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  • #8,561
  • Jun 17, 2022 12:59pm Jun 17, 2022 12:59pm
Quoting Capablanca
The Funder Trader are also thinking about opening a physical office in US. From Discord: {quote} I've said several times that I think these guys are the ones that are really pushing forward. Large community, very active, lots of investment in marketing channels, new initiatives, etc. They've been having +1M monthly payouts recently (believing in what they say) and they are very dynamic and aggressive to eat a pie of the market. Let's see where this is heading. We know that Funding Talent was also quite aggressive but I think these guys are doing...

I trade with them and have since they pretty much started. Here are my observations:

1) They lie a lot in their marketing
2) They don't know much about trading at all
3) They have outsourced pretty much everything they do
4) When they started they opted for scammy brokers for their platform, now they use 8cap under fpfx and pay per user for demo accounts (I scouted out starting my own and the exact same set up was offered to me) they dont have a legit live instance.
5) If they had their own server, they don't have any idea how to manage it.
6) They have reversed a lot of profitable trades on traders citing "we were unable to copy the trade" when they aren't actually copying trades.

So whilst they are paying me despite their bad trading conditions, they are not revolutionizing anything. My impression of them is that they change strategy and copy competitors, the new product is just an attempt to try to take market share from MFF now that MFF appears to be the biggest on the market, their original programs were an attempt to take market share from FTMO, which from the web traffic data, they failed at but they brought new entrants into the market I believe from youtube and mail campaigns. Their ideas don't come off as their own other than the whole chess thing and meeting up to drink and sit on a boat but nothing of substance in regards to professional trading.

Physical presence, meh. I live near the sea, some people might aspire to sit in a room with others but I'd much rather not have to think about others copying my work. I also don't want someone to scream "lesss goooooooooo" when they make a trade. But thats just me.
  • #8,562
  • Jun 17, 2022 1:45pm Jun 17, 2022 1:45pm
Quoting Takisd
{quote} I trade with them and have since they pretty much started. Here are my observations: 1) They lie a lot in their marketing 2) They don't know much about trading at all 3) They have outsourced pretty much everything they do 4) When they started they opted for scammy brokers for their platform, now they use 8cap under fpfx and pay per user for demo accounts (I scouted out starting my own and the exact same set up was offered to me) they dont have a legit live instance. 5) If they had their own server, they don't have any idea how to manage...
Thanks for the insights Takisd. Good as always.
I'm also with them for a long time and never had any problem, both in trading and in payouts. But I don't do many trades per week and use very little leverage (rarely more than 10, usually up to 5).
Something I noticed is that they reply much faster and efficiently than MFF. My experience was bad in MFF and TPT but good in TFT until now.
  • #8,563
  • Jun 17, 2022 3:25pm Jun 17, 2022 3:25pm
Quoting Takisd
..I also don't want someone to scream "lesss goooooooooo" when they make a trade. But thats just me.
..youve got me wondering what trading floors you've been on..
  • #8,564
  • Edited 9:20pm Jun 18, 2022 7:24am | Edited 9:20pm
Do the pro firm refuse to pay your profits if you have a funded Account, make profits on it and exceed limits?

hon·est
adjective =free of deceit and untruthfulness; sincere.
================================
Myforexfund is not an honest pro firm.
#1 MYFOREXFUND promises that the trader will never pay for losses if any.
# 2 But my forexfund will refuse to pay if you have a funded Account, make profits on it and exceed limits.
My forexfund call it not respecting the capital if you make profits in less thant 10 days of trading and they will refuse to pay you if you have a funded Account, make profits on it and exceed limits.
myforexfund will ACUSE YOU of not showing respect for the capital if you miss any of there 3 parameters and my forexfund will refused to pay upu your split of the profits.
Please read this stupids rules before you pay to myforexfund to try to get a funded account:
In order to receive 50% of your profits if you have violated your account and it is in profit you must comply with the following 3 parameters:
1) You must have a stop loss on every trade
Scalping 1 minutes chart never use stoploss in fast trading, This just an excuse to steal your profits and make you payback by refusing to pay your lat paycheck.
2) You must not be “all-in” on your trades and violate from a single trade or single batch of trades
3) You must have traded 10 trading days.
Why maKING a profit in less thant 10 days give you the right to refuse to pay my split of the profits?
All this parameters are just a way to steal the trader profits
Note: If you have compiled all 3 rules mentioned above, you will have to contact with us in 7 days after the violation for the profit split. Any request about the 7 day period will be rejected.
You are correct, a stop loss is not mandatory however, as stated on our rules if you violate in profit and don't have a stop loss on every trade you will not be paid.

