aug 9, 2022 10:42am Aug 9, 2022 10:42am
Quoting madpips
{quote} Thanks for the feedback but could you please tell more why the Rapid is not a good model? When I compare the two, I don't see how Rapid is not a good place to start. Rapid is 500:1, Evaluation is 100:1 Rapid is 100K, Evaluation is effectively 60K Rapid doesn't have monthly target requirement, Evaluation has 8% for month 1, 4% for month 2. Rapid earns the trader 12% on all profits starting on day 1, Evaluation doesn't earn the trader until they've been funded. Rapid goes from demo to live after 10% account gain where profit sharing increases...
You really have not done your homework. You can ask MFF in their chat when you have questions too. You get instant funding 12%, so for $750 you pay you get $1200 in value. When you make 3 months in total profits of 10%, here you can max. earn 3.5% per month, so earliest is to get funded after 3 full months, then you get 10% of initial account size as funded. That means you get a 10k account on a 100k Rabid account, where the max. DD is 15% of that 10%, so you have basically $1500 to play with and that after 3 months. The score is so bad to the challenge models, that you should only care about challenge models. If you do not understand what the score is and how the ranking is, just go back earlier posts in this thread and you will be enlightened. It is definitely not worth your time to do that Rapid model. Listen.
Overall this Rabid model can be compared best with a kind of extended instant funding model, where the score is less than 2 overall. That is pretty bad in comparison.
  • #9,946
  • Aug 9, 2022 10:44am Aug 9, 2022 10:44am
Quoting madpips
{quote} I'm not defending the Rapid model but how is it possible to say it's not a good model and also say you're not familiar with it. Let's only consider the 8% target requirement. With the Evaluation, the challenge fails if the trader doesn't meet the 8% target. With the Rapid, the challenge doesn't fail. In fact, the trader could earn just $1 per day on the Rapid and they would still have their account and continue to earn 12% of that $1. For someone starting out, it seems like the safest way to start out with prop firms.
I'm not familiar because I looked once and discredited immediately.
  • #9,947
  • Aug 9, 2022 10:48am Aug 9, 2022 10:48am
Quoting pipmaster77
{quote} I'm not familiar because I looked once and discredited immediately.
If I survive the Rapid, I'll try to Evaluation next. About the 500:1, I definitely plan to use leverage since this would be the place to do it safely. If I'm over-leveraged, it wouldn't affect anyone, including myself.
  • #9,948
  • Aug 9, 2022 10:52am Aug 9, 2022 10:52am
Quoting TrAndy1
{quote} You really have not done your homework. You can ask MFF in their chat when you have questions too. You get instant funding 12%, so for $750 you pay you get $1200 in value. When you make 3 months in total profits of 10%, here you can max. earn 3.5% per month, so earliest is to get funded after 3 full months, then you get 10% of initial account size as funded. That means you get a 10k account on a 100k Rabid account, where the max. DD is 15% of that 10%, so you have basically $1500 to play with and that after 3 months. The score is so bad...
It's amazing, no matter how much you/we try to help, people refuse to listen. Newbies to this space have such an advantage......all of the homework and research has been done for them. You were kind enough to actually post a spreadsheet with scores for all of the firms.
  • #9,949
  • Aug 9, 2022 10:57am Aug 9, 2022 10:57am
Quoting pipmaster77
{quote} It's amazing, no matter how much you/we try to help, people refuse to listen. Newbies to this space have such an advantage......all of the homework and research has been done for them. You were kind enough to actually post a spreadsheet with scores for all of the firms.
I've been looking for this spreadsheet, could you post a link to it? Thanks in advance.
  • #9,950
  • Aug 9, 2022 11:07am Aug 9, 2022 11:07am
Quoting madpips
{quote} If I survive the Rapid, I'll try to Evaluation next. About the 500:1, I definitely plan to use leverage since this would be the place to do it safely. If I'm over-leveraged, it wouldn't affect anyone, including myself.
When you achieved funding status on their Rabid model, then you get 50% profit split for your 10% earned. You do not get here 5% in profits (at once). You can earn from your earned 10% on. So that is in total 5% of your profits ONLY, and before you got 12% of your profits as payout. After some months it can increase to about 80% or 85%, which is still lower than what you get before. You get $1200 value for $750 on 100k Rapid. Then it lowers to $750 in value first, before it then inceases I believe to $1000 (for 65% profit split on 10%). So you punish yourself after you have achieved funding status and that after 3 months. Did you understand that all ?
  • #9,951
  • Aug 9, 2022 11:18am Aug 9, 2022 11:18am
Quoting TrAndy1
{quote} When you achieved funding status on their Rabid model, then you get 50% profit split for your 10% earned. You do not get here 5% in profits (at once). You can earn from your earned 10% on. So that is in total 5% of your profits ONLY, and before you got 12% of your profits as payout. After some months it can increase to about 80% or 85%, which is still lower than what you get before. You get $1200 value for $750 on 100k Rapid. Then it lowers to $750 in value first, before it then inceases I believe to $1000 (for 65% profit split on 10%)....
The way I understand is that starting day 1 with the No Consistency Account (NCA), it starts on demo and I will get 12% of generated profits starting day 1. This would be payable after 4 weeks (with the NCA type). Once the account is raised by 10%, I am not sure what the profit split would be at that point. You're saying I will get 50% so okay, it's 50%. This is what I understood from what you said. I didn't understand how after some months, after it increases to 80-85%, it would be lower than before.
