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  • #9,841
  • Aug 7, 2022 12:28am Aug 7, 2022 12:28am
Quoting OutThere
I've seen your trading. Yes, you have to trade risk free. lol "People who trade extremely well", wasn't directed at you.
-You must have me confused for somebody else. But please elaborate, if you care to try.
  • #9,842
  • Aug 7, 2022 4:21am Aug 7, 2022 4:21am
Quoting doji
@ takisd, have you changed your mind about 8Cap? At the rate new props are choosing to partner with them, they're poised to take over and establish a monopoly! Or does it ultimately depend on the "integrity" of the people behind the prop at the end of the day? I recall that e8 initially used them as partner-broker (maybe they still do) and yet, people seem to find e8 satisfactory. What do you guys think? Would it be more advantageous to go with a prop that A) uses an outside broker (assuming it's reputable) or B) one that uses its own server for...

There are two platform providers who offer an OTB package that includes eightcap. Thats why there are so many eightcap people.

Eightcap is for lack of a better word, a shit bucketshop. The proof is that they are willing to pollute their demo servers with prop firm accounts just to charge the prop firm per user per month as its free money and more than they pay for server upkeep. I am fairly sure they are also recording the user information for brokerage/marketing purposes too. A few folks have already complained about unsolicited emails from eightcap prop firms.
  • #9,843
  • Aug 7, 2022 4:29am Aug 7, 2022 4:29am
Quoting Nsak3y
{quote}-You must have me confused for somebody else. But please elaborate, if you care to try.

Dont bother with him/her/it.
  • #9,844
  • Aug 7, 2022 5:16am Aug 7, 2022 5:16am
Quoting Thoughts
{quote}Invaluable as always! Much appreciated Takisd. To be honest, I don't mind the slippage as long as its reasonable; and by reasonable I mean no more than 10 pips. Its operational efficiency that matters the most for my purposes.. I'm actually leaning towards E8, I'm thinking to test out their 250K..
There's also a point in favour of E8 which is first payment after 7 days. After that is biweekly like TFF

Quote
he first payment will be eligible after 8 calendar days (8 days from the first day of the first trade). All other withdrawals can be submitted on a 14-day basis. Y

But, as I said, I never got a payment on E8 yet.
I know payment process is not very efficient in TFF but I don't have a clue how it runs in E8. Let's hope I can get there in a near future.
  • #9,845
  • Aug 7, 2022 5:32am Aug 7, 2022 5:32am
Quoting doji
What do you guys think? Would it be more advantageous to go with a prop that A) uses an outside broker (assuming it's reputable) or B) one that uses its own server for trading (with potential conflict-of-interest implications, since it's no secret that most props actually want their traders to repeatedly fail)?
Probably there's not a right answer.

I started with TFF when they were still using ICMarkets demo servers and that was really painful.
I'm not very active in terms of trade frequency and, even though, I saw a lot of times the servers freezing and people claiming about that in Discord.
The only answer from them was that they had reported to ICM and that ICM was working hard to solve it, whatever that means.
I was about to give up TFF because of that because it's a risk if TP or SL are not respected.

Since they moved to their own server this just stopped completely. I never experienced a freeze any longer. And didn't notice any particular slippage with this change (but I don't trade an high number of lots)
  • #9,846
  • Aug 7, 2022 7:56am Aug 7, 2022 7:56am
Quoting Nsak3y
{quote}-You must have me confused for somebody else. But please elaborate, if you care to try.
Lol, ya I thought I was responding to pipi.

your own money is better is because you have no restrictions or rules (and there are a lot of them) other than what you put on yourself.
If risk free is your thing, then you work on reducing risk. The fact that you are finding refuge in someone else to mitigate the risk for you indicates that you still have work to do.
However, I'm not converting you. It is just a fact that if you are good at trading, like anything else, you should be able to receive rewards for it without a middleman whose interests aren't yours.
  • #9,847
  • Aug 7, 2022 8:08am Aug 7, 2022 8:08am
My friend is trading at MFF and she said that spreads are harmful when the market opens at the beginning of a new week and every day.
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: Mon Spread.png Size: 29 KB

Has anyone had trouble with the MFF spread?
  • #9,848
  • Aug 7, 2022 8:13am Aug 7, 2022 8:13am
Quoting OutThere
{quote} Lol, ya I thought I was responding to pipi. your own money is better is because you have no restrictions or rules (and there are a lot of them) other than what you put on yourself. If risk free is your thing, then you work on reducing risk. The fact that you are finding refuge in someone else to mitigate the risk for you indicates that you still have work to do. However, I'm not converting you. It is just a fact that if you are good at trading, like anything else, you should be able to receive rewards for it without a middleman whose interests...
But there's also nothing wrong with multiple income streams.
  • #9,849
  • Edited 9:33am Aug 7, 2022 8:59am | Edited 9:33am
Quoting OutThere
your own money is better is because you have no restrictions or rules...The fact that you are finding refuge in someone else to mitigate the risk for you indicates that you still have work to do...It is just a fact that if you are good at trading, like anything else, you should be able to receive rewards for it without a middleman whose interests aren't yours.