The reason for this is it shows you have no risk management on the account and are not respecting our funds we are providing to you. If you don't respect us by managing our funds properly and carefully with risk, then we will not pay you.

Does trading and making a profits in less thamt 10 have anything to do with respecting your funds that you are providing?NO,You just want to steal your traders profits.
=================

If you read the rules and ask question in the live chat before you decide to pay,you can avoid the company that swear not to pay what you earned under any parameter.

Betwen myforexfund .com and ftmo.com You can see that FTMO, will pay you if accound get suspended

Hi Williamk ,

We are sending you the chat transcript you requested.


name: Williamk| email: xxxx

Mouhaned Radjati (07:06:28): Hello, my name is Mouhaned. How can I help you?
Williamk (07:07:04): hi please tell me about my risk when trading your funds who take the risk?
Mouhaned Radjati (07:08:47): FTMO will cover the losses, if any.
Williamk (07:11:50): even if i violate any rule but my account end up in profits you will split that profits and close my account?
Mouhaned Radjati (07:12:07): If you exceeded the Maximum Loss / Maximum Daily Loss limit on your FTMO Account, it was automatically submitted for a thorough review. Unfortunately, if the violation is confirmed, your FTMO Account will be deactivated, and the contract terminated. You will also receive a confirmation to your registered email.

In case your final balance is in profit, the residue amount will be split accordingly on the following date after your Profit Split Date as shown in the Account MetriX. You will also receive a refund for the initial FTMO Challenge fee.
Williamk (07:13:33): thanks
  • #8,565
  • Jun 18, 2022 10:07am Jun 18, 2022 10:07am
Quoting Capablanca
{quote} Thanks for the insights Takisd. Good as always. I'm also with them for a long time and never had any problem, both in trading and in payouts. But I don't do many trades per week and use very little leverage (rarely more than 10, usually up to 5). Something I noticed is that they reply much faster and efficiently than MFF. My experience was bad in MFF and TPT but good in TFT until now.

I think your experience with MFF is purely due to size. They are very big TFT isn't.

If you are following their instagram or facebook you will see their monthly payouts in just phase bonuses is the same as TFT's total profit split payouts.
  • #8,566
  • Jun 18, 2022 10:07am Jun 18, 2022 10:07am
Quoting Lata44
In order to receive 50% of your profits if you have violated your account and it is in profit you must comply with the following 3 parameters:
-I personally do not agree with MFF's policy regarding this. But, their money, their rules. The good thing is, as traders, we have other options. Best time to be a trader.
  • #8,567
  • Jun 18, 2022 10:08am Jun 18, 2022 10:08am
Quoting Lata44
Do the pro firm refuse to pay your profits if you have a funded Account, make profits on it and exceed limits? hon·est adjective =free of deceit and untruthfulness; sincere. ================================ Myforexfund is not an honest pro firm. #1 MYFOREXFUND promises that the trader will never pay for losses if any. # 2 But my forexfund will refuse to pay if you have a funded Account, make profits on it and exceed limits. My forexfund call it not respecting the capital if you make profits in less thant 10 days of trading and they will refuse to...


Its on their website, you should read the rules before paying for any program. MFF, FTMO TFTP all pay traders. They all have rules around whether or not someone gets a profit split and they all present those rules publicly. I have never had a problem with any of their rules ever and their rules never change.
  • #8,568
  • Jun 18, 2022 10:11am Jun 18, 2022 10:11am
Quoting Nsak3y
{quote}-I personally do not agree with MFF's policy regarding this. But, their money, their rules. The good thing is, as traders, we have other options. Best time to be a trader.

Dno if you hit a 5% dd regardless of your account situation, I think you are not respecting capital. My only thing is if its presented publicly and transparently, in this case it is.

