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  • #9,001
  • Jul 4, 2022 1:48am Jul 4, 2022 1:48am
Some spare notes:
- E8 funding takes about 1 hour to provide credentials for phase 2 after phase 1 is completed
- Another 2 payouts received from The Prop Trading. As usual taking 24 to 48 hours and paid in crypto.
- Still on The Prop Trading, they waived the lot restrictions for new accounts from July 1st. For past funded accounts the limit still exists, despite they provide new credentials after each payout (I confirmed this with support).
  • #9,002
  • Jul 4, 2022 2:40am Jul 4, 2022 2:40am
Quoting TrAndy1
Just want to mention that I looked through many various prop firms and their scores. As I can say my list is complete. Any prop firms offering mainly futures as traded instruments you can forget them all, they have much worse scores in relation to other prop firms on my list. Second, if you are looking for any direct funding models, the best one I found is from Finotive Funding, also on my list with an overall higher score than FTMO. All the other direct funding models you can forget them. So we only need to look when there are newcomers, which...
Hate to be the devil's advocate but this is good information, the only thing which needs to be removed is your ranking.

You rank something just because of the price of discounts or profit split or a percent lower target and give it top position?

You have to factor in a lot of stuff if ranking e.g how many platforms to trade on they offer? What are their spreads? Do they allow EAs ? Is their Drawdown based on EQUITY or balance? Etc..

If you don't include the conditions which are able to make you pass a challenge or not then is it really genuine ranking lol

Besides that it's good information to be able to compare the basic information between propfirms. Just remove your ranking.
"Cut your loses short and let the winners Run"
  • #9,003
  • Jul 4, 2022 2:41am Jul 4, 2022 2:41am
Quoting meck1
{quote} Hate to be the devil's advocate but this is good information, the only thing which needs to be removed is your ranking. You rank something just because of the price of discounts or profit split or a percent lower target and give it top position? You have to factor in a lot of stuff if ranking e.g how many platforms to trade on they offer? What are their spreads? Do they allow EAs ? Is their Drawdown based on EQUITY or balance? Etc.. If you don't include the conditions which are able...
did you read through all the posts regarding what you are pointing out?
  • #9,004
  • Jul 4, 2022 2:51am Jul 4, 2022 2:51am
Quoting meck1
{quote} Hate to be the devil's advocate but this is good information, the only thing which needs to be removed is your ranking. You rank something just because of the price of discounts or profit split or a percent lower target and give it top position? You have to factor in a lot of stuff if ranking e.g how many platforms to trade on they offer? What are their spreads? Do they allow EAs ? Is their Drawdown based on EQUITY or balance? Etc.. If you don't include the conditions which are able...
The ranking is a result of objective data calculation, not depending upon opinions, so it's the same for everybody and a starting point to investigate further.

All the rest is subjective so it can't be valued objectively. Myself, for example, I don't care if they allow EA because I don't use them and spreads don't bother me much because I do little trades and low lots.

You can start by the ranking that Trandy calculated and then give yourself the ponderation to those subjective factors (EA, spreads, payout process, DD calculation, etc), depending on how much importance you give to each of those items, personally. You will have your own, personal, ranking.
  • #9,005
  • Jul 4, 2022 3:05am Jul 4, 2022 3:05am
Quoting mixedbags
{quote} did you read through all the posts regarding what you are pointing out?
I read a few but will go back further
"Cut your loses short and let the winners Run"
  • #9,006
  • Jul 4, 2022 3:11am Jul 4, 2022 3:11am
Quoting Capablanca
{quote} The ranking is a result of objective data calculation, not depending upon opinions, so it's the same for everybody and a starting point to investigate further. All the rest is subjective so it can't be valued objectively. Myself, for example, I don't care if they allow EA because I don't use them and spreads don't bother me much because I do little trades and low lots. You can start by the ranking that Trandy calculated and then give yourself the ponderation to those subjective factors (EA, spreads, payout process, DD calculation, etc),...
I hear what you are saying, I guess if it's just on the objective collection then it's okay. Aslong as people know there's more to it than that then it's okay. I get you know
"Cut your loses short and let the winners Run"
  • #9,007
  • Jul 4, 2022 3:15am Jul 4, 2022 3:15am
Quoting Capablanca
Still on The Prop Trading, they waived the lot restrictions for new accounts from July 1st. For past funded accounts the limit still exists, despite they provide new credentials after each payout (I confirmed this with support).
-Hopefully, they allow older accounts to be grandfathered in (assuming that the newer accounts were not offered at a different price-point or something). Otherwise, that just seems like it would become a PR mess.
  • #9,008
  • Jul 4, 2022 4:02am Jul 4, 2022 4:02am
Quoting meck1
{quote} I hear what you are saying, I guess if it's just on the objective collection then it's okay. Aslong as people know there's more to it than that then it's okay. I get you know
Highly recommend that you read previous posts.