-But this thinking is flawed and also presumptuous. Not everyone that seeks risk-free trading via prop is looking for refuge to mitigate risk. Does it mitigate risk? Absolutely. Is it the only way to do so? Absolutely not.

The rules imposed by prop are going to be subjective, depending on who you ask and how they trade etc.. For me, the rules are negligible and differ very little from what I do already, other than the higher-risk requirements for the challenge phases. With a trade copier, it basically becomes free money.

Many of us still trade our personal accounts, along with investing in things outside of trading. If you had the opportunity to diversify your income streams in a risk-free capacity, you would not do it? If so, then that just seems nonsensical and illogical. There are few exceptions to this, and most of them involve having large sums of capital already at your disposal.

Regarding middlemen and conflicting interests, does this not describe a broker? Even if you go direct and trade on an exchange, there is still a middleman that is not caring one iota about your interests. At least with prop, there is always a chance that they actually push your trades to live market, and have a vested interest in your success. But honestly, that does not even matter to me.
  • #9,850
  • Aug 7, 2022 9:00am Aug 7, 2022 9:00am
[quote=OutThere;14091919]
Quoting pipmaster77
{quote} I've seen your trading. Yes, you have to trade risk free. lol "People who trade extremely well", wasn't directed at you.
Yes, you saw an 11 day sample size at a prop firm which I now publicly steer people away from. Yes, definitely a good sample size out of 10+ years
  • #9,851
  • Aug 7, 2022 9:04am Aug 7, 2022 9:04am
Quoting FXTrader.FF
My friend is trading at MFF and she said that spreads are harmful when the market opens at the beginning of a new week and every day. {image} Has anyone had trouble with the MFF spread?
Oh my. Yes, it is called rollover. Your firend is not yet ready for trading, their own account or porp. Must learn some very basic things first.
  • #9,852
  • Aug 7, 2022 9:05am Aug 7, 2022 9:05am
Quoting OutThere
{quote} Lol, ya I thought I was responding to pipi. your own money is better is because you have no restrictions or rules (and there are a lot of them) other than what you put on yourself. If risk free is your thing, then you work on reducing risk. The fact that you are finding refuge in someone else to mitigate the risk for you indicates that you still have work to do. However, I'm not converting you. It is just a fact that if you are good at trading, like anything else, you should be able to receive rewards for it without a middleman whose interests...
and....if you are a good trader, wouldn't earning 20x the return FOR THE SAME EFFORT be a good thing. Never mind, I must learn not to engage. Complete waste of time.
  • #9,853
  • Aug 7, 2022 9:28am Aug 7, 2022 9:28am
Quoting Thoughts
{quote}Invaluable as always! Much appreciated Takisd. To be honest, I don't mind the slippage as long as its reasonable; and by reasonable I mean no more than 10 pips. Its operational efficiency that matters the most for my purposes.. I'm actually leaning towards E8, I'm thinking to test out their 250K..
Forgot to mention something that may be (or not) relevant. E8Funding limits funded capital allocated to 300K while TFF is 400K.
  • #9,854
  • Aug 7, 2022 10:08am Aug 7, 2022 10:08am
Quoting doji
@ takisd, have you changed your mind about 8Cap? At the rate new props are choosing to partner with them, they're poised to take over and establish a monopoly! Or does it ultimately depend on the "integrity" of the people behind the prop at the end of the day? I recall that e8 initially used them as partner-broker (maybe they still do) and yet, people seem to find e8 satisfactory. What do you guys think? Would it be more advantageous to go with a prop that A) uses an outside broker (assuming it's reputable) or B) one that uses its own server for...
I definitely vote for own server. Matter of fact, it is pretty much a deal breaker for me.
1. It shows more of a commitment to long term as opposed to piggy backing someone else's feed. This is probably artificial though, as it may be just as simple to set up your own. This would be a takisd question.
2. More important....less moving parts. I started with FTMO on an LMAX feed, was pumped as in the US, I don't have access to LMAX....horrible experience. Spreads were atrocious, platform was very "clanky"...freezing, etc. Growing pains as they migrated to their own, but we all know how stable they are now. MFF started with Tickmill but they were already in the process of their own. No issues with Tickmill at all though. TFF....once again IC Markets, great right? another one I cannot access here in the States.....read feedback here, didn't do it.....once they announced their own feed, tried a 10K er, everything great......doing a 100K now. I am waiting for E8 to fix their spreads on indices and might give them a go. These are the only 4 I believe to have their own, but I am not 100% confident that others do not.
To me, if the prop is out to get you, they will get you, own server or not. However, I believe if they are using a 3rd party for the broker, it would actually be easier to hurt you as they always have that broker as a crutch to blame. If it's in house, well, no one to blame. It was us and we'll fix it would be the response.
  • #9,855
  • Aug 7, 2022 10:32am Aug 7, 2022 10:32am
Quoting FXTrader.FF
My friend is trading at MFF and she said that spreads are harmful when the market opens at the beginning of a new week and every day.
//----