There are a few in FTMO's fine print that are a bit nervy and TFTP have a few catch alls as well. I think the most important thing is to consider you are trading others capital (even if you are not) and take steps in order to preserve it as if its your own.
  • #8,569
  • Jun 18, 2022 10:14am Jun 18, 2022 10:14am
Quoting Nsak3y
{quote}-I personally do not agree with MFF's policy regarding this. But, their money, their rules. The good thing is, as traders, we have other options. Best time to be a trader.
It has been stated numerous times here, backed up by math and various spreadsheets, DIRECT FUNDING has you pay for more than you are receiving. MFF happens to be the only firm that I know of that offers evaluation and direct funding. Do the evaluation, you will not have any issues. Still beyond me how someone looks at the DD offered, looks at the fee being higher than the DD and says to themselves,"Yep, looks like a good deal to me"
  • #8,570
  • Jun 18, 2022 10:19am Jun 18, 2022 10:19am
Quoting pipmaster77
{quote} It has been stated numerous times here, backed up by math and various spreadsheets, DIRECT FUNDING has you pay for more than you are receiving. MFF happens to be the only firm that I know of that offers evaluation and direct funding. Do the evaluation, you will not have any issues. Still beyond me how someone looks at the DD offered, looks at the fee being higher than the DD and says to themselves,"Yep, looks like a good deal to me"

Hes referring to the guys who go in profit then violate on the live account after evaluation. But have no stop losses, are all in, rise up then violate daily drawdown rules not getting 50% profit split because they have no stops or not enough trading days. I suspect the majority of these cases are no stops. But there are like 100's of reports from people who obey the rules and violate but get the 50%. So yeh.. To me the whole 50% argument is mute, because I make sure I dont violate daily (If I am going down its on overall) and because my positions have stops and my size isn't all in.
  • #8,571
  • Jun 18, 2022 10:26am Jun 18, 2022 10:26am
Quoting Takisd
Dno if you hit a 5% dd regardless of your account situation, I think you are not respecting capital.
-I do not disagree. However, I just do not agree with the policy. It is not a deal-breaker for me, personally. As I say, their money, their rules. I accept that. I just prefer being able to keep the profits that I earned, regardless of whether or not I did a good job.

I still did the job, just not to their liking. If you work at burger king, you will get paid for your time, whether you do a good job or not. They can fire you, sure, and maybe rightfully so, but they should still pay you for the time that you worked, even if you did not clean the floors in the way that they expected. Maybe they hold your check for two weeks or whatever, but you will still get your money...not half of it, but all of the money that you earned. Maybe they don't hire you again, okay, fair enough, but I am still getting the money that I earned.

If Burger King stated clearly on their application that if you do not do a good job, according their their expectations, then they hold the right to refuse 50% of your paycheck, then that still does not make it right, no matter how you slice it.

In the case of MFF, they are imposing requirements that are not otherwise required. And why? Only because you did not respect their capital? If you trade your live account with the same risk parameters and profit targets as their challenge, is that respecting their capital? Just saying.

But we can both agree that, if we don't like it, we do not have to trade with them. Simple enough. We can choose not to work for Burger King, too...hopefully.

Quoting pipmaster77
It has been stated numerous times here, backed up by math and various spreadsheets, DIRECT FUNDING
-See above.
  • #8,572
  • Jun 18, 2022 10:46am Jun 18, 2022 10:46am
Quoting Nsak3y
{quote}-I do not disagree. However, I just do not agree with the policy. It is not a deal-breaker for me, personally. As I say, their money, their rules. I accept that. I just prefer being able to keep the profits that I earned, regardless of whether or not I did a good job. I still did the job, just not to their liking. If you work at burger king, you will get paid for your time, whether you do a good job or not. They can fire you, sure, and maybe rightfully so, but they should still pay you for the time that you worked, even if you did not clean...
tbh i wish those rules were in the evaluation phases. It would most certainly help in making the prop firm market be more real. At some point in time all of these companies will die because of the mentality of its traders and the inability (yes its inability) to send traders who trade like this to the market. If they did, it would take like 2 weeks to bankrupt one of them from the amount of loss they would get. You cannot appropriately analyze a good trader from a bad if a trader is always all in with no stop losses and sending the flow to the market is suicide for multiple reasons, firstly its shit flow with no edge, secondly it will likely increase slippage etc server wide because of the size of execution. There was a guy recently screaming about a company (I cant remember which) that was saying he didnt get paid, but his daily volumes were bigger than the share markets he was trading. You can't fill that if you did, even the SEC would get involved, but the billions in margin.....