  • #9,952
  • Edited 11:39am Aug 9, 2022 11:26am | Edited 11:39am
Quoting madpips
{quote} I've been looking for this spreadsheet, could you post a link to it? Thanks in advance.

For evaluation model, the funded account value is 20 times your fee.
For rapid model, the funded account value is 1.6 times your fee(ultimately it will be 1.33 times of your fee.).
So you get far less value on rapid account.

When I first look at rapid model, I say:" Wow, this is basically trading my own money."
  • #9,953
  • Aug 9, 2022 11:39am Aug 9, 2022 11:39am
Quoting wmwmw
{quote} For evaluation model, the funded account value is 20 times your fee. For rapid model, the funded account value is 1.6 times your fee(ultimately it will be 1.33 of your fee.). So you get far less value on rapid account. When I first look at rapid model, I say:" Wow, this is basically trading my own money."
Are you taking into account the leverage of the two account sizes? To me, a 50K account with 100:1 leverage is the same as a 10K account with 500:1 leverage. Anyhow, I did use a coupon code which saved about 6% off the fee.
  • #9,954
  • Aug 9, 2022 11:43am Aug 9, 2022 11:43am
Quoting madpips
{quote} Are you taking into account the leverage of the two account sizes? To me, a 50K account with 100:1 leverage is the same as a 10K account with 500:1 leverage. Anyhow, I did use a coupon code which saved about 6% off the fee.
Your concept is totally wrong.
Leverage means nothing.
You think leverage increase your money, which is totally wrong.
There are some broker that offer 1:100 leverage, and some offer 1:3000 leverage. If you open an account at the later, doesn't your money increase 30 times?
Think it over.
If you trade 10K account on 1:500 leverage , your account has 5 times higher probability to blow up than you trade 50K account on 1:100 leverage.
  • #9,955
  • Aug 9, 2022 11:47am Aug 9, 2022 11:47am
Quoting madpips
{quote} Are you taking into account the leverage of the two account sizes? To me, a 50K account with 100:1 leverage is the same as a 10K account with 500:1 leverage. Anyhow, I did use a coupon code which saved about 6% off the fee.
Leverage does not factor into value. You have a max loss which you are paying x fee for. If you can only lose 10K, 500:1 ,100:1, 30:1 doesn't matter. Matter of fact, if you take a position with 500:1, how quickly do you think you will lose the allowed 5%...let's see on a 50K account, 500:1 will be a 25,000,000 position or $2500/pip, if the max daily loss is 5%, it is $2,500. So 1 pip move against you blows the account. Hmmmm, I wouldn't suggest that.
  • #9,956
  • Aug 9, 2022 11:48am Aug 9, 2022 11:48am
Quoting wmwmw
{quote} Your concept is totally wrong. Leverage means nothing. You think leverage increase your money, which is totally wrong. There are some broker that offer 1:100 leverage, and some offer 1:3000 leverage. If you open an account at later, doesn't your money increase 30 times? Think it over. If you trade 10K account on 1:500 leverage , your account has 5 times higher probability to blow up than you trade 50K account on 1:100 leverage.
It does "increase" because with higher leverage the account won't get locked up in used margin leaving little equity breathing room.
  • #9,957
  • Aug 9, 2022 11:53am Aug 9, 2022 11:53am
Quoting wmwmw
{quote} For evaluation model, the funded account value is 20 times your fee. For rapid model, the funded account value is 1.6 times your fee(ultimately it will be 1.33 times of your fee.). So you get far less value on rapid account. When I first look at rapid model, I say:" Wow, this is basically trading my own money."
Exactly. I completely understand one not wanting the pressure of the targets. However, the bottom line at that point is........a prop firm is of no value to you. All of the none challenge models have a value LOWER than trading your own personal account. There is nothing wrong with not liking challenge models, just put your time and effort into your own account....you will make way more money than direct funding, rapid, whatever.
  • #9,958
  • Aug 9, 2022 11:56am Aug 9, 2022 11:56am
Quoting madpips
{quote} It does "increase" because with higher leverage the account won't get locked up in used margin leaving little equity breathing room.
It may increase but far beyond the level you can reasonably use. With the average ATR on most typical instruments using even 1:50 makes you breach the DD limit in a blink of an eye. What limits your account "breathe" is the DD limit, not the leverage. Anything over say 1:10 is useless unless you plan to gamble
Money is made by sitting, not trading
  • #9,959
  • Aug 9, 2022 11:58am Aug 9, 2022 11:58am
Quoting pipmaster77
{quote} Leverage does not factor into value. You have a max loss which you are paying x fee for. If you can only lose 10K, 500:1 ,100:1, 30:1 doesn't matter. Matter of fact, if you take a position with 500:1, how quickly do you think you will lose the allowed 5%...let's see on a 50K account, 500:1 will be a 25,000,000 position or $2500/pip, if the max daily loss is 5%, it is $2,500. So 1 pip move against you blows the account. Hmmmm, I wouldn't suggest that.
It depends on the system. In my system the floating equity (drawdown or profit) gears are meshed with gears of money management. My system focuses on accuracy so that leverage could adequately be used and not left to go to waste.
  • #9,960
  • Aug 9, 2022 12:00pm Aug 9, 2022 12:00pm
Quoting madpips
{quote} It does "increase" because with higher leverage the account won't get locked up in used margin leaving little equity breathing room.
I can't even respond. Someone else please take this one.
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