that's common with all brokers..... first hour of new week and first hour after new york close....h
to trade and code, keep both simple... no call to impress....h
  • #9,856
  • Aug 7, 2022 11:03am Aug 7, 2022 11:03am
Quoting pipmaster77
{quote} I definitely vote for own server. Matter of fact, it is pretty much a deal breaker for me. 1. It shows more of a commitment to long term as opposed to piggy backing someone else's feed. This is probably artificial though, as it may be just as simple to set up your own. This would be a takisd question. 2. More important....less moving parts. I started with FTMO on an LMAX feed, was pumped as in the US, I don't have access to LMAX....horrible experience. Spreads were atrocious, platform was very "clanky"...freezing, etc. Growing pains as they...
The Prop Trading uses BRKHoldings-Demo
I never found anything called BRKHoldings so I guess is their own as well.
Never experienced a single freeze there.
  • #9,857
  • Aug 7, 2022 11:15am Aug 7, 2022 11:15am
Quoting Capablanca
{quote} The Prop Trading uses BRKHoldings-Demo I never found anything called BRKHoldings so I guess is their own as well. Never experienced a single freeze there.

It is their own. When the first came out we established that. Its also kinda dodgy, I had an account with them and I was getting execution off price all the time. Complained and they said "Thats the market". Then they had the whole hidden lot size rule debacle and the hack and I thought they would be dead by now... unfortunately not.
  • #9,858
  • Aug 7, 2022 11:37am Aug 7, 2022 11:37am
Quoting Takisd
{quote} It is their own. When the first came out we established that. Its also kinda dodgy, I had an account with them and I was getting execution off price all the time. Complained and they said "Thats the market". Then they had the whole hidden lot size rule debacle and the hack and I thought they would be dead by now... unfortunately not.
They have wider spreads (probably to offset zero commissions) but I never noticed to have experienced any slippage with these guys, even in funded. SL or TP always exactly in the point (which I know is suspicious but anyway I'm just stating facts)

The hidden rule is gone now, as we spoke here some time ago. On payouts they are pretty efficient without downtime and payouts in cryptos about 24, max 48 business hours after.
They have a rule, though, that I don't like which is the copy thing. If one have the same pair in two different account it may open the door to be kicked. They are very unclear with that rule (probably intentionally). I have more than one account there and never trade the same pair simultaneously, just in case.
  • #9,859
  • Aug 7, 2022 12:14pm Aug 7, 2022 12:14pm
Quoting TrAndy1
{quote} The Prop Trading alias TPT uses a broker, it is not their own server! Just confirmed this fact by chat. See here: https://thebrokerscapital.com/en/home-2/ This what they said from chat 2 minutes ago: {image}
So, confirmed 4 have their own server......FTMO, MFF, TFF and E8. Unless some of the newer, much smaller firms do, but that would be highly unlikely I suspect.
  • #9,860
  • Aug 7, 2022 12:15pm Aug 7, 2022 12:15pm
Quoting TrAndy1
The Prop Trading alias TPT uses a broker, it is not their own server! Just confirmed this fact by chat. See here: https://thebrokerscapital.com/en/home-2/ This is what they said from chat 2 minutes ago: {image}

Deep dive, you will find the owner of TPT is the owner of TBSC or whatever they wanna call it. Originally the site was only in spanish and pretty clearly stated the two were the same owner. Now its a bit less obvious.

People can still get mt5 servers easily
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