If I look at TFTP as an example as I use them so i have a fair bit of familiarity with them, their new program is a slightly cheaper MFF with one or two different parameters. They completely changed their old program which got them to where they are now and did it in a way that clearly suggest their overhead is too high and they appear to be blaming the DD rule for that. I believe their presumption is that if they use equity DD as a rule, their overheads will drop. They are in for a rude awakening.

A quick trip down instagram will show the number of traders at FTMO, MFF, e8 etc who are virtually all in all the time on US30,NAS, gold, hoping to strike it rich from a single pay period. They do not hold trades over night so the DD rule doesn't do anything in regards to risk. If the next day they lose 5%, screw them, its insulting that they were funded to begin with. They made the market look like the casino that some think it is, they don't deserve to be rewarded for it and potentially ruin it for everyone else.
But I think now that Blake and the gang have enabled EA's, they are in for a surprise there are so many tricks you can do with a metatrader server that isn't legit trading and print money. If I was a gambling man (which I am not, I have a stop loss and risk management) I would put money on TFTP being the first of the 3 I use to burn to the ground and likely in the same manner FT did, program changes, delays, rule changes after the fact etc. Anything to stop overheads getting out of hand.

FTMO stop a lot of the toxic behavior with their news rule. Actually, I think all of it. But they also pay people to do interviews for them see: Lamboraul, so whats real and whats not, no one knows. MFF have their 50% rule, i can live with it as i am compliant, some can't. TFTP have their "if we can't copy it to our account" rule, despite not having "our account" which they rely on as well. All in all, i think the best place to be in this market is fully funded at each company and making small % gains at each, avoid the radar and move to trinidad and drink pinas.
  • #8,573
  • Edited 11:59am Jun 18, 2022 11:48am | Edited 11:59am
Quoting pipmaster77
{quote} It has been stated numerous times here, backed up by math and various spreadsheets, DIRECT FUNDING has you pay for more than you are receiving. MFF happens to be the only firm that I know of that offers evaluation and direct funding. Do the evaluation, you will not have any issues. Still beyond me how someone looks at the DD offered, looks at the fee being higher than the DD and says to themselves,"Yep, looks like a good deal to me"
MFF :

I do evaluation only.

Once when I violoted daily loss limit, my account balance and equity was more than 100k.

And the trades by which I violoted all had stop loss in place.

( It is only the trades by which the daily loss limit got violated had stop loss, trades prior to that ....some had stops and some not :

I traded more than 10 days.

Mr. Kane refused to pay.

I asked for reasons, but not replied.

And in my view, because of this reason, I put down myforexfunds rating, for sure.

Hope Mr. Yavuz from MFF reads this and takes suitable action.
Intraday only.
  • #8,574
  • Jun 18, 2022 11:53am Jun 18, 2022 11:53am
Quoting Takisd
...
-Great post.

Quoting Takisd
tbh i wish those rules were in the evaluation phases. It would most certainly help in making the prop firm market be more real. At some point in time all of these companies will die because of the mentality of its traders and the inability (yes its inability) to send traders who trade like this to the market.
-I agree with this in principle. The only thing I would say is that, I would feel more comfortable knowing that a firm has the potential for long-term survivability (profit) in place, in the way of failed challenge fees, if anything, as a security blanket knowing that they are going to be around for a while.

I also think that having stronger challenges allows these firms to filter out and sign on traders much faster, which is good for traders that are looking to get funded but do not want to trade on a demo account for 6 months to prove themselves. Whether or not a trader that passes these challenges can be considered as 'good' is another matter.

That being said, I completely agree, and have expressed this a few times, that these challenges can send a bad message and set a bad theme. I personally accept the trade-off, though.

Quoting Takisd
If I look at TFTP ... They completely changed their old program ... They are in for a rude awakening.
-If I remember correctly, when they first started, they publicly stated that they do not actually make any trades on their end, and that they actually profit from selling trading data (or something similar to this). Whether or not that was even true is unknown to me.