You have missed alot of already posted information.

Nevertheless perhaps a note under the table would be appropriate.

Masterrmind.........
Master your Mind then Master your Trades
  • #9,009
  • Jul 4, 2022 4:44am Jul 4, 2022 4:44am
Reading through some pretty awesome discussion in here. Its awesome, everything awesome. I will try to fit the word awesome in a bit more.

Anyway, there is one strange thing I read that someone believes a broker makes money from spread and commission. In some cases yes, but in most cases the spread of a retail broker is better than liquidity.

Taking ICMarkets as an example, when their EURUSD spread is at 0.0 its likely only possible due to order matching and not from external liquidity providers. The order matching can be an internal network between brokers from their hub provider or internal in their userbase (they have a massive userbase). At the institutional level spread is rarely 0 for eurusd unless the market is inverted which happens almost never due to the arbitrage opportunity (not latency arb, price arb). To assume a broker makes spread is a mistake, as its a naturally occurring phenomenon in the market based on the bids and asks. If the spread is inflated (for eurusd say beyond 0.5 because some of the higher liquidity LP's have spreads that high for scalping flow) then yes the broker makes spread. Commission is almost entirely the brokers, the costs for a small retail brokerage are about 1$ per lot RT for execution if they STP, and go to as low as 30c per lot RT.

An example that I used to give to people I was training on dealing desks was that it is impossible to get solid liquidity (with depth) for scalping flow below 0.5 pips on eurusd and the per million was always higher than regular flow. If you try to execute scalping flow on a retail feed, the feed will drop.

But if we teach retail traders such things, they will call people scammers because they think that more volume = better conditions, when it is in fact the opposite because someone has to take the risk on the other side.
  • #9,010
  • Jul 4, 2022 5:09am Jul 4, 2022 5:09am
Quoting meck1
{quote} I read a few but will go back further
My ranking with the objective measure started over 45 pages ago here. You need to go back little bit more here. As I already said several times here, also in the last 2 pages, that trading conditions and hidden rules are not considered, because they depend too much on each trader his trading style. You just cannot make a kind of ranking with that included because it would be much too subjective. As I said, my ranking is an orientation and not totally ready solution, because everyone needs to check further conditions and rules of each prop firm with his trading style, whether one prop firm is better for him or not. I just do not want to repeat that info over and over again. I am not selling anything here, just to provide value to other readers here. Just go back and read more. I am sure you will find some value with my score.
  • #9,011
  • Jul 4, 2022 7:11am Jul 4, 2022 7:11am
Quoting TrAndy1
{quote} My ranking with the objective measure ....

appreciate it.
Q:
https://www.forexfactory.com/thread/...9#post14053089
was objective for example include there that BluFX has literally a 3:1 leverage for their 50k acct?
(ie. 150k buying power)
and still a high rank?

just tryign to understand it, bcos in my head that miss the objective mark for example. a slip up? or i am in the wrong with my idea of "good" prop offers?
there is always, always another trade!!
  • #9,012
  • Jul 4, 2022 7:35am Jul 4, 2022 7:35am
Quoting TrAndy1
{quote} Yes, I skipped BluFX despite its good high score because of the very leverage of only 3:1, which are for the most here, I assume over 99%, a useless offer.
Q again: why did it had good high score to start with?
there is always, always another trade!!
  • #9,013
  • Jul 4, 2022 7:42am Jul 4, 2022 7:42am
Quoting profitfarmer
{quote} Q again: why did it had good high score to start with?
The score is the same calculated formula for all props, that is why it is objective. They had good fee offer with goals and DD figures, but I disregarded them in the end because of that ultralow leverage, which for the most means, they cannot make the profit goal in a shorter period of time. As I know BluFX have no time limits though.
  • #9,014
  • Jul 4, 2022 7:45am Jul 4, 2022 7:45am
BluFx is difficult to evaluate because it has monthly fee
And 1:3 is not exactly 1:3 because on GBP pairs they take 110% margin and on remaining ones they take 140% margin.
So, in reality, it's 1:273 and 1:2.14 leverage
  • #9,015
  • Jul 4, 2022 8:55am Jul 4, 2022 8:55am
Quoting Nsak3y
{quote}-Hopefully, they allow older accounts to be grandfathered in (assuming that the newer accounts were not offered at a different price-point or something). Otherwise, that just seems like it would become a PR mess.
I got the information from support but this come officially by email marketing: (The prop trading)

Quote
You asked we listened. We are very excited to share the news with you
Lot size limit - REMOVED !!!
Valid for all Funded Accounts with Agreement signed from 01.07.2022
Congratulations to our Trading Community!...