Quoting Takisd
All in all, i think the best place to be in this market is fully funded at each company and making small % gains at each, avoid the radar and move to trinidad and drink pinas.
-100% agree (except, somewhere in SE Asia for me, and I personally like a good root beer). Having several accounts, with small, consistent trades is the way to go for several reasons. However, and we would probably disagree with this based on your other comments, I do think that having a 'fun', high-risk account, preferably through a different firm, can also good. Good for the trader, at least.

And although I do know that it creates a bad environment and may not be good for the firm, I also think that if these firms continue to promote these high-risk challenges and continue to allow similar, high-risk trading, meanwhile promoting 100K+ monthly payouts like it is a great thing, then they cannot really complain when a trader does it.

I suppose that the primary justification is this assumption that they are making so much bank with failed challenges, that it would likely not put a dent in their operation since only a few traders would actually be able to trade this way long enough to see a pay day. I could be wrong about this assumption, but based on some of the published statistics, it seems difficult for me to think otherwise.
  • #8,575
  • Jun 18, 2022 12:01pm Jun 18, 2022 12:01pm
MFF :

What do they mean by this rule ?

2) You must not be “all-in” on your trades and violate from a single trade or single batch of trade


Any one ?
Intraday only.
  • #8,576
  • Jun 18, 2022 12:13pm Jun 18, 2022 12:13pm
You would likely need to get confirmed clarification from MFF to be sure, but in my mind, it simply means that you cannot violate your draw-down limits on a single trade, or, a single batch of trades (presumably, the same instrument). In other words, scaling into your position on a single instrument that results in draw-down violation would constitute non-compliance with this rule.

Clarification would be needed in order to discern whether or not this includes multiple instruments, where the violation occurred during the same trading session. Too ambiguous for my tastes.
  • #8,577
  • Jun 18, 2022 12:24pm Jun 18, 2022 12:24pm
Quoting navk
{quote} MFF : I do evaluation only. Once when I violoted daily loss limit, my account balance and equity was more than 100k. And the trades by which I violoted all had stop loss in place. ( It is only the trades by which the daily loss limit got violated had stop loss, trades prior to that ....some had stops and some not : I traded more than 10 days. Mr. Kane refused to pay. I asked for reasons, but not replied. And in my view, because of this reason, I put down myforexfunds rating, for sure. Hope Mr. Yavuz from MFF reads this and takes suitable...

did MFF scam you or you violate some rules? I want to go for the 100k but scared this guys can just run away with my profit % are they for real?
MY OPINION NOT FINANCIAL ADVISE
  • #8,578
  • Jun 18, 2022 1:04pm Jun 18, 2022 1:04pm
Quoting Takisd
{quote} tbh i wish those rules were in the evaluation phases. It would most certainly help in making the prop firm market be more real. At some point in time all of these companies will die because of the mentality of its traders and the inability (yes its inability) to send traders who trade like this to the market. If they did, it would take like 2 weeks to bankrupt one of them from the amount of loss they would get. You cannot appropriately analyze a good trader from a bad if a trader is always all in with no stop losses and sending the flow...
I agree 100%. The entire point, for me, of using props, is to have as much funding as possible in order to trade WITH LOWER RISK, so I can earn more than I could on my own personal account with higher risk.
If you max 4-5 of these companies and are sitting at like 2 million, why on earth are you "all-in"? You can trade so ridiculously small that you will never be in danger of losing the account(s) and still bank half a mil per year. Passing the challenges to get there is another story..............
  • #8,579
  • Jun 18, 2022 1:19pm Jun 18, 2022 1:19pm
Quoting Takisd
{quote} Hes referring to the guys who go in profit then violate on the live account after evaluation. But have no stop losses, are all in, rise up then violate daily drawdown rules not getting 50% profit split because they have no stops or not enough trading days. I suspect the majority of these cases are no stops. But there are like 100's of reports from people who obey the rules and violate but get the 50%. So yeh.. To me the whole 50% argument is mute, because I make sure I dont violate daily (If I am going down its on overall) and because my...
Ah, I saw the 50% and automatically jumped to the conclusion he was on the accelerated direct funding.
  • #8,580
  • Edited 4:51pm Jun 18, 2022 1:25pm | Edited 4:51pm
Only maybe good direct funding model I found is Finotive Funding. The aggresive version.

$10000 account cost $660 and maximum daily DD is 10%. Maximum DD is 16%

Profit split is 60%.
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