So it's clear that only new funded accounts, with agreement signed after July 1st, will have the lot limit removed.
  • #9,016
  • Jul 4, 2022 9:22am Jul 4, 2022 9:22am
Quoting TrAndy1
Just want to mention that I looked through many various prop firms and their scores. As I can say my list is complete. Any prop firms offering mainly futures as traded instruments you can forget them all, they have much worse scores in relation to other prop firms on my list. Second, if you are looking for any direct funding models, the best one I found is from Finotive Funding, also on my list with an overall higher score than FTMO. All the other direct funding models you can forget them. So we only need to look when there are newcomers, which...
A small correction for a future release of the table: The Prop Trading is 8% target phase 1.
  • #9,017
  • Jul 4, 2022 9:23am Jul 4, 2022 9:23am
TrAndy sheet is simply a value of how much more value you receive paying that particular firms fee vs. trading that "fee" in a personal account. It is only using DD provided * profit split offered, targets required and fee paid ( minus any discounts). If a score is 10 it simply means you will receive 10 times your "fee" as allowable loss vs. placing that in your own personal account and trading through the stages of the evaluation (challenge). A score of 0.5 means you will get half of your fee. It just demonstrates the "bang for your buck" and also shows the "legal rip-offs" aka direct funding, with scores under 1.

The lastest sheet where he recommends "only choose from this pool" is showing the firms which we know payout, have good trading conditions (leverage, spread, commish) and no tricky hidden rules. Of that pool, one can then pick the highest value firm(s) which suits their trading style.

IMO, it still goes back to no need to look any further until you have maxed FTMO and MFF. That will give you 1 million with 112K allowable DD, and about 93K once factoring the split, before any scaling. Once you have accomplished this, your next pool would be form TrueForex, TheFundedTrader, E8 and possibly ThePropTrading with their new rules.

MFF and FTMO, I speak from first hand experience and you will find nothing but positive feedback from those actually trading properly with them. My next pool is based on payout proof and opinions on trading conditions through folks I trust 100%.

To execute the prop world correctly, this should be treated as a business, with challenge fees being an expense taken from revenue of profit splits. Grow it just like you would any business. Of course, there is some upfront cost to get you off the ground, once again, just like any business.

For the naysayers, I get it, doesn't sit right with you. Where does the capital come from? Is it a ponzi? Do the trades go to market? Are the fees the only source of revenue? We can sit and speculate these things all day, while these firms continue to send out mid and high 5 figure and even 6 figure profit splits. If you are even just a little above average trader, you should be making a killing with this business model. If you are a good trader, you could retire a multi millionaire in under 5 years.

Once again, only if treated like a business. 95%+ people are failing, same folks depositing over and over again in a personal broker account. There is gambling and there is trading. Try to get rich overnight, YOU WILL NOT LAST. You may get funded, even get a few payouts, but eventually you will blow up. Used properly, where you actually reduce risk the bigger your fund gets......YOU WILL NEVER BLOW UP and the potential is huge.

As has been stated numerous times, do your own due diligence.
  • #9,018
  • Jul 4, 2022 9:32am Jul 4, 2022 9:32am
Quoting Capablanca
BluFx is difficult to evaluate because it has monthly fee And 1:3 is not exactly 1:3 because on GBP pairs they take 110% margin and on remaining ones they take 140% margin. So, in reality, it's 1:273 and 1:2.14 leverage
Once again, it is info like this, from first hand experience, which makes this thread priceless. If you are considering prop trading and actually do a bit of research on this thread, I would say we can pretty much guarantee you will be off to a great start with a good firm and avoid any with no value or not so trader friendly conditions. Success is up to you, but this thread will set you up with the best chance.
  • #9,019
  • Jul 4, 2022 9:47am Jul 4, 2022 9:47am
I will dive into finotive tomorrow if my cards allow me and report back. The broker seems shady but lets see, also i dont like the way all these influencers are some how now praising payouts from them like they have been around 10 yrs but we will see. It shouldnt take too long to find out if they will pay or not.
  • #9,020
  • Jul 4, 2022 10:12am Jul 4, 2022 10:12am
Quoting Capablanca
So it's clear that only new funded accounts, with agreement signed after July 1st, will have the lot limit removed.
-Thanks for sharing. This decision seems questionable. Why not just issue new contracts to existing traders that want to remove the lot size restriction? Unless there is a 3rd-party involved, then issuing new contracts should not be an issue.

Typically, whenever you see a change like this, a firm has decided to go with a new broker/backer (or abandon old ones), so I suppose that it could explain any 3rd-party conflicts and why simply issuing new contracts would not be possible on the old accounts.

The other possibility is greed, obviously, as it would force traders to sign up for another challenge in order to benefit from the new rules.
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Metcalfe